Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info mods forum | HOMM4: info CTG forum | HOMM5: info mods forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Are we being reasonable in our expectations of the developers?
Thread: Are we being reasonable in our expectations of the developers? This thread is 11 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · «PREV / NEXT»
dark-whisperer
dark-whisperer


Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
posted August 14, 2015 06:38 PM
Edited by dark-whisperer at 18:59, 14 Aug 2015.

How can anyone feel content when developer from the start had every intention to reuse 25% creatures from 4 years old game, shamelessly recolors them (or not even that) and then asks for 50eu price?

They were without a doubt deceitful on purpose and never told us or showed how units will look like when they already knew that certain models will be reused. Instead they showed us completely unrelated artwork for Medusa. Shame on them! There were no indication that they will do this until there was lore article connecting Coral Priestess with Medusa. Coincidence? No it freaking is not!

How can anyone say that its ok to have HALF of the dungeon just recolored? Where is the line? Should we accept Heroes VIII with just recolored units and pay full AAA game price? F@ck it, they didn't have time for units, they had to "polish" the game. Jesus!

I don't mind few reused assets but this is outright insulting. Ubilimbic is either lazy, incapable, incompetent, playing dumb or they are taking us for fools. And I don't like when someone lies to me and then plays dumb especially when is asking for my money.

Why should we care if they don't have enough time, money or knowledge to develop AAA game in decent state by the deadline they made themselves? How can we accept faulty or half used product if the price demands top quality?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Pawek_13
Pawek_13


Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
posted August 14, 2015 07:00 PM

dark-whisperer said:
How can anyone feel content when developer from the start had every intention to reuse 25% creatures from 4 years old game, shamelessly recolors them (or not even that) and then asks for 50eu price?

Nintendo does that quite often not many people seem bothered. Besides, reused assets (except for Bone and Black Dragons, these need to change) are the least important issue this game currently has.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Kimarous
Kimarous


Supreme Hero
posted August 14, 2015 07:00 PM

Last I checked, off-topic screaming rant blasting people who do not share your outrage does not fall under "reasonable." You might see it as "righteous indignation"; all I see is a hissy-fit.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
dark-whisperer
dark-whisperer


Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
posted August 14, 2015 07:17 PM

Its ok Kim. My indignation (or fit ) wasn't directed against you, it was my general view of irresponsible developer that thinks cr@p like that can go unnoticed.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
keldaur
keldaur


Adventuring Hero
posted August 14, 2015 08:44 PM

I didn't pay for the game, and i won't until i know gameplay isn't bug free and good. Don't know who you are directing your outrage but that i don't happen to blame the game developers does not change my opinion that the game will be crap, but not because of some silly model recycling.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted August 14, 2015 08:46 PM

I'm not sure i can expect the developers to be able to do their job well under Erwan
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted August 14, 2015 09:05 PM

Sleeping_Sun said:
If anyone missed the article here it is: (clicky)

This is a very interesting article, and it does raise a couple of questions for me.

1) Why did Erwan apply for the position as chief designer of the game? I seem to recall he said he was a fan of the game series, do I recall that correctly? Yet he also had a wish to take the game series somewhere else, which I guess is an honest case, even if I don't agree with his vision.

2) Why did UbiSoft hire Erwan to the position of chief designer - and perhaps more interestingly, would they have hired someone whos vision was "conservative", i.e. to keep the overall game design similar to existing games in the series?

3) Why did Erwan stay on as chief designer of game, when it turned out people didn't like his vision of the game - and is it realistic for him to stay on if Heroes 7 gets a bad reception also? (Will he want to - and will UbiSoft want him to?)



Personally, I think Erwan has much to blame for what has happened with the series. I can forgive him for H6, for if that was indeed his vision for the game, his job was to pursue that (however bad that vision was). I blame him however for staying on with H7 and poisoning that game with his vision - and if the team honestly wanted to take the game back to the roots, they completely failed to grasp what made those roots imo.

