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| Thread: Steam Workshop now lets modders sell their Skyrim mods for real money |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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husham123
Famous Hero
Yes
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posted April 25, 2015 01:31 PM |
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Well, Steam Crew is really selfish. They ask for money for everything, maybe the only free game is Team Fortress 2  . Besides, there is a core of truth in what most of you say. It needs money to make nice mods. But, you could learn how to do mods, and pay money to get your own program, and make your own mods. But some peoples got different things to do. For example, in Heroes III, the HotA Crew worked LOTS to get that awsome add-on, but some other peoples just map-edited using the map editor. Now you understand ?
It is very chaotic how peoples see things. Some say it is bad, some say it is good, but is there a way to make everyone happy ?
For example, the modding tools to be free, and so not to ask money on mods. It would fix everything.
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What the darn-diddily-doodily did you just say about me, you little witcharooney? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class at Springfield Bible College, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret
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Kareeah_Indaga
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 25, 2015 04:15 PM |
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OhforfSake said:
But weren't you modding in the first place due to other reasons than money and won't money then just be a potential added bonus, like a kind of 'thank you for your hard work, effort and time'?
They already had 'donate' buttons for that. The point of making a mod should not be for profit. The point of making a GAME should not be solely for profit; the point is to make something people will enjoy in their spare time. Money for the company is a necessary evil to keep a roof over the devs' heads while they make the game: a tool to keep things running smoothly, NOT the end in and of itself.
But the moment you start REQUIRING people to pay for a thing, you start looking at the bottom line and only the bottom line. You start churning out content because you want more shinies and not because you want other people to have fun. This goes for a LOT of products and services, not just games, and when companies forget that they exist to fill a niche for customers and making money is just a useful by-product is when their customer service plummets. And then people leave, and your company is surprised because, wait, you mean those people did NOT just exist to pour gold into our coffers??? And then new companies replace them and we start all over.
But here, we have hoards and hoards of people who see a window for money and don't even have the safeguards a company would have in place to make sure the products they're making are good quality.
OhforfSake said:
Beside, I think it'll be easier to get profit by having more knowledge, hence it'd make more sense for everyone to still share their ideas, so that everyone has an easier time creating what they are aiming for.
Except that isn't how it works. IF every modder out there was trying to create something completely unique from every other modder and IF every modder was essentially a good, honest person, it might.
But they're not. How many magic overhaul mods are there? Six? Ten? A hundred? I know there are at least two 'fixes' for the Paarthurnax quest. How many combat-enhancing mods are there? Mods to make your character prettier? There is a LOT of overlap out there. What sets them apart? The skill and knowledge of the people making them.
Take the following scenario:
I'm making a combat mod. I know how to do things with swords, axes, and bows.
You are also making a combat mod. You know how to do things with swords, axes, and shields.
We both have roughly the same level of skill, dedication, and time, and both our mods have about the same impact on the game. Because they're both affecting combat in similar ways, it is not possible to have both mods active at the same time. Some people might prefer one of our mods over the other, but on the whole, we get the same amount of attention.
Then you ask me, "Kareeah, that thing you do with bows is really cool, how do you do that?"
Previously if I answered you, then yes, you could now make your mod a little bit better than mine, and I might lose a few subscribers, but unless I'm a complete attention hog I probably don't care. It isn't going to keep me from going on a nice vacation or affect my next car payment if I tell you what you want to know. You win, but I don't lose.
Now, however, if I lose subscribers (assuming all other things are equal and we're both charging for the mods) I lose money. If I tell you how to do things with bows, and you don't tell me how to do things with shields, your mod will be better and I have no way to make up the difference. You win; I lose.
TL: DR version: You're half right. It's easier for YOU to get profit if YOU have more knowledge than everyone else, not if everyone has more knowledge.
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Adventures in Helnith has moved!
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 25, 2015 04:47 PM |
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Donate button is a joke. Baratorch (the designer of Heroes III HD mod) told me he didn't receive even 1 dollar in 3 years from donate, while is available on his mod box window. And 90% of players use intensively his mod.
