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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Heroes III: what are the viable MAGIC heroes?
Thread: Heroes III: what are the viable MAGIC heroes? This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT»
bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted July 10, 2016 09:54 AM

x-ecutionner said:
Battle Mage are hybrid heroes, not spellpower/knowledge oriented.
Spellpower isn't the issue, how you fight is. Neither Haste, Force Field, Berserk, Counterstrike or Prayer need spellpower to work but they enable very different playstyles.

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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted July 10, 2016 10:37 AM

phoenix4ever said:
But your Titans won't benefit from Offense with Crag Hack, unless you walk straight into the face of the enemy. Every other level 7 unit will benefit from Offense, but not Titans. But very early game Titans are strong enough to hold their own, still Crag Hack seems like a weird choise for Tower units imo.

Crag Hack > Orrin for Tower any day. Even the bout between Orrin and Gundula is difficult, but I tend to prefer Orrin as N2.

You are right though Pheonix, the Titans will benefit more from Orrin in terms of ranged damage. However, I think you overlook a tad too many facts.

First of all, Crag Hack has the best attack skillup and secondary skillup. Attack is always the N1 stat vs the map.
Secondly, before you even get your Titans you need to get pass week 1. This means that your only ranged unit will be the 4x Mages(more if you got a dwell on the map), which means only 1 unit can draw the power of Orrins specialty. Crag however, gives a solid damage boost to your Gremlin stack, Golems, but most importantly, your Nagas and Giants.
Last but not least, in the end battle the enemy have plenty of reasons to try and block your Titans (which means Crag's specialty comes into play). For if not, the other player will be in for some real pain.

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Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted July 10, 2016 10:58 AM

Thant?
He has Animate Dead at start

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted July 10, 2016 03:38 PM

You guys might be right about Crag Hack > Orrin for the start of the game and for short games, but for longer games I would prefer Orrin. Orrins Leadership and Archery is excellent for Titans, huge range damage and a good chance of attacking twice.
I'm sorry Crag Hack is an excellent hero, but there ARE other heroes, if Crag Hack was the only hero, I would have been done with this game 16 years ago.

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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted July 10, 2016 04:25 PM

phoenix4ever said:
You guys might be right about Crag Hack > Orrin for the start of the game and for short games, but for longer games I would prefer Orrin. Orrins Leadership and Archery is excellent for Titans, huge range damage and a good chance of attacking twice.
I'm sorry Crag Hack is an excellent hero, but there ARE other heroes, if Crag Hack was the only hero, I would have been done with this game 16 years ago.

I agree Orrin is a powerhouse aswell, but if one brings Crag into a comparison, then there is nothing to compare.
It's the pure archery and chance for Water Magic that pwns Crag, but leadership is next to useless due to the abundance of morale artifacts.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted July 10, 2016 04:39 PM

But with Leadership, you don't need to wear those morale artifacts, you can wear something better.

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forgottenpw
forgottenpw


Hired Hero
posted July 10, 2016 09:19 PM

crack can get leadership too, the only merit to not take a barbarian is water magic
____________

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Tupaz
Tupaz


Adventuring Hero
posted July 10, 2016 09:31 PM

Generally Magic heroes are not better than might heroes, but if i have to chose 2 i will take Luna with fire wall and Solmyr with a army of golems.
They both in the first weeks can take some strong neutrals with easy and have the speed advantage over the others.

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x-ecutionner
x-ecutionner


Known Hero
posted July 11, 2016 01:54 PM
Edited by x-ecutionner at 14:26, 11 Jul 2016.

According to http://www.heroes-iii.com/ , in the statistics section, If I look at the most played heroes, excluding Gundula who is top tier (but the battle mage class is not really a nuker class but an hybrid), I can see the first pure nuker played is Solmyr with a staggering 33% win (129 times used, 42-87 ratio).
Almost every Might hero appears to be better - ratio wise, and number of time used.

