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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: The lore thread
Thread: The lore thread This thread is 44 pages long: 1 10 20 ... 24 25 26 27 28 ... 30 40 44 · «PREV / NEXT»
Marzhin
Marzhin

Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
posted August 26, 2015 04:32 PM

Avonu said:
@Marzhin
Can I post your answers to my lore questions from Celestial Heavens from years before?
And can you answer to newer ones (I even don't remember what I asked you in few last PMs)?


Sure. I haven't checked my PM box on CH in a while. I'll have a look when I have the time.

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Avonu
Avonu


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
posted August 26, 2015 04:32 PM

Thanks
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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 26, 2015 04:33 PM

Marzhin said:
verriker said:
lol


No relation to the topic at hand, I've been wondering for a while, can you make a post that doesn't end with "lol"?

He can, but those end with a huehuehue instead
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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted August 26, 2015 04:36 PM

Marzhin said:
"Reframing past events" does suggest that said past events are altered, if not in facts, at least in meaning.


well see dude you would be reframing the known lore if you introduced civilizations down in the Shrouded South, correct me but I don't believe those were ever mentioned by anyone in games so far and therefore would be new lol

Marzhin said:
No relation to the topic at hand, I've been wondering for a while, can you make a post that doesn't end with "lol"?


if you can convince Ubisoft to stop saying "hello Heroes" and "discover" I will promise to stop saying "lol" hue hue hue
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sandro400
sandro400


Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
posted August 26, 2015 04:41 PM

verriker said:
if you can convince Ubisoft to stop saying "hello Heroes" and "discover" I will promise to stop saying "lol" hue hue hue


Not fair. You ask them to stop saying 2 things in exchange for you stop saying 1 thing. ^^
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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 26, 2015 04:44 PM

verriker said:
Marzhin said:
"Reframing past events" does suggest that said past events are altered, if not in facts, at least in meaning.


well see dude you would be reframing the known lore if you introduced civilizations down in the Shrouded South, correct me but I don't believe those were ever mentioned by anyone in games so far and therefore would be new lol

Maybe we are yet to *discover* them?
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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted August 26, 2015 04:45 PM

sandro400 said:
Not fair. You ask them to stop saying 2 things in exchange for you stop saying 1 thing. ^^


well hey what can I say, it's a higher price because I don't like things to change, I'm a conservative fan and what I want is what I've played before lol
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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted August 26, 2015 04:47 PM
Edited by LizardWarrior at 16:47, 26 Aug 2015.

Verriker will stop saying "lol" and "hue hue hue" if Erwan joins HC

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Avonu
Avonu


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
posted August 26, 2015 04:48 PM
Edited by Avonu at 16:50, 26 Aug 2015.

verriker said:
well hey what can I say, it's a higher price because I don't like things to change, I'm a conservative fan and what I want is what I've played before lol


SOA#1 at Shadow Council: So go and play them instead!

Seriously, thanks a lot for giving these kind of arguments to Ubisoft.


LizardWarrior said:
Verriker will stop saying "lol" and "hue hue hue" if Erwan joins HC

*looks at lol-a-lot's avatar* Isn't he here already?
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GenyaArikado
GenyaArikado


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted August 26, 2015 04:49 PM

verriker said:
Marzhin said:
It's only a retcon if you change/replace something established in the lore, not if you add something new.


grab a dictionary mate, the original/literal definition of retroactive continuity means reframing past events with addition of new facts, it is actually not always a case of contradiction or revision lol


you dont even read what you post, do you? lol

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sandro400
sandro400


Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
posted August 26, 2015 04:50 PM
Edited by sandro400 at 16:53, 26 Aug 2015.

LizardWarrior said:
Verriker will stop saying "lol" and "hue hue hue" if Erwan joins HC


I believe he will start saying some "other" things if Erwan joins HC, and I'm not even sure if I want to hear them. ^^

@Verriker, you don't like things to change but then ask Ubisoft to change their greeting and one of the key words...

I'm offering a better deal: will you stop saying "lol" if Erwan stops saying "Ashan" in every video? ^^
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Marzhin
Marzhin

Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
posted August 26, 2015 04:51 PM

LizardWarrior said:
Verriker will stop saying "lol" and "hue hue hue" if Erwan joins HC


Who says he's not lurking already?

