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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Homm Visual Aspects
Thread: Homm Visual Aspects This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT»
Wellplay
Wellplay


Famous Hero
Poland Stronk
posted August 11, 2015 01:57 PM

frostymuaddib said:
Dies_Irae said:
It's too easy to bring mods to the party. Of course, fans have changed things over time and added stuff that didn't exist in the official release. But I focused on the official content, and the official H3 does not have the recruit-all feature.

I don't think it's valid to use a mod as a counter-argument. A mod is by definition not official. Yes, Ubi can learn (and probably did when they implemented Town Conversion in H6), but still.


I suggest that you also use mods for Ubi's HoMM games as part of arguments. IMO, mods are essential part of Heroes games, so I don't see anything wrong in using them when comparing games.


Oh yeah cause Ubi HoMM has so many mods that comparing them would be bloody fair.

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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted August 11, 2015 02:07 PM bonus applied by Maurice on 21 Mar 2016.
Edited by LizardWarrior at 14:13, 11 Aug 2015.

Oh, Dies, you seem to be more biased towards heroes 6 than the whole Enorthian party are towards h3 together and you know that says a lot

Quote:

INTERFACE:

Disagree.

1)

One screen to show everything really is the lazy man's guide to HoMM, don't you think?

Here you see your hero model, artefacts, army, stats and Reputation abilities. From this screen you can also check unit stats by right-clicking on their portraits. It takes only a few clicks to find other information, such as Dynasty bonuses, and the abilities your hero has learned. The hero-specific specialisation can be found by first clicking the fist icon, and then the crown.


It's extremely important to got a complete view of the hero stats, it helps planning a lot, you can see both secondary skills and primary skills on the same screen, you can decide which artifact to chose based on those, what does my hero need? Maybe he needs more attack, with this artifact he receives extra attack, now let's see how much attack my behemoths have, then maybe it won't make a difference because I can see that I got offense or perk that boosts damage. The same can be applied with secondary skills, which is even more important, the screen you showed you can't see the primary skills in the same window as secondary ones and it's necessary to know which perk/skill you need to get in order to optimize your hero better. That's a major flaw. Also it's important to actually distinguish artifacts in the hero screen, the hero model stays there just because you can't even see artifacts you equip on it, they are just small thumbnails you have to click each time to see exactly what is what. Additionally there is no clear boundary between equipped artifacts and backpack artifacts and this can lead to confusion, as well as you have no idea where an artifact's place is, I guess you got a small background icon that symbolizes what comes there, but what when your hero is fully equipped? Are you gonna do trial and error? Does the slot shine like in h3 at least? Also the ketchup and mayonnaise are too larger than secondary traits, why? And let's not say that all the levels looks the same, they can't even write a 1/2/3 or I/II/III on them so you can distinguish the levels? Also a shiny outline would do better when representing your reputation level than making the damn image bigger.



Quote:

It's just a few clicks, seriously. And no, I don't think that paperdolls work here. Seeing your hero in the flesh, being able to view him/her in 3D makes him/her come more alive imo. The hero is no longer just a portrait, but an actual person you hired to do your bidding.



Those extra windows are there just because, not because of complexity, on first screen they just shove everything there then they remain with little content to display on other windows, and so to fill space (and they aren't even good at filling space) they just make icons bigger. Frankly, it's annoying (at least for me) to have so many sizes of icons that are basically of the same category, dynasty related: dynasty weapons and pets are so uselessly big, while dynasty traits have an acceptable size. It makes no sense, now look at the artifacts and then at the dynasty weapons, while you can barely see the former and the details make them even harder to distinguish and pixelized , the last are extremely large and clear so you can see details. Does it make any sense? The same about dynasty pets.





Quote:
It's just a few clicks, seriously. And no, I don't think that paperdolls work here. Seeing your hero in the flesh, being able to view him/her in 3D makes him/her come more alive imo. The hero is no longer just a portrait, but an actual person you hired to do your bidding.



