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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: What would you want to see from a "New" homm3?
Thread: What would you want to see from a "New" homm3? This thread is 8 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · NEXT»
HorazVitae
HorazVitae

Tavern Dweller
posted July 19, 2016 10:44 PM

What would you want to see from a "New" homm3?

Heya,

So a buddy of mine and myself decided to program a non-profit HoMM from scratch (With enough deviation to not get sued ofc ) and were wondering what the community would expect/like to see included.

Any kind of input would be appreciated, since we'd like to put it up for download for everybody's convenience (single-/multiplayer) once it reached a sufficient stage. While we did plan how to do stuff, the more ideas/opinions/etc. we get the better, so we can actually cater to the community to some extent. We'd like to keep it personal unlike others (*cough* ubi *cough*), is probably what im trying to say and we'd really appreciate it if w could get a good discussion on this topic rolling since we don't want to deliver anything half assed.

We are gonna try to merge the best features of every HoMM, with maybe a bit of innovation from our side and thus I had no idea in which Forum to start this thread but since the art style is (probably) gonna be in 2d to appeal with the rustic charm of HoMM3 I figured in this one would be fitting (I'd repost in the HoMM 5 forum aswell in case that's allowed, so a side note on that would be nice aswell).

As a disclaimer I'd like to mention that I've never actually written a proper forum thread so please excuse any weird-ish stuff I might've done.

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Baronus
Baronus


Legendary Hero
posted July 20, 2016 12:08 AM

Heroes IV system in HIII egine:-)
Units with spellbooks.
All unit ability can be added to other.
5 level skills.
etc. :-)

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted July 20, 2016 12:14 AM

What I personally like to see most is a "dungeon keeper" remake . As for another homm3... I really like complex towns and systems.... Tons of stuff... maybe 10 units per town with some alternatives. Very different playstyle and strenght for each town. Lots of artifacts... and tons of map objects.

But my suggestion for you two is... start simple and make a concept first. Think about an engine (unity?) or even graphic style: 2D? 3D? also think about a coding language (c#?) If you got the basics you can start on kickstarter or patreon to gain some money you need for more employees. First things first... this alone takes as an hobby at least 2-3 years if you got lots of free time if you're new to everything.

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HorazVitae
HorazVitae

Tavern Dweller
posted July 20, 2016 12:16 AM

well yea; we ain't new to this AND have too much free time so the technical stuff is covered for now^^

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x-ecutionner
x-ecutionner


Known Hero
posted July 20, 2016 12:24 AM

To me, the best Heroes of Might and Magic ever could be a combination of:
Heroes 1 characters
Heroes 2 musics / campaign / characters / campaign design
Heroes 3 gameplay / core design
Heroes 4 Lore story / Heroes fights
Heroes 5 caravan / faction design/ balance
Heroes 6 graphics
Heroes 7 skillwheel


There are good things in every Heroes.
Contrary to everybody here, I don't put Heroes 3 on a piedestal, Heroes 5 may be the best everything considered and my personnal fav is HoM&M 2.
There "could" potentially be a future top tier Heroes game, because when Ubi cares about a game they do things only a couple AAA budget company can dream of.
Thing is, they seem to not give a fek about this franchise.
Instead of hiring Nival for Heroes 6 & 7 and letting them having total control of the product - as long as there are polls & mass communication with the audience/ fans, they just hired an original hipster who mostly refused every ideas but his own.
Heroes can still be saved, it's up to Ubisoft.

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Dj
Dj


Promising
Supreme Hero
Always loyal to HC
posted July 20, 2016 12:35 AM

Have you checked these guys? they kinda do the same thing, only that they started it a few years ago. maybe you could join forces and finish it faster? just a thought.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted July 20, 2016 01:00 AM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 01:12, 20 Jul 2016.

Okay if you're already skilled... thats different...

I personally only prefer HoMM3 with some changes of course

I would like:
lots of biomes: grass, dirt, snow, rough, lava, underworld, water, nuclear wasteland, sky, space, savanna, djungle, deep sea (underwater)

for each biome a city with lots of units

a commander with unique skills (have to be hired aswell)

lots of heroes every one with unique skill, no dublicate, even a different balance for each hero.