I think that Biscuit guy from the video nailed it well: modders never asked for money because it was not legally possible. But every work should be paid, that's how real life works. Unless the author doesn't care.
I took a look at Steam forums and I find relevant that those being violently against are those who never modded (their files # are available from profiles). Then guys with files to share are much more reserved. Personally I believe the modder's choice should be respected, now that he HAS the choice.
Then the sharing 25/75 part is scandalous, but we get used to how capitalism works. Up to you to hurry, buy and by this give them reasons to push even more. I for one will never buy a mod within such conditions.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Darkshadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted April 25, 2015 04:52 PM |
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Though gonna point out that the workshop has never been the, or even a, main hub for modding this, a lot of people have mods over on Nexus that have been never uploaded to the workshop hence it's not actually possible to tell who actually is a modder and who is not.
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husham123
Famous Hero
Yes
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posted April 25, 2015 04:56 PM |
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Salamandre said:
I for one will never buy a mod in this conditions
Nor do I
Yes, we all know. The Donate button just donates, not gives back. And really, it is chaotic to hear that it costs money to make a mod or to buy it ! Sincerely, modding a game, and getting money, without the permission at least of the producer, and/or the team is illegal, and would be better NEVER be allowed. Onto this, it is not the real life. A game is a game. It allows you to spare time, and wait, and not get bored. It isn't like I will ever pay money to mod a game. The torrents are really awsome though. What am I saying is that buying games merits, even if it doesn't help you though in Real Life (if we are not talking about not to get bored, or to spare time). But to mod it would be way easy if anyone could get the tools.
But, you could ''pay''. It means donating to the modders at least to speed up.
I want you look at what I did sayd, and take the good part, not the bad part.
P.S: It isn't worth it to pay for a mod, but to pay for a game.
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What the darn-diddily-doodily did you just say about me, you little witcharooney? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class at Springfield Bible College, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 25, 2015 04:58 PM |
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husham123 said:
I want you understand what I did sayd,
Looks to me that Ghost's brother joined HC. 
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Era II mods and utilities
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husham123
Famous Hero
Yes
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posted April 25, 2015 05:03 PM |
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I wonder how much will you keep talking to me about users I never heard about, and hunting spelling mistakes, who by the meaning was:
husham123 said:
I want you to try to understand what am I saying in a good way, not in a bad way
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What the darn-diddily-doodily did you just say about me, you little witcharooney? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class at Springfield Bible College, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 25, 2015 05:03 PM |
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Darkshadow said:
it's not actually possible to tell who actually is a modder and who is not.
Is a matter of common sense. I hardly see a modder being vocal against this, while it only offers him a simple alternative. He still has the choice.
Gamers, on the other side, will go berserk, those who were used to get everything for free now feel the danger.
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Era II mods and utilities
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husham123
Famous Hero
Yes
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posted April 25, 2015 05:06 PM |
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Well, some peoples aren't rich. They only have money to buy games, buy the network, and to get a computer. Further to pay for each mods you will sure run out of money. Some don't have a good condition, Sala, you have to understand this.
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What the darn-diddily-doodily did you just say about me, you little witcharooney? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class at Springfield Bible College, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted April 25, 2015 05:09 PM |
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Trying to argue what will and will not motivate people is a hard line to argue. This issue goes all the was back to Plato lol, he was annoyed that there were people were only motivated by money, when they should be trying to express themselves through creation and the skills which they hone and love.
But I think Marx has it right, common people in this day and age work to survive, and they have no sense of ownership nor any connection to the produce of their creation, they make the same crap, to the same specification. So long as the resources we need to survive are commodities, food, water and housing, the common people will always have to work to survive, and that is no way to live. Real work is not a chore, it is not something that one should ever desire to avoid once he has ample amount of money. Work is an expression of yourself, your will to create and to shape that we all have, this modern society is truly sick when it turns your nature into something to be loathed and your creation into uniform mundane objects without personal connections. Look at swords smithed by a master swordsmith, something wonderful is felt when holding one that you do not get from even the best replica, objects created with love have a transient personality.