So a useless 3d model that adds as much life as injecting a dead dog with cyanide using a five inch polonium needle is much better than an interactive paperdoll that not only saves space, but also allows for bigger artifact icons so you can actually see what you equip on your hero and don't accidentally put gloves on his feet? No way I know they copied WoW with this, but they could at least copy it full way and make artifacts actual show on the model, so that way you can at least see them. It just occupies valuable space that could be taken by other important assets.

Quote:
Same as above. H3 is loud and clear, that's where I agree. H7's beta was bad in this regard, but H6 makes everything visible too. Just look at the screenshot, it's all there and identifiable.


I completely disagree, everything that actually matters for gameplay is way too small, while useless decorations that are so ugly you can't even call them eye-candies are just way too big and occupy too much from your visual field. The thing is that even if decorations are extremely big, the map looks pretty empty, but I won't blame the game for that, but the map you have shown. Giant decorations also impair up gameplay elements not only by distracting the player, but also by hiding important map objects that are interactive and can be easily missed. If you want to make something big, at least make the interactive ones, that you indeed need to see and must be recognizable. Even the town is smaller than that giant tree, a whole town, that is one of the most important gameplay elements that must always stick out, imagine if that town was surrounded by a forest of trees like these, in h3, the towns were even bigger than mountains. Now due to over-decorations that you always see once or twice then get bored as you always need to zoom in to see them, the creatures and map objects look like clusters of pixels, that what happens at that distance and ratio. The fact that units look tiny on adventure map alone makes them look like pixel clusters, add over-decorations and microscopic details to that and it's a lot time worse. The same can be said about heroes and map objects like learning stones that play an important role in the game. It's not about keeping realistic proportions here, heroes map isn't a real map, but a general's map where you use pawns to symbolize entire regiments and armies, that single skeleton may represent 100 or 1000 not only one so it makes sense it is at least the size of a f***ing tree. The only thing that color scheme improved in h6 was that you could know whose faction that cluster of pixels belonged by looking at the color  



Quote:

This H6 battle screenshot is not zoomed in:

And I can still see everything. H7's Beta was, again, not very promising on this part and I hope they fix it. H6 however was nothing to be worried about. Stack size is visible, and the environment adds to the atmosphere. The grid system allows you to see how far you creatures can move, and when selecting to attack you can see the damage that will be dealt, along with the number of enemies that will be killed in said attack. Something sorely missed in H3, really.




Exactly as zoomed out as heroes 7. Useless border eye-candy details included. Also, even in your screen most of the units' details don't add anything to the atmosphere, contrary they are bothersome and hurt your eyes. Look at all those spikes on the ghoul, they just over-crowd an already small creature that is barely visible, what's the point? So you can see them in the hero screen? And lol dude, the h3 vanilla combat menu did more things that heroes 6 does to the grid more than 15 years now. You can also turn it off, make only shadow visible or keep it on all the time. Without any mods.



Quote:
Oh, in the corner, hidden in fog and mist, on a cliff.


And it doesn't stand out as a building, it looks more like a background decoration than an actual building, everything is already too faded anyway.


Quote:
But really, the air of "Almighty H3" is strong in this topic. Come on, what once was no longer is, as was made clear by the dawn of H5. There is an evolution going on, and the new games aren't even made by the same developer and therefore do not always follow the same ideas and styles. If Heroes would remain as static, while other games continue to evolve, I think it would quickly fall by the wayside. The art evolves with technology, and it's clear that the franchise evolves in more than one way, and quickly at that. I say, don't stick too much to Holy H3 and learn to look ahead, and accept that not everything is going to be like it once was. Because only wanting to go back rather than forward is stalling the progress of the game.


It's not about the mighty heroes 3, is not about old times, is not about nostalgia, is not about that we want another h3. It's about how ridiculous is that a giant developer makes worse quality games and can't surpass a game made 15 years ago, 15 years, that ran on a 64-ram bit machine. It's plain funny, exactly what you said, the art evolves with technology, yet they can't do crap, they remain stuck in 2004 WoW era and put spikes and elves everywhere, they can't even COPY(so ironic ) what was before, not even talking about improving, that's really baffling. If you'd have asked me how heroes 6 would look back when heroes 3 got out, I'd say that it would look awesome, that would top heroes 3 in every aspect, because I thought they could at least improve what was before them, but now we don't even get that, we actually get WORSE, that's the reason. Not nostalgia, but the ridiculous incompetence.