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Pawek_13
Pawek_13


Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
posted August 26, 2015 04:54 PM
Edited by Pawek_13 at 16:56, 26 Aug 2015.

Marzhin said:
LizardWarrior said:
Verriker will stop saying "lol" and "hue hue hue" if Erwan joins HC


Who says he's not lurking already?

Is he?

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted August 26, 2015 04:59 PM

sandro400 said:
I'm offering a better deal: will you stop saying "lol" if Erwan stops saying "Ashan" in every video? ^^


tempting but I'd have to decline, I love hearing Erwin Le Breton™, creator of Might & Magic®, tell us all about the world of Ashan™ the world of Might & Magic® since 1986 lol
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sandro400
sandro400


Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
posted August 26, 2015 05:01 PM
Edited by sandro400 at 17:02, 26 Aug 2015.

verriker said:
tempting but I'd have to decline, I love hearing Erwin Le Breton™, creator of Might & Magic®, tell us all about the world of Ashan™ the world of Might & Magic® since 1986 lol


So sad. This was a great proposal.
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Marzhin
Marzhin

Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
posted August 26, 2015 05:12 PM

verriker said:
I love hearing Erwin Le Breton™, creator of Might & Magic®, tell us all about the world of Ashan™ the world of Might & Magic® since 1986 lol


Now that's just bad faith, Erwan never pretended to be the creator of Might & Magic nor that Ashan existed since 1986.

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Avonu
Avonu


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Embracing light and darkness
posted August 26, 2015 05:35 PM
Edited by Avonu at 11:25, 30 Aug 2015.

OK, here is more lore from my PMs with Marhin and others via Celestial Heavens but first:

Few words about Ashan's development from story writers

about Shantiri Empire
"Marzhin" said:
1. The Shantiri Empire is pretty much the Ashan equivalent of Atlantis, and like Atlantis it is shrouded in mystery for now.
My understanding is that it was an oligarchy ruled by a conclave of high-priests (probably one per Dragon God + a church of Asha).
Sar-Elam and his disciples' quest to go beyond the Dragon Gods was seen as heresy by the Shantiri, hence the hostility.
Note that these are just theories for no



about Sveltana's bio and Angels' Seven Swords
"Marzhin" said:
Both Adventure Packs take place in the year just after H6, so 565 YSD.
The Mother Namtaru was found 15 years before Slava's birth, so around 505 YSD.

Sveltana was older than Pavel, so she was in her 20s when her brother was born and she was free to go to the Seven Cities.
EDIT: she was 15 when Pavel was born.
As for the "soon"... Well, define "soon" for an immortal, ageless Necromancer

So while I don't think there are "exact" dates, the rough chronology is something like this:

505 YSD: Sveltana accompanies Aguirre in his quest to find the Mother Namtaru. Sandro is exiled.
520 YSD: Pavel dies. Sveltana returns to become regent of the Duchy and raise his son Slava.
540 YSD: Slava becomes the Duke and participates in the Elven Wars (the MM graphic novel).
541 YSD: Birth of Sandor.
543 YSD: Birth of Anton.
544 YSD: Birth of Irina.
546 YSD: Birth of Anastasya and Kiril.
550 YSD: Events of the Prologue map
564 YSD: Slava dies. Second Eclipse, all that jazz.
565 YSD: Adventure Packs.

About Michael, the whole plan with the Seven Swords and the dynasties was to "imbue" humans so they would make good vessels for bringing back dead angels. With each passing generation, the humans become better attuned to the angelic souls (thank to the Seven Swords that "keep" part of the essence of each wielder and "transmits" it to the next). The more powerful the angel, the more generations you need before a proper vessel. So Michael (the most powerful of them all) was brought back last.



about Ishtvan and Pavel deaths
"Marzhin" said:
Well who actually poisoned Ishtvan is open to interpretation and conjecture
But AFAIK the Angels had nothing to do with Pavel's death. If anything the death was orchestrated by Ahribban as a way to force the Angels' hand and plant the seed of hatred in the Empire.



about Shantiri and necromancy
"Marzhin" said:
"Avonu" said:
As far as we know, necromancy started with Belketh. But was there any kind of necromancy before, long ago and forgotten or it is new art?
Another question about that - before Seventh Dragon and Cult of Spider Godess was there any kind to become immortal or at least live/survive few hundreds years? I mean is there a way that someone born in Shantiri Empire still lived by present times? I don't speak about long-living races like Angels, Faceless or Elves but about let say Humans. Of course without become Succubus or other Demon.