So yes, modders should not be motivated by payment, but creating mods requires an insane amount of work, I know, I used to spend 10 hour streaks coding and just revamping things, and that was in my spare time. I think that is a key thing to note, I did it in my spare time.
Thus, in reality this Valve policy is a transition from modding being a hobby to an occupation. We've seen this before on youtube, Angryjoe one of my fav game reviewers quit is old job to make a living off his youtube content. Or look at the likes of FPSrussia and the rest, that make a living from shooting guns and showcasing them.
I have refrained from posting about my views here 'til actually formed some, while I hate capitalism I have to say I really agree with this. The move forward is not to stem profiteering, or to destroy the stable institutions that uphold it. You create the ideal world by supporting jobs and laborious activities that are not chores, and their production is a joyous (if labourious) activity, and the produce is equally loved (sounds like the gaming industry, or at least some of the great companies). It is true though that some people will make mods with the sole motivation of making money, but what kind of mod would that produce? Someone who is modding for money is never going to have the creative mindset that yielded some of our greatest mods (and sad to say hidden ones too, there are so many amazing un-uploaded content out there). There are thousands of mods that I can wholeheartedly say were made professionally with a lot of affection, and these people that made such wonderous things are not going to suddenly produce content for money, and if they did it would show.
To wrap it up, in the end I wholeheartedly support a new job market that is wholly creative and inspires people to improve or to change their world, albeit a virtual one. This is exactly the kind of thing we need, the kind of thing we should have been taught at school, the desire to improve our world and then actually making it a reality, and then, sharing it with everyone. The price tag is not ideal, nor is the Valve's greed, but this is the reality we have to face in a capitalist society, but it helps to support this wonderous new development which inspires our creative nature, and which will hopefully one day bring down the system that thinks that material wealth is a quality to be admired. That's like saying the person in Skyrim who can make most money is the most brilliant. Money is not something desired, it is only so because we live in a society where the items required for our survival are commodities, take that away and the common people's untapped creative nature will be unleashed.
HOWEVER, Valve has failed to actually work up a legal framework in order to institutionalise what they are doing, which is bad, really bad. It gives the impression that they lack common sense, as they are bringing out something that is obviously controversial without having clearly thought it through. In this I agree Valve has screwed up, but the fundementals of this new policy I support, which is the selling of mods and its implications, provided the core concerns with this new market are properly addressed. Namely: the unjust greed of Valve, the inclusion of third party animations and texture mods in a mod for sale, and the issue of the selling of unfinished or work in progress mods (this is a big issue with Ealry Access Games), finally the issue of legal ownership for content and theft of it (Jaysus is a good example of a legally savvy modder). These are some obvious problems that Valve has not addressed, till they do I cannot condone what they are doing.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Darkshadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted April 25, 2015 05:15 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Darkshadow said:
it's not actually possible to tell who actually is a modder and who is not.
Is a matter of common sense. I hardly see a modder being vocal against this, while it only offers him a simple alternative. He still has the choice.
Gamers, on the other side, will go berserk, those who were used to get everything for free now feel the danger.
There's been modders against this on Nexus, as well
Buuuut, I don't think mature people in general will be the ones screaming and writing death threats
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husham123
Famous Hero
Yes
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posted April 25, 2015 05:18 PM |
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Well, I think I spare 16 hours on computer, but I ask nothing. Only the fame makes me feel proud of my wokr
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What the darn-diddily-doodily did you just say about me, you little witcharooney? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class at Springfield Bible College, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret
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Kareeah_Indaga
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 25, 2015 05:38 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Donate button is a joke. Baratorch (the designer of Heroes III HD mod) told me he didn't receive even 1 dollar in 3 years from donate, while is available on his mod box window. And 90% of players use intensively his mod.
I DM'd Helnith for years and I couldn't even get my players to pay attention. It was still one of the best things I've ever done. If he's modding only for money he should be pursuing a career in game design instead; it's more efficient. If he's not modding for money it shouldn't bother him.
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Adventures in Helnith has moved!