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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted August 11, 2015 02:11 PM

Dies_Irae said:
But really, the air of "Almighty H3" is strong in this topic. Come on, what once was no longer is, as was made clear by the dawn of H5. There is an evolution going on, and the new games aren't even made by the same developer and therefore do not always follow the same ideas and styles. If Heroes would remain as static, while other games continue to evolve, I think it would quickly fall by the wayside. The art evolves with technology, and it's clear that the franchise evolves in more than one way, and quickly at that. I say, don't stick too much to Holy H3 and learn to look ahead, and accept that not everything is going to be like it once was. Because only wanting to go back rather than forward is stalling the progress of the game.

I don't say that H3 should be disregarded altogether (the topic of hero specials for one), but should also not be considered as the holy grail. Imo, every game has its own ups and downs, and one game feels differently from the other in its own way. But in the end, the game is still Heroes of Might and Magic, and to me it feels true to its very core.

But there will never be an agreement between us about this anyway .


sorry Dies_Irae, you can't really predicate criticism with the idea that the best game in the series was too good without any further input, I don't think this limp "Holy H3" meme you guys have combatively manufactured is ever going to catch on lol

you have a fallacy, there is a big distinction between evolution and reinvention, the NWC series almost constantly evolved from H1 to 2 to 3 whereas the Erwin series veered off sideways into a canyon from H5 to 6 and is now evolving that shoddy reinvention lol

I also think you may be missing the point of Elvin's post, it's a shame to have to explain this, but he is not citing Heroes 3 as a good example in hopes of getting a H3 remake of stagnation and regression, he is only citing it because it has been there has been no other good example in years lol
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted August 11, 2015 02:22 PM

HoMM3 is definitely not a nostalgia sickness, is just a solid and inspired game people still love to play. You will find same behaviour in civfanatics forums, all civs games are excellent, particularly the 2dn and 3rd so they are still massively played.

While is easy to dismiss it if considered as nostalgia, it would be much more constructive if the actual team explores and learn from its fabulous life span. You know, kael from civfanatics built a mod for civ2, then for civ3 which both got billion hits, next year kael was hired by firaxis as consultant for next release. This is how you make good games, not only using good designers and story tellers, but also people who understand the game and are capable to carry then materialize successful ideas from one sequel to the next. Darwinism.

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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted August 11, 2015 02:29 PM

Salamandre said:
good designers and story tellers


ubi also lacks those  

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted August 11, 2015 02:32 PM

Salamandre said:
You know, kael from civfanatics built a mod for civ2, then for civ3 which both got billion hits, next year kael was hired by firaxis as consultant for next release. This is how you make good games, not only using good designers and story tellers, but also people who understand the game and are capable to carry then materialize successful ideas from one sequel to the next. Darwinism.


looks like this is what they attempted to do by hiring Marzhin, unfortunately I guess they didn't realize (or didn't care) that he is only of much cop on the aesthetic lore fluff and not the actual game design of Heroes lol
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LizardWarrior
LizardWarrior


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Age of erwins is over
posted August 11, 2015 02:37 PM

More than half of HotA team are already professional programmers/artists. Tough with Ubi reputation I'm not surprised they wouldn't accept the invitation considering ubisoft's "nice" way of treating their employees

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frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
posted August 11, 2015 02:56 PM

Wellplay said:

Oh yeah cause Ubi HoMM has so many mods that comparing them would be bloody fair.

And what does that say about the games? Besides, there are plenty of fine mods for HoMM5, the game that Ubi keeps forgetting.
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"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 11, 2015 03:13 PM

Bringing up MODs to the discussion is absolutely fair. They are great examples of improvements over the original UI, of changes that makes it better. After all, the purpose of this thread is to point out where Ubi is failing at the UIs and what improvements could be made to them. Because you know, it's Ubi who is going to keep overseeing and producing the next HoMM games. Duh.

