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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Second civil war in the US?
Thread: Second civil war in the US? This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
Kipshasz
Kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted January 03, 2016 04:21 PM

Second civil war in the US?

Now that I got your attention with an over dramatic thread name, let's discuss.


Appearantly a 150+ strong militia had occupied some sort of government facility(wildlife preserve according to the news sites) in the state of Oregon, and is calling for a revolution against the Federal Governmet of the US.

CBS article

So, is this a farce or possibly a spark of a new civil war in the United States?
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior

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The_Polyglot
The_Polyglot


Promising
Supreme Hero
Nuttier than squirrel poo
posted January 03, 2016 04:37 PM

Publicity stunt, meh
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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Undefeatable Hero
posted January 03, 2016 04:40 PM

I won't watch it, the original will still be better than this reboot

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Kayna
Kayna


Supreme Hero
posted January 03, 2016 05:11 PM

For a real civil war to happen, you need a lot of pissed off people. Treating your citizens well enough, the welfare check option, a left wing brainwash of forgive and forget, being rich enough to be part of the first world, a governmental strategy of divide and conquer or picking your enemies carefully all leads against the creation of a civil war.

Control the population by making them docile with good living conditions.

Your link will never lead to a civil war. lol. People are too pussy now, even in America. The closest thing to a civil war that could happen in the US in the next 50 years would be the red neck south folk separating, and if they attempt to do so, their northern brothers won't really lift a finger against it, so it might be almost bloodless. If the army lets them. Which I doubt. The US army can keep it together if they want to, and nothing beats a good brainwash with words that incites their southern rednecks to remain within like America, Constitution, Country, Americans, etc etc.

Seriously, our elders can influence the minds and opinions of our weak and average people ( the bulk of any population ) with a steady, lifelong exposure to mainstream information and when you + to that how weak and dependable we all become under good living conditions, well that = to no civil war ever.

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted January 03, 2016 05:17 PM

Ah yes, the evil geniuses give us good living conditions! So sad for us, how will we ever escape this nightmare?

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fred79
fred79


Undefeatable Hero
you don't have a BS sensor
posted January 03, 2016 05:26 PM

this is the same militia that went to the ranch in texas' aid, if i remember correctly. i'm happy that they exist, personally. they are one of the last few reminders that there are still old-school americans living in the u.s.

but civil war? no. there are far too few of the true americans existing today. mostly, you just have folks who are armed, and snow about things, but never lift a finger to do anything.

now, if these people would come together, you might have something. but any civil uprising in the states would be met with hostility from outside the states. meaning, even IF we could replace those in charge with real americans instead of corporate puppets; we would just get attacked by some other country for not going along with the program. in order for the civilians of the u.s. to free themselves once more, they would need outside help. and that won't help, because it'd be like removing a criminal element that pays people off; and when you take money out of power's pockets, they get a tad upset.

the world itself is too corrupt, and too many countries hate the u.s.  an uprising would never work, let alone happen in the first place. americans(for the most part) have forgotten what it means to be an american. they forgot why this country was founded. they pay taxes that caused the original americans to leave england and FOUND this country. but most people don't seem to remember that. they're too preoccupied with jobs, gadgets, and accessibility to comfort and excess.

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Kipshasz
Kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted January 03, 2016 05:33 PM

Well the maidan happened with a minority. but there is a lot of unknowns in that "revolution" that we may never know.

But I guess Fred is right for the most part. yes the civil war wouldn't do any good, and foreign forces might want to get back for the "americans" sowing turmoil and discontent around the world.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior

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fred79
fred79


Undefeatable Hero
you don't have a BS sensor
posted January 03, 2016 05:41 PM

Kipshasz said:
yes the civil war wouldn't do any good, and foreign forces might want to get back for the "americans" sowing turmoil and discontent around the world.


it's not that, exactly. don't forget the countries that have benefitted from this turmoil and discontent. these are the countries that would help block any uprising(or, punish those who did if they were successful), because they would no longer have a bully to profit from.

this is what i meant, when i was talking about the worldwide corruption. in order to fix the way the world is, every civilian from every country would have to rise up against their own corrupt leaders.

that kind of thing could never be organized, without the powers that be becoming alerted, and blocking it.

and of course, there's that comfort thing: the populace in general, staying comfortable and productive, under the wings of the dragons that snow the rest of the world, and sometimes each other. sorry if that's a little dramatic, but i find that metaphor to be pretty apt.

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Kipshasz
Kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted January 03, 2016 05:49 PM

heh, at least you're not being fed bull about the soon invading rooskie.


And I see what you mean. one particular country comes to mind specifically to come and aid the "american" muppet government.
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior

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blizzardboy
blizzardboy


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
posted January 03, 2016 06:05 PM
Edited by blizzardboy at 19:53, 03 Jan 2016.

It's bordering on impossible for there to be an American Civil War.

You need mass discontent for there to be a war. What are they going to fight about? Unemployment is down. Transparency is gradually improving. Violent crime in America has been dropping for over two decades. Standard of life is, in general, high. We're not involved in any unpopular foreign wars other than doing airstrikes on the most recent gangsters in the ME, which is just business as usual, nor is it unpopular. There are no grave threats facing the US. About the biggest complaints are that healthcare and infrastructure need some reform, and that's hardly war-inciting.

