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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Lore: Are Giants / Titans constructs or a race?
Thread: Lore: Are Giants / Titans constructs or a race? This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT»
NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted March 05, 2020 11:58 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 01:07, 09 Mar 2020.

Lore: Are Giants / Titans constructs or a race?

It is my informed opinion that in H3 Giants/Titans are suppossed to be constructs really. There are some hints of that, such as their skin tone and mind spell immunity, as well as others in the storyline. The titan's artifacts that increase town growth also make indirect reference to giants/titans being animated statues. There is also a complete lack of Titans as an independent "race" in the storyline, so I am 99% sure they are just a sort of construct used by wizards, lorewise. From the cinematics and artifacts, it seems pretty certain Titans are made of a stone-like material.


Giant image from H3 opening cinematic

Additionally, we relatively recently had confirmation that Angels are ancient and highly advanced robots in M&M lore, for example, and they are also considered "living creatures" in gameplay.

However, I am open to countering canon evidence and/or confirmation.
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Baronus
Baronus


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted March 06, 2020 07:43 AM

You cant use mind spells againist titans so they have no mind. So in these are big golems.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted March 06, 2020 08:03 AM

But you can resurrect both angels and titans, so both are considered living units. Even Crystal Dragons can be resurrected.

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Dj
Dj


Promising
Supreme Hero
Always loyal to HC
posted March 06, 2020 09:16 AM
Edited by Dj at 10:05, 06 Mar 2020.

Game mechanics don't explain the lore very well so I wouldn't read too much into them. The game is heavily flawed regarding that.

However, it is known that stone/obsidian gargoyles, stone/iron golems (probably gold/diamond golems too) and giants/titans are built by gremlins who are enslaved by the magis who infuse the constructs with magic.

Crystal Dragons are golems too but it is unknown by whom they were magically animated.

Elementals are sort of golems too, probably animated by some gods who created the Elemental planes. I would put the Dendroids in the same category as golems/elementals.

EDIT: since the game is limited on the lore, one can say that the magis wanted to imitate and/or revive a long lost race (of gods maybe) who wield the power of the thunder.

Golems are basically stone humans and titans are giant humans, I don't see why living gargoyles wouldn't exist in the world too.

Not only do the gargoyles look like gogs/magogs with wings, but there are M&M demons who look like gargoyles:

https://mightandmagic.fandom.com/wiki/Lesser_demon_(MM1)
https://mightandmagic.fandom.com/wiki/Minor_demon_(MM1)

It would make sense that the magis would imitate already existing living creatures so Giants/Titans CAN be an ancient race.

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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Supreme Hero
posted March 06, 2020 11:05 AM

Crystal Dragons lore is explained in first Dracon mission.

Titans maybe have human souls, so they why they can be ressurected.

Gargolyes seems to be animated statues, and they are only non-living creatures to be afftected by morale.

In Liberation mission 3 cutscene(where Bracada helped Catherine retake western part of Erathia), they seems to be slave workers.

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Dj
Dj


Promising
Supreme Hero
Always loyal to HC
posted March 06, 2020 11:54 AM

zmudziak22 said:


Titans maybe have human souls, so they why they can be ressurected.




Dying mages who tapped their souls into Giant constructs in order to achieve immortality. Just like the concept of ascending humans into angels.


F**k old lore, let's make a new one haha

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Baronus
Baronus


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted March 06, 2020 01:51 PM

Yes giant can be resurrected but in Heroes II all unit can be necromanted. Elementals too. So its only game code programming. Simply they made it not consequently. Not proggramed it. Titan is maybe more complictaded golem than primitive gargoyle.

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sirironfist
sirironfist


Known Hero
Master of the Sword
posted March 06, 2020 02:14 PM
Edited by sirironfist at 14:16, 06 Mar 2020.

Titans are recruited from cloud temples. The H2 cloud temple literally floats on clouds in the sky. Why would that be necessary if it was for them being mere constructs? They could've just built a giant golem factory. To me this sounds more like the demi-gods they are according to greek mythology. The mind spell immunity always seemed to me like it came from titans having a kind of unbreakable will.

Furthermore titans hate black dragons, which speaks for a living being as well. Golems cannot "hate". Then again, as you guys already discussed, you can't necessarily derive a judgement from the game mechanics.

Is there any background lore on the MM7 titans castle? It's a strange place anyways, since there are dragons inside, too. Now that I think about it, it's even stranger, because these two creatures hate each other according to H3.

In Heroes 4 titans have a humane skin color, too.

Edit:

Quote:
It would make sense that the magis would imitate already existing living creatures so Giants/Titans CAN be an ancient race.