Split between might & magic heroes... I would also go further and split a lil more with passives: Knight (buffs offense), Paladin (buffs defense), Cleric (may heal units), Wizard (more spelldamage), Anti-Magic (passively strong in despelling), Ranger (more speed to units), witch (chaotic magic, may cast for free), demon (get mana back from kills), necromancer (raises skelettons after battle), succubus (may charm other units like diplomacy) stuff like this. as for attributes... I would differ the primaries "attack", "defense", "spellpower" and "wisdom" even more... to more RPG like attributes and with much higher values an item what is +4 Spellpower in HoMM3 could be +42 spellpower now, for a much more precise balance.

lots of secondary skills, less useless ones compared to HoMM3 it should be the agony of choice what skills you take.

day/night cycle for every even (day 2,4,6,8) (day) and odd  (day 1,3,5,7)(night) turn. In daylight some pure and good units may be stronger, in the night some evil units may be better. In heavens always day, in underworld always night.

dynamic lighting for maps and day/night switch. Maybe weather-effects would be nice too, some units may prefer sun, other rain, others get invisible in snowstorm, in a storm every unit is slowed down in speed, archers miss easier (-50% damage) maybe a unit called "stormrider" doesnt care at all about a storm... while in snow/swamp units may move less... stuff like this. Environment may change the battle

fog of war is a musthave also simultanous retailiation thats non existant in homm3.

I personally like the HoMM3 spells, but mass spells should be at least lvl3 or lvl4 it destroys the whole game imho. some more spells would be awesome. some more stuff like invisibility, lifeleech, timestop... would also be awesome to add some new elements to the existing 4 ones. like in final fantasy or MM4+5 or wizardry: fire, water, earth, air, ice, lightning, acid, poison, light, dark, energy, holy, demonic, temporal

maybe after turns random units roam the map between points, I like sid meiers pirates in this case... where you can get staff for your boat/army be boarding ships (as example: quartermaster raises moral permanentely +1, sailmaker fixes sails on see in a storm, navigator increases movement on sea, pathfinder increases movement on land, thief/spy may see hidden units or enemys army strenght) random events or fitting outcome... you may recruit ppl in the name of the king, they may join on their own or you may force them with weapons, same for moving caravans or even thieves and murders raoming the land...

balance! one of the most important things... I would also like a spectator mode, and a lobby where you can find other players...

thats the hell of a list... I know and I think it isn't really doable, but with some progress maybe... see it as brainstorming.

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avatar
avatar


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted July 20, 2016 06:27 AM

I albo think, that join forces with VCMI Team is the bet option for now. Programming is one thing, graphic is the second. VCMI needs good programmers and have a base with many mods.
____________

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BlackMagik
BlackMagik


Adventuring Hero
posted July 20, 2016 06:44 PM

I would suggest starting simple (but nice!) and leave yourself room to add in as time goes on.

As a game/map designer for an old WW2 war game, the biggest mistake I saw repeated over and over was starting too big/ambitious. These kind of projects take HUGE amounts of time and over-ambitious designers would more times than not get well into their project, only to find they've hardly made a dent in what they wanted to accomplish.

Perfect example were those who wanted new maps to play on. So they'd fire up the map editor, whip out a new map every few days....only to have the gaming community ignore their work completely. As a map-maker whose work was in high demand for campaign designers, they did not heed my warning that GOOD maps took hundreds of hours to make and playtest for bugs and good playablity.

Hence, start small and simple, but balanced and fun to play, and keep adding/changing as time goes on

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MeKick
MeKick


Hired Hero
posted July 20, 2016 09:43 PM

Three main things for me:

One, the HD mod integrated into the new Heroes III. No explanation necessary.

Two, a multiplayer lobby system akin to the likes of GameRanger so that players can find games easily, without having to go through the trouble of setting up a third-party program like Hamachi, Tungle, Teamviewer or GameRanger just to play matches with/against others.

Three, balance changes. A lot of balance changes. Personally I think that mass spells should be in the level 3 section, much like how it was in Heroes II. Having many of the strongest spells in the game available to you by Day 1/2 strikes me as rather ridiculous. Also, Diplomacy needs to be reworked in some way -- not much to be argued here. In addition, I'd push for a rework of Orb of Inhibition and Recanter's Cloak as well -- shutting down one whole branch of "Might and Magic" seems rather ridiculous in the context of the game.

Thoughts?

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natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted July 21, 2016 08:32 AM
Edited by natalka at 08:37, 21 Jul 2016.

What would mass slow on level 3 fix? Lower probability? Because even if you get slow early you still have to get Exp Earth + magic book in order to use it.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted July 21, 2016 08:47 AM

Make the spell cost progressive, which will restore the usage of magic heroes and bring back the spell power importance, as it defines spell duration. First cast = 10 mana, second +50%, and so on. Also create natural resistances for every high level creature, as we have in wog. In which is basically impossible to blind or slow any powerful creature.
____________
Era II mods and utilities

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natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted July 21, 2016 09:36 AM

what do you mean first cast, second cast? This happens in one battle?