Well okay, technically speaking, the less than 100 Americans that have died from terrorism since 9/11 almost 15 years ago is - for some reason - considered a bigger deal. Setting aside epidemic clinically disordered paranoia, the biggest legitimate complaints are related to infrastructure and healthcare. Unless you're living in the Middle East, terrorism is the adult version of being scared of a monster under the bed. Unless somebody takes over a Russian nuclear silo and acquires launch codes, terrorism is going to remain low on my list of "things for me to care about".

A group of patriots (lolololol) occupying a wildlife refuge doesn't amount to anything besides some brief news entertainment.

If there is any danger, it comes because of the changing culture of social media. People need less reason to riot than they used to. Simple boredom might be sufficient. That was more-or-less the reason for the mass looting & riots in London a few years back. People just kept tweeting/messaging each other, and every immature malcontent in a 50 mile radius went to the street. Those spontaneous riots are to some extent a blessing in disguise for the British police though. It helps identify people with deviant behavior. Or so I'm told. Something similar and on a wider scale could happen in the US and without much warning. One event triggers another event, etc. It's an avalanche effect.
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Drakon-Deus
Drakon-Deus


Undefeatable Hero
posted January 03, 2016 08:31 PM

blizzardboy said:



If there is any danger, it comes because of the changing culture of social media. People need less reason to riot than they used to. Simple boredom might be sufficient. That was more-or-less the reason for the mass looting & riots in London a few years back. People just kept tweeting/messaging each other, and every immature malcontent in a 50 mile radius went to the street. Those spontaneous riots are to some extent a blessing in disguise for the British police though. It helps identify people with deviant behavior. Or so I'm told. Something similar and on a wider scale could happen in the US and without much warning. One event triggers another event, etc. It's an avalanche effect.


I hope not...

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fred79
fred79


Undefeatable Hero
you don't have a BS sensor
posted January 27, 2016 04:29 PM
Edited by fred79 at 16:31, 27 Jan 2016.

blizzardboy said:
A group of patriots (lolololol) occupying a wildlife refuge doesn't amount to anything besides some brief news entertainment.


the voice for those patriots was shot without provocation by the feds

Quote:
Jan 27 (Reuters) - U.S. and state officials in Oregon on Wednesday set up checkpoints around Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, where an armed group pledged to prolong its standoff with the government a day after one protester was shot and eight others were arrested.

Authorities said the new security involves a series of checkpoints along key routes into and out of the refuge, and was made out of an "abundance of caution" to protect the public and law enforcement after the confrontation.

The month-long occupation of the wildlife reserve over federal control of large tracts of the country turned violent on Tuesday after officers stopped a car carrying protest leader Ammon Bundy and others near the refuge. Activists said Robert LaVoy Finicum, a rancher who acted as a spokesman for the occupiers, was killed.

There were no details on why shooting broke out at the traffic stop. The Federal Bureau of Investigation said authorities would hold a news conference on Wednesday at 9:30 a.m. PST (1730 GMT) in Burns, a town near the refuge.

One of the remaining occupiers, Jason Patrick, told Reuters by phone they would stay until the "redress of grievances."

"I've heard 'peaceful resolution' for weeks now and now there's a cowboy who is my friend who is dead - so prepare for the peaceful resolution," Patrick said.

Authorities on Wednesday said the checkpoints will allow only ranchers who own property in the area to pass and anyone coming out of the refuge will have to show identity and have their vehicle searched.

The Malheur takeover, which started Jan. 2, was a flare-up in the so-called Sagebrush Rebellion, a decades-old conflict over federal control of millions of acres in the West. Protesters say they are defending the Constitution.

Federal officials said they had probable cause to arrest Finicum, who told NBC News earlier this month that he would rather die than be detained.

 Lavoy Finicum walks through the compound as he and others occupy the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters on January 15, 2016 near Burns, Oregon. Joe Raedle/Getty Images Lavoy Finicum walks through the compound as he and others occupy the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge headquarters on January 15, 2016 near Burns, Oregon.

Patrick likened Finicum's death to that of Tamir Rice, an unarmed 12-year-old black youth fatally shot by Cleveland police outside a recreation center in 2014. The officers were not charged.

"The government can kill who they want for whatever reason they want with impunity," Patrick said.

He was asked how the occupiers would respond to authorities entering the refuge but did not indicate a clear plan.

"I don't know what to tell you but if somebody saying 'peaceful resolution' comes in and points guns at me ...," Patrick said before trailing off.


they shot the group's spokesman. anyone here think that he was specifically targeted to shut the group up? now, the feds have surrounded the area the group is occupying, and no one can come in to help them without a gunfight. can you say, waco?

what are everyone's opinions now, on these patriots? is everyone(or anyone) seeing just WHY these guys are doing what they're doing? anyone see WHY they stand for what they do?

this was no misunderstanding, or fluke, on the part of the feds. this was an assassination of a patriotic civilian.