However, for some reason some people think this is a old (h3) vs new (h6) debate. Clearly that wasn't Elvin's intention
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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted August 11, 2015 03:18 PM
Edited by Stevie at 15:22, 11 Aug 2015.

Dies_Irae said:
Elvin, you really are stuck in H3 Nostalgia here .


And you're stuck in H6 fanboysm here .

Dies_Irae said:
Anyway:

ART:

Don't mind / Disagree. H3's art and graphics style fits a game from that era, but technology has moved on. It's 2015, and the art of a game should be consistent with what's out there now.


Technology =/= art style. Distinct things influencing one another, still distinct. Same technology can be a basis for multiple art styles. Also, King's Bounty and AoW3 disagree with you.

Dies_Irae said:
INTERFACE:

Disagree.

1)

One screen to show everything really is the lazy man's guide to HoMM, don't you think?


No, it's called intelligent interface. Showing everything you need to know in one screen is more efficient than showing them in two. No brainer there.

Dies_Irae said:
*H6 pic*

Here you see your hero model, artefacts, army, stats and Reputation abilities. From this screen you can also check unit stats by right-clicking on their portraits. It takes only a few clicks to find other information, such as Dynasty bonuses, and the abilities your hero has learned. The hero-specific specialisation can be found by first clicking the fist icon, and then the crown.

*H6 pic*

*H6 pic*

It's just a few clicks, seriously. And no, I don't think that paperdolls work here. Seeing your hero in the flesh, being able to view him/her in 3D makes him/her come more alive imo. The hero is no longer just a portrait, but an actual person you hired to do your bidding.


What H3 shows in one screen, H6 shows in at least 3. Wow. "It's just a few clicks, seriously" - that's an argument? Seriously? No one's buying it, lol.

And just from a technical standpoint, a paperdoll is preferable to rendering a 3D model, which doesn't provide any utility at all. A paperdoll is a lot simpler, neater, and you can place the item slots intuitively on top of it. 3D doesn't give you any of that, it's an unnecessary waste of ram.

Dies_Irae said:
2)

H3's hiring screen is indeed more complete, that I'll give you. But H6 has everything it needs: the creature, the artwork, and more importantly: it's abilities and stats. Not all in one, but again H3 is your lazy man's guide to recruiting imo . Just a few more clicks and you've learned all you need. And H3's recruiting lacks in one big aspect: you cannot recruit everything at once, like in H4 and onwards. This is possible in H6, and you even get an indication of what it might cost (automatically it will buy the powerful units first, I believe).


Again with the "lazy man's guide" and "few more clicks". Look, that's not even an argument. Doing more mouse work for less information is worse, no matter in whatever way you put it. Granted some features were absent in H3, like a hire all / upgrade all buttons, they were added later by the community through modding.

Dies_Irae said:
3)

*h6 pic*

*h6 pic*

Less is more.


You what? Weren't you arguing about "few more clicks" just a while ago? I guess you were, huh. Bait and switch your arguments more please.

Dies_Irae said:
H3 has it again all in one. The map, the heroes, the resources, all you need to know. Check above screenshot. This is not zoomed in, I can easily identify units, map locations and resources. Also, right-clicking the hero portrait shows stats and army, as always it's just one click away. Besides, it covers less space and thus leaves enough room for the map itself. In a visually striking world like Ashan, this room-saving is a welcome feature . As I said: we're not in the old graphics department.


Units and resources identifiable? You could barely see anything else than their general color (hail color coding). Map locations were absurdly large because of a mindset of realistic proportions, rather than symbolic ones. What were the towns like, 9x9? "Visually striking world of Ashan" /facepalm.

Dies_Irae said:
ADVENTURE MAP REPRESENTATION:
Same as above. H3 is loud and clear, that's where I agree. H7's beta was bad in this regard, but H6 makes everything visible too. Just look at the screenshot, it's all there and identifiable.


H3's UI is a jewel compared to H6 and H7, even Heroes 5. The frames are COMPLEMENTARY to the adventure map screen, not STAMPED OVER the adventure screen. That's like BASIC UI design everywhere, Disciples 3, AoW3, Civ 5, you name it. It doesn't waste space, especially since H6 and H7 use circular frames which don't work as well as rectangles on your screen. Identifiable my ass.