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted April 25, 2015 05:55 PM |
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Corribus said:
but they weren't reaping anything directly from it.
Your whole post was spot on for me Corribus but I want to hit this again.
This single issue is driving the topic of this thread just like it started with our beloved HoMM and the killing off of the mapping/modding community; before (as you said) becoming serious roadblocks that created brand new penny-pinching ways.
The new "Squeezing" is waaay out of hand now. i.e. Charging 5 bucks to get a few tunes...since they released the game with one song that wraps. I detest how blatant they are with their greed and how little they believe they will profit if they support the communities that bolster their products.
Heck if a person thinks about all of this for a second; if a game company hooks a person than said person is like paying an extra water-bill every month, to get a whole freakin' game. Talking about commitment; "Yeah buddy I'm buying <insert your game> on "their three-year-installment-plan. Just last week I got the first minute of the main Theme. Two more weeks and I can hear the whole glorious tune...in one sitting!" 
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 25, 2015 07:18 PM |
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Quote:
Money for the company is a necessary evil to keep a roof over the devs' heads while they make the game: a tool to keep things running smoothly, NOT the end in and of itself.
Though actually it is kinda the end in and of itself. You need money to run a company. You often get that money from creditors. If the business fails, people lose jobs and money, so if you care about them, you do your best so it doesn't happen.
The problem is creditors think they owe to be rewarded for the risk they took. They want their money back and more. It doesn't matter if your business fails, you will fail alone, and pay them til the end of your life if needed. You just have to look at medias, repaying your debts have become the holiest duty, even if it means whole population have to fall into poverty.
Salamandre said:
Donate button is a joke. Baratorch (the designer of Heroes III HD mod) told me he didn't receive even 1 dollar in 3 years from donate, while is available on his mod box window. And 90% of players use intensively his mod.
I think that Biscuit guy from the video nailed it well: modders never asked for money because it was not legally possible. But every work should be paid, that's how real life works. Unless the author doesn't care.
if people won't pay for it, it should be taken into account. we know a lot of people don't pay anymore for artists' works, so as long as money is required to live, we should find a way to compensate them, while everyone get their stuff for free. that would likely requires crucial changes to the economic system, socialism isn't exactly the norm right now.
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Kareeah_Indaga
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 25, 2015 08:18 PM |
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One good thing came out of all this. I found out Falskaar is on Steam now, and it's still free! 
Fauch said:
Quote:
Money for the company is a necessary evil to keep a roof over the devs' heads while they make the game: a tool to keep things running smoothly, NOT the end in and of itself.
Though actually it is kinda the end in and of itself. You need money to run a company.
I think we agree with each other and we're just saying it in different ways. 
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Adventures in Helnith has moved!
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 25, 2015 08:20 PM |
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If we had a mod then it goes money, we can still play it or there is some block in nexus mod manager?
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Darkshadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted April 25, 2015 08:36 PM |
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Salamandre said:
If we had a mod then it goes money, we can still play it or there is some block in nexus mod manager?
Nope, no blocks
Also on that note, I wish them good luck in their impossible fight against blackbeard on that 
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husham123
Famous Hero
Yes
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posted April 25, 2015 08:45 PM |
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How's about adding the moders' name in a sort of credits in the game, or on the official forum. Most of the games have an official forum. For example, Heroes has HC, Land Of The Dead has Rising Dead, Rome Total War has the Official Forum, but what does Skirym have ?
I agree, you need money for your life. But though, modding is only a hobby. I for example have a life outside this forum. But I can have time to check it too.
Anyways, good luck fighting the modding-costs-money thing. I am supporting you day and night 
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What the darn-diddily-doodily did you just say about me, you little witcharooney? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class at Springfield Bible College, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 25, 2015 09:24 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Donate button is a joke.
I think you're wrong on this one. Personally I've never donated before solely because I wasn't entitled to my own money, not to mention a credit card. But now that things changed I am much more open to donating, subscribing and otherwise supporting a content creator for his/her work. Even here on this forum the HC supporter status, which I know you loathe for some reason, is proof of that.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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