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted July 21, 2016 10:00 AM

Yes I use this way to restrict force field in my maps. First cast normal cost and then +50% at each cast in that battle. No longer game break by hiding all battle beyond, you cast it now only to save your ass in a specific turn. Force field base price is also 80 mana now, so not so easy.
____________
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HorazVitae
HorazVitae

Tavern Dweller
posted July 21, 2016 05:26 PM

Ok so since I have no idea how to quote stuff ima do it like this:

@Baronus:
-> What do you mean by 'unit ability can be added to other?'
-> As for units with spellbooks, that we intended to do ofc.

@x-ecutionner:
-> I've never gotten around to playing H1; only started with the second installment, how did the charakter design in H1 catch your eye? lore-wise  or mechanically?
-> As for heroes participating in fights as a body we kinda distanced ourselves from that for now; but who knows; me might just add a lobby option for that once the rest is done
-> As for the H7 skillwheel, it has the downside of limiting a hero in his selection of overall abilityschools and since herocustomization enhances the freedom of its owner we'd like to not do that (but we might just be plain wrong and thats what the game needs )

@Dj, avatar:
-> We weren't aware of their project, but what they do is fundamentally different from our plans. They're re(MOD)eling H3 in their overhaul while we wanted to create a whole new game and since our two ideas thus stand in conflict with eachother we are not likely to jump onto the bandwagon there for now sry^^

@P4R4D0X0N:
-> rlly a nice batch of ideas u got there. tons of stuff and while ofc not going to be immediately implemented, they're interesting stretchgoals to aim for, some of which we didn't even think of
-> the day night cycle thing is intriguing, but having it come down to good/bad difference, giving a factionwise advantade would turn into a back and forth where one wouldn't want to fight at day, the other not at night, so wouldn't a general impact on the battlefield for both sides be more balanced while still keeping the cycle characteristics?
-> weather same thing, but nonetheless great idea, makes for nice interactions with biomes and weatherprobabilities aswell
-> FoW is probably a preference kinda thing, so i suppose adding a lobby option for that wouldn't do any harm
-> simultanious retaliation is probably not gonna happen for now, since at least one of us two doesn't like it at all, but we'll se^^
-> but anyay this kinda stuff is exactly what we'd like to see and even better if more ppl argue about other ppl's comments

@BlackMagik:
-> you're totally right, and that's just what we'll do. collecting food for thought is still nice to get an overwiev of the situation^^

@MeKick:
-> hosting such a lobbysystem would require us to get some servers up and running which os probably not going to happen; as for collaboration with gameranger or anything similar is not out of the question but initial stages will still use second party programs for simplicty's sake
-> as for mass spells see below

The following would be stuff we planned to do, ready for your commenting convenience

-> on the note of creatures/towns: we are planning to do it like this: every city has 7 tiers with 2 different t7 creatures to choose from; you build one's building means u can't build the other's. we really liked the way H5 played with the two different upgrades but also wanted a little bit more gravity for that particular choice, so although every tier has 2 upgrades your have to decide whose building to get, just like with the 2 different t7's (meaning you can't just switch whenever your want to)
-> since one part of HoMM is it's diversity we did design 9 different cities for now, but since they're are prone to balance and core changes there is no need to list em here for now (but rest assured that diversity is will not be lacking)
-> since the topic of mass spells came up; we thought of removing them altogether and instead put up a (scalable?) option of multicasting them, effectively enabling targeting of mutliple creatures, thus reenabling the nessecity of thinking about what your'd be doing; areacasting of buffs aould be another option. putting some spells on multi and some on area casting would probably be our idea on handling that (you could balance the number of casts or the area so there is a lot of room to tweak stuff)


welp, that was a lot of stuff and excuse me if my english (not my native language) went downhill somewhere inbetween^^

i hope we can continue this thread to get it big enough to (at least partly) reflect the community's sight on things; ima check in once in a while to throw in my two cents aswell if it gets rolling

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x-ecutionner
x-ecutionner


Known Hero
posted July 21, 2016 07:02 PM

Well, I meant the Heroes in HoM&M I / II are what I would consider "canon" and the main protagonist in the story. Also very charismatic portraits and It started with these.


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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted July 21, 2016 09:24 PM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 19:17, 22 Jul 2016.