Dies_Irae said:
BATTLEFIELD REPRESENTATION:
H3 is simple and effective. Not much eyecandy, the focus is on the battle, everything is visible and easy to identify. There, I agree. This H6 battle screenshot is not zoomed in:

*H6 pic*

And I can still see everything. H7's Beta was, again, not very promising on this part and I hope they fix it. H6 however was nothing to be worried about. Stack size is visible, and the environment adds to the atmosphere. The grid system allows you to see how far you creatures can move, and when selecting to attack you can see the damage that will be dealt, along with the number of enemies that will be killed in said attack. Something sorely missed in H3, really.


Good for for you, I can't see anything else besides "this is green, so must be necro; this is red, so must be inferno; this is purple, so must be dungeon, etc". Creatures on the battlefield are too small, and the space wasted on eyecandy makes everything appear even smaller, especially in Heroes 7.

Dies_Irae said:
TOWN SCREENS:
Again, H3 is clear and visible. Stacked together (not always as logical as it may seem, see H3's Dungeon).

*H6 pic*

This is not a fully built Necro town, but the several dwellings are easy to spot. The Boneyard, Sepulcher, Crypt...and where is the Ghost tower? Oh, in the corner, hidden in fog and mist, on a cliff. Yes, this town too has some elements other than just creature buildings. The lack of real non-military dwellings is indeed a sad thing (although...next to the Sepulcher is an area that looks like an excavation site). But there are rocks, cliffs, and elements in the landscape.


Funny, I can't seem to tell most buildings apart, especially not at first sight. Funny yet again, this is also the problem of H7 townscreen.

Dies_Irae said:
Elvin said:
Champion dwellings were highlighted and you could tell they were special


That goes for H3's Portal of Glory without a doubt, but I think that the Titan dwelling in Tower and the Dragon Cave in Dungeon are a bit tucked away. They are there, but to say they stand out among the others? Hm....I'm not sure.


Unarguably, they stand out more than what they did in H6 and H7.

Dies_Irae said:
*H6 pic*

A clear road leading to the city. Sufficient hints of pathways and roads imo.

Once you learn to know each building and the way the city is constructed, finding what is where is not all too hard .


After some hundreds of hours of H6 and 78 hours of H7 Beta, still can't tell most buildings apart. In H3 I could tell any building at a glance.

Dies_Irae said:
--

But really, the air of "Almighty H3" is strong in this topic. Come on, what once was no longer is, as was made clear by the dawn of H5. There is an evolution going on, and the new games aren't even made by the same developer and therefore do not always follow the same ideas and styles. If Heroes would remain as static, while other games continue to evolve, I think it would quickly fall by the wayside. The art evolves with technology, and it's clear that the franchise evolves in more than one way, and quickly at that. I say, don't stick too much to Holy H3 and learn to look ahead, and accept that not everything is going to be like it once was. Because only wanting to go back rather than forward is stalling the progress of the game.

I don't say that H3 should be disregarded altogether (the topic of hero specials for one), but should also not be considered as the holy grail. Imo, every game has its own ups and downs, and one game feels differently from the other in its own way. But in the end, the game is still Heroes of Might and Magic, and to me it feels true to its very core.


I think you're trying to oversell H6 to people who have higher expertise than you on the subject. A LOT higher at that. When people like Elvin, or JJ and bunch, tell you that something reeks, you can bet your ass that it's for good reason. Meanwhile, your flawed analysis just pales in comparison to how accurate and simple their's look.

Dies_Irae said:
But there will never be an agreement between us about this anyway .


Damn right there won't. Because you're just too horribly wrong.
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Dies_Irae
Dies_Irae


Supreme Hero
Picker of Bones
posted August 11, 2015 03:21 PM

Salamandre said:
You used the verb (miss, doesn't have etc) at present time.


I see what you mean. I indeed said "H3 lacks", not 'lacked'. With current mods, some previously missing features are now present.

FrostyMuadDib said:
I suggest that you also use mods for Ubi's HoMM games as part of arguments. IMO, mods are essential part of Heroes games, so I don't see anything wrong in using them when comparing games.