Spellpower/Nuker monster like Malekith has 20% win, 36 times used (7-29).

Loynis, suggested by a previous enthusiastic poster, has been played 62 times, with 16-46 stats (roughly 25% win)

Gundula and Battle Mages have positive winratio because they are very close to Might heroes.

So, for "viable" Magic Heroes, the strongest (Solmyr) gets fried by most higher tiered might heroes, which means almost 50% of all Might heroes.
Everything considered, you'll win 1/3rd of the time with Solmyr as your main hero. And 1/5th of the time with Malekith.


So, we can come into the conclusion: Pure Magic Heroes lose games (<<50%), instead of having +/-50% winrate like most of the Might Heroes do.

End of discussion.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted July 11, 2016 06:01 PM

There is another detail concerning archery, is that most of time it does half damage. Archery specialists should at least have the range penalty removed, as it makes no sense.

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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted July 11, 2016 08:35 PM

I got a better idea, let's make it so that ranged creatures under a AS hero strikes twice with a ranged attack like the Grand Elves.

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Anil
Anil


Known Hero
posted July 12, 2016 07:11 PM

If Crag Hack is the best hero in the game. Why he isn't forbidden on online games?
____________

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Ebonheart
Ebonheart


Famous Hero
Rush the rush
posted July 12, 2016 08:00 PM

Anil said:
If Crag Hack is the best hero in the game. Why he isn't forbidden on online games?

Because so many players are so horny for Crag that they ban logistic heroes as an excuse to cower for the real thing that should be banned.

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x-ecutionner
x-ecutionner


Known Hero
posted July 13, 2016 12:43 AM
Edited by x-ecutionner at 12:25, 13 Jul 2016.

Anil said:
If Crag Hack is the best hero in the game. Why he isn't forbidden on online games?


Although he's not the best hero by himself (that is still Crag) watching Necromancy and skeleton usefulness, I would still consider Galthran level 15-20+ to be the absolute best hero in L/XL map everything considered.
What is your offense worth against thousands of 5+ speed, +2 att/def skeleton stack with mass haste / shield/ counter strike?
That's right, nothing.

EDIT: If you play No rules, Mullich / Ryland / Gunnar / Kyrre (Logistics/ Diplo Heroes) are better than Crag Hack because of the stupidly overpowered skills they start with.

Crag Hack is the strongest LEGAL hero.

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted July 13, 2016 08:53 AM

x-ecutionner said:
Although he's not the best hero by himself (that is still Crag) watching Necromancy and skeleton usefulness, I would still consider Galthran level 15-20+ [...]
What is your offense worth against thousands of 6+ speed, +2 att/def skeleton stack with mass haste / shield/ counter strike?
That's right, nothing.


And if that isn't scary enough, it's +6 even.

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x-ecutionner
x-ecutionner


Known Hero
posted July 13, 2016 09:22 AM
Edited by x-ecutionner at 12:26, 13 Jul 2016.

OhforfSake said:
x-ecutionner said:
Although he's not the best hero by himself (that is still Crag) watching Necromancy and skeleton usefulness, I would still consider Galthran level 15-20+ [...]
What is your offense worth against thousands of 6+ speed, +2 att/def skeleton stack with mass haste / shield/ counter strike?
That's right, nothing.


And if that isn't scary enough, it's +6 even.



Oops, sorry, yeah that's +6att/+5def at level 21!

What I meant was, giving +2 attack to a stack of 1000+ (legion) is already giving it a 20% damage increase (+2 attack = 20% damage increase without applying any modifier).

So it's rough 60% damage increase/ 25% defense increase / 20% speed increase (4 > 5) at level 21 if i'm right.

If only you could Bless them (1-3 damage range becoming 3 for each skellies)... We can only dream yo?