It is actually a discussion we had in the past. My own stance on that topic is that the Shantiri did worship Asha in her spider form, so they probably had some kind of knowledge of necromancy, at least the "lighter" stuff (talking to ghosts, etc.) It was probably done during religious rituals.
However it is unlikely (though not impossible) there were Shantiri Liches or Vampires for instance.
There are no "living" immortals from the Shantiri Empire roaming Ashan, unfortunately. Which, coupled with the destruction wrought during the Elder Wars, is why their culture is slowly being forgotten.



about Bluebeak
Marzhin" said:
Avonu" said:
IIRC Bluebeak is a she and was a girl in previous life. Does Bluebeak has her own story?

Bluebeak was really Kurt McClung's character. I think he has written a detailed backstory for the bird, and is only waiting for the opportunity to tell it.

EDIT:
Bluebeak backstory will be part of HoMM7 Academy's campaign.


about Sandro age
Marzhin" said:
Avonu" said:
How old is Sandro durning Danse Macabre? He says about 100 years but even he isn't sure (or doesn't want to tell us ).

On my notes, I put Sandro's birth date in 444 YSD. Which makes him 122 by the time of Danse Macabre.



about the Naga
Marzhin" said:
The Ashan Compendium lists the third race as the Lake Nagas: "average in size (measuring around 6 feet tall when coiled, and 10 feet long to the tip of their tail. Their scales are of a pale blue-green colour, with brighter streaks, and their faces are more ophidian than those of the Coral Nagas. They are found in lakes, large rivers, and marshes."
I think Olivier Ledroit's "Naga Geisha" is supposed to be a Lake Naga (although I'll have to ask Erwan for confirmation).
The Shanriya Nagas are just another clan of Nagas, not a separate species.

About your last question, I think Erwan was referring to the fact the Nagas were part of the Shantiri Empire until the Elder Wars, when they escaped the Empire's destruction and retreated "into the ice floes* and the ocean depths**, echewing all relations with the untrustworthy servant races of the other Dragon Gods." (the Compendium again). So that would be the birth of the Sanctuary faction proper (and also explains its name).

* That would be the Shanriya Nagas
** That would be the Lotus Empire Nagas.


about Heart of Darkness map
Marzhin" said:
Avonu" said:
Haffayad a.k.a. Nathaniel - he has own model (head) and his previous description said he was captain of expedition with Aguirre and Svetlana.
I know that he was mainly test character but is there any story behind these changes?

Haffayad was originally supposed to be the hero of the Heart of Darkness map. Later on, it was decided it was better to use that map to give more depth to Sveltana by making her Aguirre's apprentice. So Haffayad became another character. We added a line in his bio saying he was bitter for having been replaced by Sveltana, it was actually a in-joke about the fact we replaced him.



about Sheogh
Marzhin" said:
Avonu" said:
Inferno 1st map:

"Xana: A thousand years ago, Azkaal ruled these lands as the Prince of Destruction. Tor-Berith now controls his territories. He's just angry that the legions of Pain now control what once belonged to Destruction."

2. Inferno 3rd map:

"Azkaal: Cyclops. In my day they were demons, living on the surface. Now they are condemned to live without a dragon."

Abouth Sheogh: Sheogh was an actual, physical place in the center of Ashan before it was moved "out of phase" by Sar-Elam. So it's not surprising that Azkaal recognizes some areas.

About the Cyclops: in the "Ashan Monster Manual", one of the reference documents we use when writing a M&M game, there is a legend in the chapter about Cyclopes telling there used to be gigantic, one-eyed demons that were the "architects" of the infernal realms (although what Demons mean by architecture is an ever-changing topic ). The Cyclops inherited some characteristics of these Demons, including the "eye of urgash".
I think the writer chose to make reference to that story with Azkaal's line.
I have no idea what happened to the original one-eyed Demons though. Maybe they evolved into something else. Maybe Urgash destroyed them when he grew tired of their buildings. Maybe we'll see them again in a future game, or maybe, as Azkaal implies, they actually managed to escape Sheogh through their blood.



about Wars of Creation
Marzhin" said:
Avonu" said:
After Wars of Creation ended, Faceless attacked Angels and alloved Demons to escape to corners of Ashan. Next demons re-emarge during Shantiri Empire and attacked Angels sky cities. They were defeated by Michael and co. and Azkaal was imprisoned in artifact (thx to Lamia). Next Angels started their crusade and Shaniri Empire collapsed.