I have no experience with any Ubi-game mods in the HoMM franchise. None at all, so I could not use them even if I wanted to.

LizardWarrior said:
Oh, Dies, you seem to be more biased towards heroes 6 than the whole Enorthian party are towards h3 together and you know that says a lot


Maybe you're right , but we all have our preferences, don't we?

Firstly, thanks for this lengthy response, and taking the time to work through my post and find your arguments to go up against mine . I can respond to a lot of things, and I will just select a few things to comment upon, but our posts are clear examples of what we prefer. You prefer A, I prefer B, and there is little we can do about it. Now, a few things:

LizardWarrior said:
It's extremely important to got a complete view of the hero stats, it helps planning a lot, you can see both secondary skills and primary skills on the same screen, you can decide which artifact to chose based on those, what does my hero need? Maybe he needs more attack, with this artifact he receives extra attack, now let's see how much attack my behemoths have, then maybe it won't make a difference because I can see that I got offense or perk that boosts damage.


I remember the abilities I gave my hero (in H6, and sometimes I browse again to see what is given to him/her). I already lay out a plan what kind of abilities my hero needs. I prefer Passive over Active sometimes, so I boost Attack, Defense, Luck/Morale (the latter is of course n/a in Necropolis), but also Magic Defense. Those make the stats of my hero, and if an artefact grants extra Magic Defense, I may choose that over one that increases another stat. Statboosting is my favorite, but a thing like Snatching Gloves is just as helpful too (the hero spends no movement points picking up resources etc).

LizardWarrior said:
Additionally there is no clear boundary between equipped artifacts and backpack artifacts and this can lead to confusion, as well as you have no idea where an artifact's place is, I guess you got a small background icon that symbolizes what comes there, but what when your hero is fully equipped? Are you gonna do trial and error? Does the slot shine like in h3 at least?


I know that the line directly below the hero is necklace, backpack and ring, so everything below that is inventory. I can imagine it looks confusing, but I don't see it as a problem now that I'm used to it. Also, it does show where an artefact belongs. Not much, but enough:



LizardWarrior said:
So a useless 3d model that adds as much life as injecting a dead dog with cyanide using a five inch polonium needle is much better than an interactive paperdoll that not only saves space, but also allows for bigger artifact icons so you can actually see what you equip on your hero and don't accidentally put gloves on his feet?


I can already see what I equip. The artefacts are clear enough, and I can sort them the way I want. For instance, set-items all have a similar background, making it easier to put them together.

LizardWarrior said:
but they could at least copy it full way and make artifacts actual show on the model


That sounds like a lot of work to implement such a feature. But at least they show Dynasty Weapons on the model . Anastasya is wielding the Staff of the Netherworld here.

However, it only works if it is a conventional model. Heroes such as Acamas, Sarah, Himiko etc won't show the DW you equip on them.

LizardWarrior said:
the creatures and map objects look like clusters of pixels,


I can see Skeletons, Liches, Ghosts and Ghouls. They may not be large, but I can still see what I'm dealing with .

LizardWarrior said:
that single skeleton may represent 100 or 1000 not only one so it makes sense it is at least the size of a f***ing tree.


Just right-click and see how many there are. I do that in every Heroes game .

I walked a short distance with Anastasya, and took this screenshot:



I'm standing next to an Altar of Destruction, there is an Inferno fort up ahead, I see a Time Control guarded by some ghosts, an Armorsmith with Griffins standing in front of it, and some resources. But are they just Griffins? No, it actually is a stack of units. This is where H5 did a good job, imo. If a stack consisted of multiple different creatures, it would show on the Adventure Map. Let's see what we're up against:



Not bad, not bad...shouldn't be too hard. Autocombat only causes 2 losses, but what if I play it manually?



Well, that's clear. Improved Netherbane (Staff of the Netherworld lvel 5 ability) is going to cause some damage, albeit not much.

To me, this is all crystal clear, and the few more clicks it takes to get a full idea of one's hero is nothing to be worried about . But, as with so many things, that's just how I look at it.