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master_learn
master_learn


Legendary Hero
walking to the library
posted July 13, 2016 09:24 AM

You can bless the demons,leaded by Marius!
____________
"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre

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revolut1oN
revolut1oN


Famous Hero
posted July 13, 2016 12:04 PM

Galthran gives skeletons only +1 speed, not +2. Level does not matter here.

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Scorpion7
Scorpion7

Tavern Dweller
Why do I like Inferno?
posted August 09, 2016 05:49 PM

This is my opinion for the best Magic Heroes. Take this with a grain of salt, as it is my opinion after all, and I might be wrong and my opinion can differ from other opinions.


I would say any Conflux Magic Hero (Elementalist) is a good choice, as they all have some kind of spell specialty, alongside Wisdom and Fire/Earth/Water/Air Magic as their starting secondary skills, and a 0-0-3-3 primary skill stat. Though, Gelare and Grindan aren't as good as a main hero as they have gold as their specialty. Luna is also mediocre as her speciality is Fire Wall, which in my opinion is not a very useful spell.


Regarding other factions, I would say the best ones are:


Tower (Wizard): Solmyr and Daremyth

- Solmyr for his Chain Lightning specialty as well as good starting secondary skills (Wisdom and Sorcery). Expert Sorcery, Expert Air Magic, and a high level makes the Chain Lighting spell deadly

- Daremyth for her good starting skills of Wisdom and Intelligence, also a decent speciality (Fortune). The Fortune specialty is meh, but the starting secondary skills are very good, great starting skills for a Magic hero.


Dungeon (Warlock): Malekith and Jeddite

- Malekith has Wisdom and Sorcery as his starting secondary skills, however, his specialty is the Sorcery skill, meaning his damage spells can do very good damage in the late game, when he is a high level. Couple this with a good spell power, and his damage can become ridiculous.

- Jeddite has the Resurrection specialty, meaning a high level Jeddite, with good Knowledge, can just resurrect his army with ease, and take no losses if he blinds the enemy. I did not include Alamar, even though he also has the Resurrection specialty, because his starting skills are Wisdom and Scholar, and I find Scholar pretty mediocre, whilst Jeddite has Advanced Wisdom as his starting skill, meaning Jeddite has one more free spot for a skill compared to Alamar, as well as no bad skills.


That's my list. I did not include any of the Castle, Rampart, Inferno, Necropolis, Stronghold or Fortress magic heroes because the author of the thread stated:

"Not speaking about Hybrid role, but rather a full power/knowledge hero."

And only Tower, Dungeon and Conflux magic heroes have 0 attack and defense.

Again, take my opinion with a grain of salt. It's an opinion after all.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted August 09, 2016 11:50 PM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 23:54, 09 Aug 2016.

my personal list, based on some longer games/maps:

-Dracon (obvious with Enchanters)
-Zydar (Sorcery is nice for Armageddon - Inferno has chance for Armageddon, also Efreets are immune to it, Lavaterrain and Inferno's Order of Fire itself has lots of boosts for Spellpower aswell, and its the only viable tactic for Inferno instead of farming demons)
-Vidomina (In HotA she is quite powerful 'coz she wasn't nerfed with 1/2 necromacy debuff)
-Sandro (same as Zydar, but for Implosion, Earth is super common for Necropolis, since graves are earth stuff, same as most of their spells (death ripple, animated dead...), also Implosion has quite a high chance for Nec Guilds [20 while all other possible spells are just 16])
-Thant (can revive anything from start)
-Jeddite (good wisdom, reviving from start)
-Malekith (same reason as Zydar/Sandro, may work nice in dracageddon since its possible for Dungeon to get Armageddon at double rate of any other town)
-Dessa (Logistic is always OP)
-Gundula (another casting Crag Hack with offense)
-Voy (Navigation can be powerful too under certain circumstances)
-Luna (Firewall is damn powerful at start, you may clear any Griffin Conservatory on day1 with it)
-Eovacius (2 clones instead of 1 is OP as hell lategame)
-Casmetra (Sea Witches are very powerful lategame)

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