Yep that's it.
Keep in mind that Shades of Darkness' last map is set in the Spirit World where the memories of several characters have been mixep-up. Azkaal was maybe not present in the Wars of Creation, and his presence at the head of the chaos armies might be just a mix-up of several, distinct memories. In any case this map is not supposed to be taken as face value.



about a wizard from 3rd Vein's map
Marzhin" said:
Avonu" said:
Legends tell the tale of an island split in two by a Wizard looking to bring back his sister from the Spirit World. His sister did not return, but two other sisters of tremendous Dark power did. They ordered the Wizard to marry them and give them both children. The Wizard is said to have bested them, and placed their remains, one on each of the islands, in such a manner that they might never reunite their powers.

While I didn't write that map the Wizard mentionned in that map is indeed meant to be Sandro/Alejandro. But once again, it's a folk tale, not necessarily the real story



about Dwarves' kings
Marzhin" said:
Hathor Orlandsson had a short but rather eventful rule (his victory against the Dark Elves led him to become King, but he was really a "Might makes right" kind of ruler and that means trouble). He is eventually succeeded by Haegeir, who is then succeeded by Tolghar. As for the exact dates, they are not set in stone yet. Despite the fact Dwarves are losing the vote I still have hopes of fleshing out the Dwarves' history in the future ^

EDIT:
"In the meantime I replayed the "Iron Throne" map from H5 and noted that Tolghar actually succeeds Haegeir as warlord of the Grimsteel clan, not as King under the Mountain. So Tolghar became Warlord of Grimsteel after Haegeir's death, and, after that, succeeded Hathor as King under the Mountain. Haegeir was never King under the Mountain as far as I can tell after rechecking all the facts."


about Raiders of MM
Marzhin" said:
IIRC the battle of Hammer Fall (Raiders' story) took place 4 years before Heroes VI, so 15 years before MMXL, around 564 YSD. Jon Morgan's business in Hammer Fall happened later and was unrelated to the events of Raiders, but he did meet some of its heroes (including Zouleika and Owen).



about Throne of Reneval
Marzhin" said:
Avonu" said:
It was mentioned in MMX that Crag Hack capture this Shantiri artifact for Sandro from Imperial Expedition - is this supposed to happened during Raiders or is not related to that game?

It happens in 563 YSD IIRC, somewhere between Raiders and Pirates of the Savage Sea/Danse Macabre. The unearthing of Shantiri Ruins near Hammer Fall and the artefacts discovered there (some of them "confiscated" by the Inquisition) were to play a big part in Raiders' story (hence the "Raiders of the Lost Ark" theme implied by the title).



about Dwarven King Tolghar
Marzhin" said:
Avonu" said:
It's me or Tolghar name is very similar to Thorgal?

always assumed Tolghar was a mix between Tolga (Turkish name which means "raising of the war helmet") and Thorgal. I think Jeff Spock chose this name, so only he knows the truth



about fundation of Holy Falcon Empire
Marzhin" said:
Ronan united the clans, but it took time to stop the infighting, and when Ronan died it could easily have imploded. Uniting the Empire under one religion is how Brain managed to keep the duchies united and in peace - and the swords also helped him with that.



about War Under the Mountains
Marzhin" said:
Avonu" said:
If I understand correctly, Hathor Deepstider is the one who crushed Dark Elves and won War Under the Mountains.
So how it is that after Dark Elves were defeated and driven off, rest of Ashan now recognize them as another nation?

Before the War under the Mountains, it was not clear what was going on underground. The Dark Elf leaders had made no official contact or sent ambassadors to the other nations. The only ones truly aware of their existence were the Dwarves, and they are not the most talkative of races.
After the war, there was an armistice, and that meant treatises to define the new borders with the Dwarven kingdom, etc. That's when Ygg-Chall became "official".



about hero Lamia
Marzhin" said:
Avonu" said:
As far as I know, she is the oldest of succubus in Sheogh, turned to Chaos during Shantiri Empire age. You told me, there is unfortunately no one living, who remember Shantiri Empire. What about Demons, Faceless, Angels, Eternal Empress and her? Is really Void magic ereased all memories of this empire as it is suggested in MMX?