--

And there's more, but it'll only be a debate until judgment day I think...
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Dies_Irae
Dies_Irae


Supreme Hero
Picker of Bones
posted August 11, 2015 03:24 PM
Edited by Dies_Irae at 15:40, 11 Aug 2015.

Storm-Giant said:
However, for some reason some people think this is a old (h3) vs new (h6) debate. Clearly that wasn't Elvin's intention


Well, he compares 3 to 7 on some parts, and the very fact that we can say if we agree to A or disagree to B is, I think, already enough of a spark to light the fire of the Old-New debate, intentionally or not...

Stevie said:
Damn right there won't. Because you're just too horribly wrong.


A different opinion doesn't equal a wrong opinion. And I prefer that you put it that way. "Damn right there won't, because our opinions simply differ so much."

I'd like that over an outright statment that I am wrong. Well, in your eyes I'm wrong, but who says that you are not the same in my view?

Stevie said:
Again with the "lazy man's guide" and "few more clicks". Look, that's not even an argument.

Fine, call it a preference if you will. But I use it to describe how I look at this .

Stevie said:
Units and resources identifiable? You could barely see anything else than their general color (hail color coding)


I can easily spot treasure chests, gold, crystal, wood etc. Yes, their color helps a lot there, but it's as easy as it was in other games imo.

Stevie said:
And you're stuck in H6 fanboysm here .


Really? What gave me away?
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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 11, 2015 04:15 PM

Oh my god, Ubi has started a trend. Royal Bounty HD with the miniscule battlefield & UI
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Pawek_13
Pawek_13


Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
posted August 11, 2015 04:20 PM

Storm-Giant said:
Oh my god, Ubi has started a trend. Royal Bounty HD with the miniscule battlefield & UI

Is a magnifying glass included in the package?

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted August 11, 2015 04:24 PM

More of a spyglass coz you know, those vintage feelings lol
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Pawek_13
Pawek_13


Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
posted August 11, 2015 04:25 PM
Edited by Pawek_13 at 16:26, 11 Aug 2015.

Storm-Giant said:
More of a spyglass coz you know, those vintage feelings lol

Such oldschool... So much pixels... Wow.

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PandaTar
PandaTar


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
posted August 11, 2015 04:34 PM

Damn! I've forgotten how awful looking this H6 was.

A close friend of mine bought this one and he had to play 30 minutes at time due his bad eye sight.
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Pawek_13
Pawek_13


Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
posted August 11, 2015 04:38 PM
Edited by Pawek_13 at 16:39, 11 Aug 2015.

Royal Bounty HD said:
well polished user interface

It seems to be too polished...

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GenyaArikado
GenyaArikado


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted August 11, 2015 06:14 PM

I think it's funny how people bring "lineup stagnation because of factions" when any attempts to add something new are met with backlash ("boo i want manticore/unicorn/griffin/beholder/phoenix back")and H4's infernopolis is one of the most loathed things ever.


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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted August 11, 2015 08:08 PM

@Dies Irae

Like I said, H3 is just used as an example. Many of the things I mention are also in H2 or even the black sheep of the family, H4.

All I am arguing is effectiveness and I find it a shame that after 15 years the interface is less effective than it used to be. More tabs and clicks means it is less organized.



Meanwhile, something that really bothers me in H7:

Minimap, adventure map UI and hero portrait are in the same damn place whether you are in the hero screen, the town screen or the adventure map. For the life of me I can't see what is good about that. I find that kind of UI invasive and often unwanted. I don't want a goddamn minimap in my hero screen. I do not want one in my town screen. I can see it just fine on the adventure thank you very much. For the same reason, the hero portrait remains at the lower end of the screen when you bring up your hero screen. Why? It looked so much better in the old games. -







Keeping the UI fixed regardless of the screen you are reviewing seems like a misguided attempt for cohesion. As if we wouldn't know where to find the minimap or hero portrait when changing screens. That never was an issue in the past, I don't see why it would be now. We may have moved from the horror of H6 window screens by the window mentality seems to linger. The old games used full screens for hero and town because they provided FOCUS. You knew what you wanted from each screen.
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