I like this idea. We could have both, living and golem titans according to this.

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Dj
Dj


Promising
Supreme Hero
Always loyal to HC
posted March 06, 2020 03:26 PM
Edited by Dj at 06:50, 07 Mar 2020.



The floating cloud temple could have the role of an observatory post. So that they watch and guard over the city.
The hate mechanic can also be explained that they were created to merely oppose the black dragons and the titans only see black dragons as their greatest enemy, killing everybody else in their way too.

In heroes 4, there is a different world. Axeoth may be a neighboring planet having the ‘original’ ancient race of titans which the magis on the previours planet tried to copy.

Titans and black dragons being in the same castle can only be explained by some sort of corruption.

HoMM lore is very inconsistent and it ended years ago. I still stand by starting a new lore 😂

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Famous Hero
Making map for HotA then WoG
posted March 06, 2020 03:45 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 16:01, 06 Mar 2020.

NimoStar said:
It is my informed opinion that in H3 Giants/Titans are suppossed to be constructs really. There are some hints of that, such as their skin tone and mind spell immunity, as well as others in the storyline. The titan's artifacts that increase groth also make indirect reference to giants/titans being animated statues. There is also a complete lack of Titans as an independent "race" in the storyline, so I am 99% sure they are just a sort of construct used by wizards, lorewise. From the cinematics and artifacts, it seems pretty certain Titans are made of a stone-like material.


Giant image from H3 opening cinematic

Additionally, we relatively recently had confirmation that Angels are ancient and highly advanced robots in M&M lore, for example, and they are also considered "living creatures" in gameplay.

However, I am open to countering canon evidence and/or confirmation.


In my opinion, Titans/Giants are golem-like constructs animated through magic and given a soul. Crystal dragons seem to be the same, and why Archangels/Angels won't be given souls either (or they could have special enchantments/commands given by Ancients to repair when resurrected, so to look like they are alive)?

Edit: However, HoMM4 Titans look like some big, muscly, hairy dudes that are made out of flesh. Maybe they won their independence in Axeoth On a more serious note, magic itself does evolve and I guess mages can conjure flesh too, so that's why Titans in H4 are like this (though I don't know the exact reason why the mages made the Titans out of flesh in Axeoth. Maybe their powers could channel easier through a flesh body)

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zmudziak22
zmudziak22


Supreme Hero
posted March 06, 2020 04:01 PM

and in Heroes 5, Titans are constructs with human look and body shape.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Famous Hero
Making map for HotA then WoG
posted March 06, 2020 04:03 PM

zmudziak22 said:
and in Heroes 5, Titans are constructs with human look and body shape.


Yeah, that's Ashan. They're also alive (have souls), this being confirmed in their description. However, the earlier Ashan titans were not alive, as seen in MMH7, which took place hundreds of years before H5.

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Baronus
Baronus


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted March 06, 2020 05:54 PM

MM7 is completly useless as argument. Creatures are mixed with no lore sense. Only to difficultly leveling. If you have ,land of giants' then you can meet giants hydras dragons only because these have a lot of hp. Additionally MM7 has no similiarites to Heroes III. Completly another country.
We can only think about question... Why they have mind resistance if they have mind? What creators want to tell us? They are not a mages with mind protection spells. So we can answer that maybe they are constructs.
H4 project was is very weird. As you know we have infernopolis confluxorampart ant other curiosities... Hard to give it as example.
,Hate' is very abstractive... Elementals have the same hate for other elementals. Wizards are warlocks enemies so we have ,hate'... Simply they use the same code as with angels. Because is no sense make different ability for the same.
Only these mind resistance is argument because the same we have with undeds.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Famous Hero
Making map for HotA then WoG
posted March 06, 2020 06:02 PM

Baronus said:
MM7 is completly useless as argument. Creatures are mixed with no lore sense. Only to difficultly leveling. If you have ,land of giants' then you can meet giants hydras dragons only because these have a lot of hp. Additionally MM7 has no similiarites to Heroes III. Completly another country.
We can only think about question... Why they have mind resistance if they have mind? What creators want to tell us? They are not a mages with mind protection spells. So we can answer that maybe they are constructs.
H4 project was is very weird. As you know we have infernopolis confluxorampart ant other curiosities... Hard to give it as example.
,Hate' is very abstractive... Elementals have the same hate for other elementals. Wizards are warlocks enemies so we have ,hate'... Simply they use the same code as with angels. Because is no sense make different ability for the same.
Only these mind resistance is argument because the same we have with undeds.


