Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
New Server | HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info forum | HOMM4: info forum | HOMM5: info forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Worst skill (HOMM3)
Thread: Worst skill (HOMM3) This thread is 10 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 · «PREV / NEXT»
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 04, 2015 08:52 AM

How many of those 120 mods did you make Salamandre? Any other people from this site made mods?
Regarding the stability of WoG, are there any weird bugs or crashes? Or does it all work perfectly?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted October 04, 2015 09:15 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 09:27, 04 Oct 2015.

Salamandre said:
I expect players to be reasonable and play with the default one, 50 battles for 10 movement on XL map.

I play with 50 or 100 battles too and I've used this mod in more then 50 scenarios by now. If you don't believe me test it, use a template that gives you two towns and start with Dessa and Gundula or Crag (that get logistics very easy, too). See if by the end of second week Dessa doesn't have at least one more increment then the other guy, maybe even two depending on density of monsters on the map and mod settings.
I say it's a lye cause all my experience has showed me the mod increases the advantage of having Logistics (or Logistics specialist), doesn't eliminate the need for Logistics at all.
I don't mean that the mod is bad or I don't like it, only that the difference between heroes with and without Logistics becomes even greater.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Legendary Hero
Quién Sabe?
posted October 18, 2015 06:05 PM

Learning and First Aid. I like that WoG and following modifications made some skills more worthwhile.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 18, 2015 11:38 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 23:46, 18 Oct 2015.

Just a friendly reminder, that if you have an opinion on this, please cast your vote in the poll. (Same with my "Best hero speciality" poll) The more votes the better.
It puzzles me that people seem to think that Eagle Eye is worse than Learning and First Aid, but fair enough.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Legendary Hero
Quién Sabe?
posted October 19, 2015 08:25 AM

Sure, I'll vote now.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Herry
Herry


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
100% Devil
posted October 19, 2015 04:30 PM

A skill is never useful when you don't know how to use it.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 19, 2015 04:38 PM

Please teach me how to become a master of Learning, First Aid, Eagle Eye and Mysticism then.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Legendary Hero
Quién Sabe?
posted October 19, 2015 05:59 PM

First Aid is useful until your 75 HP tent gets destroyed by a Magic Arrow

Still, I voted for Learning as the worst.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 19, 2015 07:18 PM

Exactly and when it's destroyed you better have a Rampart, Fortress or Necropolis under your command so you can buy a new and Necropolis-heroes can't even learn First Aid...
I guess the skill is okay if it heals a level 7 (or 8) 100 points, but it can still heal like 1 point as if you did'nt even have the skill.

I agree Learning is absolutely useless.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Legendary Hero
Quién Sabe?
posted October 19, 2015 07:49 PM

Yes, and while Mysticism, Eagle Eye or Scholar have limited use and still aren't great, Learning is a real waste.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Itayush
Itayush

Tavern Dweller
posted October 21, 2015 01:09 PM

Definitely Eagle Eye
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
BlackMagik
BlackMagik


Adventuring Hero
posted October 21, 2015 04:48 PM

Any skill that requires a probability roll to even work has to be worse than a skill that works automatically, IMO.

Learning is useful for a quicker start, but becomes increasingly less so the further a game progresses...but it works every time your hero wins a battle.

First Aid also works every time...provided your Tent is still standing. However, the amount of healing is subject to a probability roll so it can be useful one turn and almost useless the next.

Mysticism is rather a joke because the mana recovery is so small compared to what a hero might expend in a battle...but a least it works every turn.

Eagle Eye, OTOH, only works a) if your hero passes a probability roll to activate the skill, and b) if your hero doesn't already know the spell. Both of these events makes the chances of learning a useful spell very small, which is why I place EE at the very bottom of the useful skill list.....  

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 21, 2015 05:01 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 17:11, 21 Oct 2015.