HorazVitae said:

@P4R4D0X0N:
-> rlly a nice batch of ideas u got there. tons of stuff and while ofc not going to be immediately implemented, they're interesting stretchgoals to aim for, some of which we didn't even think of
-> the day night cycle thing is intriguing, but having it come down to good/bad difference, giving a factionwise advantade would turn into a back and forth where one wouldn't want to fight at day, the other not at night, so wouldn't a general impact on the battlefield for both sides be more balanced while still keeping the cycle characteristics?
-> weather same thing, but nonetheless great idea, makes for nice interactions with biomes and weatherprobabilities aswell
-> FoW is probably a preference kinda thing, so i suppose adding a lobby option for that wouldn't do any harm
-> simultanious retaliation is probably not gonna happen for now, since at least one of us two doesn't like it at all, but we'll se^^
-> but anyay this kinda stuff is exactly what we'd like to see and even better if more ppl argue about other ppl's comments


-The day/night cycle is tricky but also quite a nice chance... equal armies may bother to attack on wrong day/night depending on their good/evil theme... but even a hit&run tactic would be funny, maybe a "Dimensional Door" spell may seal the night fight for the evil army, maybe also the light hero got more movement points and catches the evil at day... it's matter of balance imho also on different strategies in the end and thats the fun imho., I think the buff/nerf should be mild anyways. Something like "Vampires only leech life at night" would be too much. Maybe its just a percentage "+-10% more/less leech" or (+1 more speed at day) something, only a small dis-/advantage.

-Weather like strong winds and thunderstorms would in worst case affecting archers while a titan throwing lightnings could be even stronger in a thunderstorm. A Troll throwing heavy boulders the same, wind won't affect that big boulder that much... what makes some units much more valuable compared to others. Crossbows are much more precise vs strong winds than arrows. Stuff like this everything is about pro and cons. Maybe arrows are easier to craft for your units... so the got much more amunition on that unit wielding a bow, maybe they also learn to compensate when they get better (see WoG+ Exp System for units.) Also possible, with a bow you may shoot over an obstacle easier 'coz the arrow got a higher trajectory compared to a bolt, also while shooting over a wall in siege you got at least some little benefits with a bow.

Quote:
since the topic of mass spells came up; we thought of removing them altogether and instead put up a (scalable?) option of multicasting them, effectively enabling targeting of mutliple creatures, thus reenabling the nessecity of thinking about what your'd be doing; areacasting of buffs aould be another option. putting some spells on multi and some on area casting would probably be our idea on handling that (you could balance the number of casts or the area so there is a lot of room to tweak stuff)


I would still like mass spells, but on a higher Mageguild level... "Slow" is lvl1 -> "Mass-Slow" is lvl4 on much more manacost, "Haste" is lvl1 -> "Mass-Haste" is lvl3 on much higher mana cost, equivalent for "Dispell".

Something new:

-Leveling System for Units/Commanders (WoG+ like, with special abilities to unlock after some time)

-Antimagic Spells... this is quite short/low in HoMM3 actually, there is only "Dispell" thats all. In that case I REALLY love "Guild Wars", the "Mesmer" there is quite a nice anti-magic hero.
"Backfire" - If enemy casts a spell, he also gets damaged heaviely
"Empathy" - Hexes an unit, that also feel pain if it deals physical damage to another unit (damage thrown back)...
"Anti-Magic Aura" Enemies around this unit can't cast anything.
"Drain Enchantment" Drains a positive buff from enemy and heals a unit
"Epidemic" Spreads condition to surrounding enemy units
"Wastrel" If unit don't attack this round it gets x damage at the end of turn.

-Spelltype Hexes: (Maybe for more "natural" towns without big mage guilds like Stronghold or Fortress in HoMM3)
"Atrophy" - Enemies Stats are reduced to state of a lvl1 hero (no more levelbuffs from hero for that unit)
"Barbs" - Enemy gets additional x points of damage each time a physical attack hits him
"Corrupt Enchantments" - destroys up to 2-4 buffs from enemy, every buff that is destroyed in this way deal x damage
"Eliminate Defense" - Enemy unit can't retailiate for 1-2 turns
"Suffering" - All Enemy Units lose a small amount of hitpoints every turn for 4-5 turns (like deadripple)