A lot of blame also falls back to Ubisoft, however - it seems likely that there is a press from them on the developers, to try to make the game more contemporary in order to increase sales - i.e. focus more on multiplayer aspects of the game. My guess is also that they hired Erwan exactly because he presented a tantalizing aspect of renewing the game, thus giving more profit. And I can't understand why they kept him on as chief designer; if H6 was indeed considered a failure, why did he get to stay?

Anyway, perhaps I'm sidetracking here ...
____________
What will happen now?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
kiryu133
kiryu133


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
posted August 14, 2015 09:08 PM

I think it's rather obvious: Ubi doesn't give a snow about heroes so neither do they care about the boss of the project and what he is doing hence how H7 is turning out.
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted August 14, 2015 09:12 PM

H6 turned a profit it was not a failure commercially therefore Erwin did his job well at least far as their wallets are concerned.
____________
"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted August 14, 2015 09:21 PM

kiryu133 said:
I think it's rather obvious: Ubi doesn't give a snow about heroes so neither do they care about the boss of the project and what he is doing hence how H7 is turning out.

Valid point.
____________
What will happen now?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted August 14, 2015 09:22 PM

Gryphs said:
H6 turned a profit it was not a failure commercially therefore Erwin did his job well at least far as their wallets are concerned.


he may not have landed the series in the red, but I am pretty sure the fact the game killed its developer and forced Ubisoft to start all over with very limited opportunity to milk expansions represented a lot of lost potential profit lol
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted August 14, 2015 09:29 PM

True but it made some return and as kiryu said they probably don't really care so that is good enough.
____________
"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted August 14, 2015 09:57 PM

kiryu133 said:
I think it's rather obvious: Ubi doesn't give a snow about heroes so neither do they care about the boss of the project and what he is doing hence how H7 is turning out.


But, wouldn't Ubi be outraged if it doesn't bring in profit? Despite their greed, they are still a powerful publishing company.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Pawek_13
Pawek_13


Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
posted August 14, 2015 10:00 PM

There is also a reason why Ubi cares for M&M less than for other franchises - M&M is more "outside" of company. What do I mean by that? A few months ago I searched through financial reports of Ubisoft. In these papers there mentioned all games released during fiscal year. There were all sorts of franchises except M&M games. There wasn't even a single mention of them in all available repprts (the oldest available ones come from 2006, I think)! Secondly, all main M&M games (Heroes, Dark Messiah, M&M X) are made by second party developers, so Ubisoft has much less control over them. Thirdly, we all know that Heroes VII's budget is limited. Don't you find it strange that a game made by such a huge publisher has strict budget? This is most probably because M&M is a subsidiary company of Ubisoft. This means that they have a limited control over them and in their actions they are mostly independent.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted August 14, 2015 10:04 PM
Edited by Gryphs at 22:05, 14 Aug 2015.

Clearly some things are enforced such as the dreadful lore. Also ubisoft is responsible or least stated to be responsible for the abominable council.
____________
"Don't resist the force. Redirect it. Water over rock."-blizzardboy

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted August 14, 2015 10:08 PM

Pawek_13 said:
Don't you find it strange that a game made by such a huge publisher has strict budget? This is most probably because M&M is a subsidiary company of Ubisoft. This means that they have a limited control over them and in their actions they are mostly independent.


Here I thought the reason was simply that they used H6's profits (which don't seem to be very abundant) to create H7. And I thought this was the case only with H5. Comparing it to H6, it doesn't feel rushed in, plus some stated Ubi was with other projects and couldn't focus their attention on Heroes V.

But I get this fact that they don't support MM much, since they have other franchises they generated, while Might & Magic rights were simply bought after the NWC bankruptcy.

Still, Ubisoft has to do something; otherwise, those guys may as well be fully independent.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Rakshasa92
Rakshasa92


Supreme Hero
posted August 14, 2015 10:28 PM

ZZZZZ people who still defend Erwan and Ubisoft...


How can people be so blind? Are they extremely young and like bright colors and dragons so much they become blind to the entire product?