I made a little test the other day about Learning and a hero gaining 500000 xp will be level 30. Then I made the same test with the hero starting with EXPERT Learning meaning he got 575000 xp making him level ...30 meaning he gained nothing! Actually he lost something because instead of Learning he could have used 3 skill levels for Expert Earth, Wisdom, Logistics, Offense, Armorer etc.
Just to be clear I made the same test with lower amounts of xp too and if the hero was lucky he would be one level above normal. But this was even starting with EXPERT Learning, which no hero does.

Here are my results if anyone cares. First is without Learning, second is with Expert Learning.
25000 (Level 13) > 28750 (Level 14)
50000 (Level 17) > 57500 (Level 18)
75000 (Level 19) > 86250 (Level 20)
100000 (Level 21) > 115000 (Level 21)
250000 (Level 26) > 287500 (Level 26)
500000 (Level 30) > 575000 (Level 30)

So I still don't see how Eagle Eye is worse than Learning...

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Kicferk
Kicferk


Known Hero
posted October 21, 2015 05:21 PM

So up to level 20 you get an extra skill point in primary skills, yay.
Also, you get to library of enlightment like 1000xp earlier.

Now, I admit they are very marginal. But think about how marginal are benefits of eagle eye in online multiplayer. That is to say, maps are L+U or larger, multiple towns, separation between players.

What spell could you learn in such circumstances? On a scout maybe magic arrow, which you probably know already from your mage guild(s), and which does silly damage for the time you meet, which is w2 or later.

On main hero you could learn something useful if you faced enemy who can cast this spell. So either damage spell in rare cases when you catch a scout with good magic department, or something truly useful from opponents main hero. But to make him cast most spells you need a serious battle, which usually signals end of game anyway.

And then consider how much easier it is to get all relevant spells elsewhere. And how little these spells you learned will matter in further game.

In single player eagle eye is probably slightly better than learning, but in modern day multiplayer the scales tip in eagle eye's favor imo.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 21, 2015 05:34 PM

Yes, assuming people play only random maps with heavy guards between and tons of towns to be sure they learn all good spells. Which is some modern version of Heroes but not the original.

On the other side, if you play fixed maps where towns and bonus location may be on purpose scarce, you will have to improvise if your guild is poor. The days where scouts will launch all offensive and defensive spells they have, because scouts survival is the key.

Thus eagle eye is a must on early days on such maps.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 21, 2015 05:48 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 17:54, 21 Oct 2015.

This is an imagined, but very possible scenario where Eagle Eye could be usefull:
Imagine playing a XL (or bigger) map, your main hero is far away from you starting town (with capitol) and he does not have Town Portal or Dimension Door, you have a defending hero in that town which has Eagle Eye as a skill, maybe even specialise in it or has some Eagle Eye artifacts. If someone comes to attack that town the Eagle Eye hero will defend it and very possibly learn some spells if defending the castle succesfully. The hero grows stronger increasing Eagle Eyes effectiveness and next time he defends the town succesfully he might have learned new spells again and so on.
So Eagle Eye is good for a defending hero which is kinda stuck with the spells in the towns mage guild. (Perfect for Fortress or Stronghold defenders)
Eagle Eye is not very good on a main who takes a lot of towns (mage guilds) or shrines anyway.  

Learning on the other hand is just a waste of skill levels.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 21, 2015 05:59 PM

And you discovered the philosophical stone 14 years later.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 21, 2015 06:19 PM

I discovered that a long time ago, but thanks for the interesting link Sala.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Kicferk
Kicferk


Known Hero
posted October 21, 2015 08:07 PM

Your example will only work against AI.

Normally if you attack a city guarded by a human player you take an overwhelmingly more powerful army. You want to take the town quickly so that turrets and possible magic hero inside don't have time to kill off anything important.

So I don't see how you would steal any useful spells by this means from a human

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Supreme Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted October 21, 2015 09:19 PM

Well you are right that humans know better than ai when to attack a town, but humans can underestimate the defending force and be outmatched because of certain spells, spellpoints or artifacts or a higher level hero. You are never guaranteed to win.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This thread is 10 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 · «PREV / NEXT»
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.0445 seconds