Nobody remembers exactly what happened to the Shantiri Empire. Make of that what you will
I think it's funnier to have many theories lying around and let the fans debate what really happened. Maybe the Shantiris were abducted by the Ancients



about Ygg-Chall name
Marzhin" said:
Avonu" said:
What is true meaning of Ygg-Chall? Home Below or Darkness Below? After all Dark in Elven language is Mal (as Malassa).

Well "sanctuary" and "haven" are synonyms It's actually a problem in some languages. I seem to recall the Spanish or Italian translations of Heroes have translated Haven (the faction) as their equivalent of the word "Sanctuary", and so they had to find another word in H6 for the Naga Faction...

Anyway, if I refer to the Elf dictionary, Ygg-Chall = the Home Below, or the Refuge/Sanctuary/Haven Below. "The Dark Below" might be a nickname rather than the actual translation.



about Sheogh capital city
Marzhin" said:
Avonu" said:
One of six Demon Overlords was Ur-Hekal, DO of Hate.
Now, when children of Urgash disappeared and Kha-Beleth became Demon Sovereign, capital of Sheogh became... Ur-Hekal, "Gate of the Burning Heart".
Another mistake, use of same name in lore without double checking or there were some reason behind naming Demon capital city as one of Overlords?

That's actually a very good question But I have no answer to it right now. I don't think it's a coincidence though.



about Sar-Shazzar corruption
Marzhin" said:
Avonu" said:
And speaking of Kha-Beleth, do you know, if old lore from Dark Messiah, about Sar-Shazzar being corrupted by Demon Soverign is still valid, or it was also changed? After all there is known only one Demon Sovereign in Ashan history and it's Kha-Beleth. Maybe it was mistype at DM's page and it should be written Demon Overlords?

The phrase on DM's page meant that if someone says Demon Sovereign it refers to Kha-Beleth, there is no other.
Sar-Shazzar's corruption is still canonical, although not many people in-universe are aware of it.



about Ashan age
Marzhin" said:
Avonu" said:
How really old is Ashan?

As far as I can tell, millions, billions of years, just like any planet. The Mythic Age was very very long



Big thanks for Marzhin for his time and his explanations (not to mention about his patient for me and my questions during these few years ).
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"Details are everything."
Pipiru piru piru pipiru pi!

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted August 26, 2015 05:35 PM

Marzhin said:
Now that's just bad faith, Erwan never pretended to be the creator of Might & Magic nor that Ashan existed since 1986.


not to be all Ranier Wolfcastle style "that's the joke" but I think that's what is regarded as a sarcastic caricature,

you see some of the things he says (like "[Ashan] is a lot like life as we know it and you'll gonna ask for more", "play [H6] for as long as you have played Heroes 3, or 5, and we're confident you will understand our choices, and love this game as much, if not more, than its predecessors", "you propose to the fans what they want and what they want is what they’ve played before with more beautiful visuals", etc) are considered so outlandish that this statement would not necessarily be too out of place in comparison, hope that explains the angle for you lol

I would kind of rather we not derail the topic into waging Erwin wars with Ubi associates though, maybe we can return to some focus on the lore aspect lol
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sandro400
sandro400


Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
posted August 26, 2015 05:54 PM

Thanks to Marzhin and Avonu for this Q&A (although, given how old it is, some questions were already answered or outdated (the 3 moons theme). Still, great!
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Marzhin
Marzhin

Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
posted August 26, 2015 05:58 PM

Avonu said:
about Dwarves' kings
Marzhin" said:
Hathor Orlandsson had a short but rather eventful rule (his victory against the Dark Elves led him to become King, but he was really a "Might makes right" kind of ruler and that means trouble). He is eventually succeeded by Haegeir, who is then succeeded by Tolghar. As for the exact dates, they are not set in stone yet. Despite the fact Dwarves are losing the vote I still have hopes of fleshing out the Dwarves' history in the future ^



In the meantime I replayed the "Iron Throne" map from H5 and noted that Tolghar actually succeeds Haegeir as warlord of the Grimsteel clan, not as King under the Mountain. So Tolghar became Warlord of Grimsteel after Haegeir's death, and, after that, succeeded Hathor as King under the Mountain. Haegeir was never King under the Mountain as far as I can tell after rechecking all the facts.

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