-Conditions:
could be dealt by units like Wyvern/Lizard Archers (Poison) or Archangels hitting a Demon (Burning), these are much easier to strip than a spell or hex (only "Dispell" should work there), "First Aid Tent" can strip conditions, also "Healing Units" like "Fairies", the "Cure" Spell aswell or even an usable "Hero Passive" if you got a "Cleric" as class for example.
"Bleeding" (Lose a small amount of health for a long amount of turns, only for flesh units)
"Poison" (Lose a medium amount of health for a medium amount of turns, healing is -33% reduced)
"Diseased" (same as poison but spreads between units of the same town near target)
"Burning" (Lose a high amount of health for a short amount of turns, plants may burn harder)
"Blinded" (like actual spell "Blind")
"Crippled" (like actual spell "Slow")
"Weakened" (like actual spell "Weakness" maybe also reduce other stats beside attack only)

-Warsongs/Wardrums: Some units may passively use songs or the accoustics of drums to buff all their friends up to 3 hex around this unit. Counter: new "Silence" spell

-as for new areas: I really love the spheres and timebubbles, maybe up to 5 layers for a map: "sky" (always day, with floating islands between clouds and stuff), normal overworld (day/nightswitch), underworld (always night), "deep sea" you can enter in a submarine or special boat and "special" you can determine on your own, a planet floating in space, fairy globules you enter with a dimensional gate, small rifts into time and space with a undefined outcome. I also love Freds small floating islands in the sky you can only enter by portal object on map or "dimension door" or "fly".

-new biome/town: deep sea: corals, under water biome and a special underwater town, "Arielle" stuff maybe with trident using mermaids, Gillman (XCOM2 TftD)

-war machines: was planned for HotA aswell but never got in, only the cannon. I would like a "Trebuchet", "Battering Ram", "Ballista", "Catapult", "Turris", "Stone Thrower", "Magic Pyramid"... each town a special siege weapon with a different mechanic. One may crumble walls in a wide range but needs more shots to get a wall down, one may be strong vs a single wall cutting in like butter but jsut one tile, battering rams only for doors, stuff like this.

change of actual HoMM3 Spells:
-Inferno: 2,5x more damage (Armageddon still is 5,25x more from actual Inferno spell) now also burns units affected by it for a longer time period compared to other burning.
-Waterwalk: lower manacost down to 6-8 and downgrade to lvl3, coz its too situational imho and much more inferior to fly or DD.
-Stoneskin: Spellpowerlevel = Def gain not only 6 points (actual balance)
-Counterstrike: Reduce manacost to 16-18 maybe also down to lvl3 (only useful for a hand full of defensive creatures imho)
-Landmine: damn useless spell imho. down to 8 manapoints, mines also interrupt now if anyone hits them, turn is over for that unit.

Monster Specials:
-Skelettons: It's hard to hit them with arrows and thrusting weapons (-50% damage) while a hammer, flail or other heavy weapon break bones easiely (+50% damage)

stuff like this

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Anil
Anil


Known Hero
posted July 24, 2016 03:26 AM
Edited by Anil at 03:29, 24 Jul 2016.

No bugs armageddons blade angel wings cloak of undead king dd fly resurrection animate dead orb of inhibition recanter cloak armour attack logistigs heroes diplomacy.

Necromancy shold works up your armies casulaties.

Decrease castle s and conflux s power. Increase inferno s and stronghold s power.




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phe
phe


Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
posted July 24, 2016 02:37 PM

Anil said:
No bugs armageddons blade angel wings cloak of undead king dd fly resurrection animate dead orb of inhibition recanter cloak armour attack logistigs heroes diplomacy.

Necromancy shold works up your armies casulaties.

Decrease castle s and conflux s power. Increase inferno s and stronghold s power.


maybe instead of changing stats of existing towns a better idea would be lower/higher costs of boosting creatures' extra growth (WOG)

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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted July 24, 2016 11:26 PM

@P4R4D0X0N

Here's your FLOSS (engine+assets) Dungeon Keeper remake:
https://github.com/OpenDungeons/OpenDungeons

@HorazVitae
Apart from VCMI there are other projects you could contribute to:

Ancient Beast is a web-based game loosely inspired by H3, remaking the combat aspect.
https://github.com/FreezingMoon/AncientBeast

The Battle for Wesnoth is a "turn-based tactical strategy game with a high fantasy theme, featuring both single-player, and online/hotseat multiplayer combat." It is only similarly themed to H3 though. The game mechanics are entirely different.
http://wesnoth.org/
https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth

Without having the faintest clue as to whether or not they're paticularly well-suited for a HoMM3-type game you may want to look into those engines:
Godot, LÖVE, Atomic Game Engine, MonoGame

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