Most of all stop defending Erwan, he destroyed a good franchize.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted August 14, 2015 10:29 PM

Pawek_13 said:
Don't you find it strange that a game made by such a huge publisher has strict budget? This is most probably because M&M is a subsidiary company of Ubisoft. This means that they have a limited control over them and in their actions they are mostly independent.


nah Team Erwin is definitely one and the same with Ubisoft, I think it's not a case of their bosses being unable to control them but of not being bothered to control them lol
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted August 14, 2015 10:36 PM

You know that every Heroes game is selling well because Heroes III, right? As long as people will play and mod it, every crap heroes sequel will sell. Look at Terminator or Jurassic park, the last ones were pathetic yet millions of people crawl in awe. The name is the golden goose, not the content.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
drusain
drusain

Tavern Dweller
posted August 14, 2015 11:19 PM
Edited by drusain at 23:23, 14 Aug 2015.

Kimarous said:
I think some people are missing the point of this thread. It's not about "whether Heroes 7 has lived up to your expectations", but "are our expectations of the developers reasonable?" As a general point, I strongly disagree with those that claim "all expectations are reasonable," because that is objectively false.

I accept that certain expectations are reasonable to a point. That is, to say, that expectations should be tempered when certain factors are taken into account. For example, let's use the medusa. It's reasonable to think the medusa will be... well, a medusa. I also think that, for those ignorant of the lore of Ashan, that a medusa is likely to resemble an older incarnation, such as the depiction in H3. However, I do not think it is reasonable for someone aware of the lore of Ashan, and taking into account the track record Ubisoft has with their stringent adherence to lore, to expect that the medusa would be anything but what we got. "Hoping against hope that Ubisoft finally makes a heel-face turn" is not reasonable, no matter how you spin it.

I will also address a point that seems to confuse a lot of people, at least concerning my stance on H7. When I oppose a lot of the "change this thing / remodel this thing" notions, it's not because I think they are in the wrong. I do not think their desire for such changes is unreasonable. However, I do think it is unreasonable for Ubisoft, as a company, to acquiesce to those alterations. The Heroes series, whether you want to admit it or not, is a niche market and their budget/timetable is limited. The more time and effort is spent on redoing existing material is time and effort lost on other aspects of the game. Which ones, I know not, but I consider it prudent and reasonable to spend more time and effort polishing the existing elements than reconstructing them from the ground up.


I've long respected your opinions on the blog and here so I hope I don't come off too confrontational, but I think you're a little off on the expectations that the market will likely have with H7.

Aside from a small niche of fans (aka this forum), nobody is really going to care about whether models are reused or what the lore of Ashan is (or even know what Ashan means). As far as the models go, as long as the press says "they look pretty/awesome/cool" then Ubisoft and Limbic are happy. Most people will not remember lineups from previous games or care. And they certainly aren't playing these games for the lore. The extent will be "hey there's Sandro I remember him" etc.

What they're hoping for initially is that the press will say the game is fun and memorable or bland and boring. And it is my firm belief that the skill system is going to fall short of the press' expectations and they will say the game look good but has very little substance. This would be Limbic's fault, not Ubi's. The only thing Ubi cares about is that the game turns a profit; it would be Limbic directors who are telling Ubi "the game will sell well with this skill system we designed, these creatures we designed, these art assets we designed," etc.

When you ask "are my expectations of Limbic/Ubisoft reasonable?" I still say yes. Limbic has had plenty of team members claim they're fans of the series and have played H3/H5/whatever, so they have a claim to be authority figures on knowing how a Heroes game should work. I dispute their claim, because considering the skilling mechanic, I don't think Limbic understands how the previous games' skill systems work. And this is a big deal, because a sequel SHOULD take all of the good things from previous games and make them better. A sequel that REGRESSES is never good.

For example, the general public opinion of H5, I feel, was that the game was fun but it looked cartoony, whereas the general public opinion of H6, I feel, was that it looked great but had bad gameplay. So if I'm trying to make a sequel called H7, I would generally try to make the art similar to H6 and the gameplay similar to H5 mixed with H3. That was my expectation for Limbic, and that's not what they went for.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This thread is 11 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · «PREV / NEXT»
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.0435 seconds