But their mind can be protected if you think about it. Or they have a very strong will that cannot be affected by magic. Fantasy is fantasy. But nobody said they aren't constructs. It's pretty clear by now that they are both constructs and alive (having a soul and being able to be resurrected. Also, I explained why AAs can be resurrected too. But also to hide the fact that they aren't literal "Angels').

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sirironfist
sirironfist


Known Hero
Master of the Sword
posted March 06, 2020 06:07 PM

Baronus said:
MM7 is completly useless as argument. Creatures are mixed with no lore sense. Only to difficultly leveling. If you have ,land of giants' then you can meet giants hydras dragons only because these have a lot of hp. Additionally MM7 has no similiarites to Heroes III. Completly another country.


Are you thinking of Heroes 7? Because Might and Magic 7 plays on the exact same continent and the same countires as Heroes 3 does. It even has the same characters like Queen Catherine and plays either right before or right after Heroes 3 lore-wise. Not to speak of the fact that many monsters look the same or at least very similar(including titans).

Baronus said:
,Hate' is very abstractive... Elementals have the same hate for other elementals. Wizards are warlocks enemies so we have ,hate'... Simply they use the same code as with angels. Because is no sense make different ability for the same.


It doesn't say "hate" in the descriptions of elementals, it just makes sense that your ice spell deals more damage against fire.
Also if some argue that angels are constructs, too, then the term hate wouldn't make sense for angels either.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Famous Hero
Making map for HotA then WoG
posted March 06, 2020 06:21 PM

sirironfist said:
Baronus said:
MM7 is completly useless as argument. Creatures are mixed with no lore sense. Only to difficultly leveling. If you have ,land of giants' then you can meet giants hydras dragons only because these have a lot of hp. Additionally MM7 has no similiarites to Heroes III. Completly another country.


Are you thinking of Heroes 7? Because Might and Magic 7 plays on the exact same continent and the same countires as Heroes 3 does. It even has the same characters like Queen Catherine and plays either right before or right after Heroes 3 lore-wise. Not to speak of the fact that many monsters look the same or at least very similar(including titans).

Baronus said:
,Hate' is very abstractive... Elementals have the same hate for other elementals. Wizards are warlocks enemies so we have ,hate'... Simply they use the same code as with angels. Because is no sense make different ability for the same.


It doesn't say "hate" in the descriptions of elementals, it just makes sense that your ice spell deals more damage against fire.
Also if some argue that angels are constructs, too, then the term hate wouldn't make sense for angels either.


But this doesn't mean they don't have self-consciousness and a soul. It doesn't matter if the body is flesh or not, a soul can still posses that body and control it.

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avatar
avatar


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted March 06, 2020 06:55 PM

Guys, no need to quote posts when you write something directly after quoted post. It's a mess with reading whole discussion.
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Baronus
Baronus


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted March 06, 2020 07:02 PM
Edited by Baronus at 19:03, 06 Mar 2020.

Baronus

MM7 has only the same models and names as Heroes 3. Rest is completly another. We have another Catherine too. Great hero liberator in H3. And stupid the pompous horselooking monster in MM7.
We have two facts.
1. Stonelike giant model.
2. Mind resistance.
But we havent peace of text 'titans as constructs'... etc.
I think that a lot of things are not closed. Eg. angels questions?
I think that always was in NWC team two concepts.
1. Races
2. Constructs.
It was never finally told.
So angels as rather race but titans rather constructs.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Famous Hero
Making map for HotA then WoG
posted March 06, 2020 07:18 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 19:19, 06 Mar 2020.

I think he meant MMH7. Angels are robots created by Ancients to exterminate Kreegans. Titans/Giants are clearly animated constructs created by mages to aid them in battle. Both of them are inorganic, but this doesn't mean they aren't alive (souls, etc. Read what I wrote up there).

Edit: Deleted the quote, Avatar.

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Dj
Dj


Promising
Supreme Hero
Always loyal to HC
posted March 07, 2020 09:01 AM

One should not rule out the possibility of all possibilities.

Since there are different power levels of mages, each mage has created the Giants/Titans differently.

Some made them as mindless golems, some as mindless golems with electric powers, some as constructs with the ability to take decisions and lead, some mages managed to tap others or their own souls into their creation.

Some mindless Giants/Titans could have suffered external modifications on their quest to defend the faction and become conscious (ala Pinocchio). For example, touching an artifact, corruption from a warlock (who makes experiments with flesh beings like beholders, medusas), the process of reviving from an archangel may turn them into conscious constructs etc etc.

I like to think that in a world full of wonders, there have to be small exceptions that change the course of history and get out of the pattern that we see represented in the game. Exceptions that we like to call heroes. Sadly, the game doesnt exploit this feature too much.


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