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The_Gootch
The_Gootch


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
posted January 27, 2016 05:50 PM
Edited by The_Gootch at 17:52, 27 Jan 2016.

These insurrectionists had it coming.  I only wish it had happened sooner on the Bundy ranch.

Edit:  No.  There won't be a civil war caused by these jagoffs.  Not even remotely close.
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kipshasz
kipshasz


Undefeatable Hero
Elvin's Darkside
posted January 27, 2016 05:54 PM

I knew that one of them getting shot will come up eventually, kinda expected that the feds will go for their leader.

The true question is what backlash this will cause? more rioting rednecks? or some stupid hashtag trend?
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"Kip is the Gavin McInnes of HC" - Salamandre
"Ashan to the Trashcan", "I got PTSD from H7. " - LizardWarrior

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fred79
fred79


Undefeatable Hero
you don't have a BS sensor
posted January 27, 2016 06:11 PM
Edited by fred79 at 18:16, 27 Jan 2016.

The_Gootch said:
These insurrectionists had it coming.  I only wish it had happened sooner on the Bundy ranch.


i'm curious as to your standpoint on this. i don't have any background information on why they are occupying or for what reason, but what i DO know is they supposedly stand for the u.s. constitution. i don't know what the hubub is about, regarding the two stretches of land they've occupied. maybe you can enlighten me, since you feel differently.

where do you get your information from?


edit: i'm reading up on it now. i've been pretty passive in the group's activities and stances, but now i think it'd be a good idea to better get to the root of things.

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 27, 2016 06:31 PM

A truly snowed up country. A revolution won't change anything. You're all doomed to live your lives under those warlords and their fed guard.
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fred79
fred79


Undefeatable Hero
you don't have a BS sensor
posted January 27, 2016 06:56 PM

ok. did some reading. the bundy occupiers are standing up for civilians in cases of land ownership vs. the feds. that is their primary goal.

more specifically, the latest case(the oregon occupation), is over 2 ranchers burning over 100 acres of land, so that their cattle could feed. while i am against people burning any land for their own purposes, i understand that their cattle need to feed to produce burgers for me to eat. so i'm torn there.

the texas occupation by the same group, was over cattle grazing on federal lands in texas.

so, to sum up, i think wildlife reserves should be protected from dumbasses. if that means federal ownership, i'm all for it.

but i'm also for armed militia's who challenge the u.s. government, simply because it's part of the constitution, and a foundation of our freedom as americans.

the way i see it, the feds are at fault here, simply because they killed a civilian. the occupiers haven't killed anyone, only occupied space.

so i side with the occupiers, regardless of whether or not i agree with their stance on land ownership and control.

as government organizations have proven to be corrupt again and again and again(think waco, the atf-dealing-firearms-to-drug-traffickers debacle, etc), i think armed militia's standing up for the u.s. constitution are VITAL to keeping the u.s. governement from further tightening it's corrupt grip on the american populace.


still waiting on your response, gootch.

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friendofgunnar
friendofgunnar


Honorable
Legendary Hero
able to speed up time
posted January 27, 2016 07:04 PM

fred79 said:
the voice for those patriots was shot without provocation by the feds


Without provocation?  You reveal your obvious bias here. It's not difficult at all to know what actually happened during the arrest, you only have to read the article that you linked, specifically at the end. "I don't know what to tell you but if somebody saying 'peaceful resolution' comes in and points guns at me ." and also "who told NBC News earlier this month that he would rather die than be detained"

What happened was the authorities arrested them with guns drawn, which is exactly what they should have done.  Finnicum, the most outspoken of the group raised his own gun and the feds cut him down, which is exactly what they should have done.  

Not only that it beggars belief that the leaders of the group would think they had they pleasure to come and go as they please after an armed takeover of a federal building. These ****wits deserve long prison terms.

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted January 27, 2016 07:33 PM

The us police is pandering to these occupants WAY TOO MUCH. Why do they allow food donations to them? Why don't they cut the power?

I guarantee that if it was any other group than white rightwing americans they would not be allowed to occupy a federal building this long.
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fred79
fred79


Undefeatable Hero
you don't have a BS sensor
posted January 27, 2016 07:39 PM

@ fog:

Quote:
"I don't know what to tell you but if somebody saying 'peaceful resolution' comes in and points guns at me ."


this wasn't a statement from the guy that got killed, but from one of his buddies, AFTER their spokesperson got shot. and from everything i've read(about 4 articles on the arrest), nobody knows who did what. the authorities aren't claiming anything atm.

just because a guy says he'll die before being detained, doesn't mean that the feds should feel free to oblige him. they are the AUTHORITY on the matter, which means they HOLD THE RESPONSIBILITY TO KEEP THE PEACE. they could have just tazed the guy, obviously(seeing as the rest of the group in the car simply turned themselves over to authorities). the bad pr for the feds SHOULD have let them know that it would be a bad idea to kill one of the group, ESPECIALLY the spokesperson for the group. it's a CLEAR assassination.

your claim that i'm "biased" is unfounded especially, since i explained myself in my last post. maybe you should reread it?

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