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| Thread: Fanstratics - A Spiritual Successor from the lead game designer of Heroes of Might an |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 06, 2023 11:21 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 23:24, 06 Sep 2023.
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Quote:
Also, neural networks aren't algorithms, thus why their working and output is random and they can be "creative", and they just use approximate values.
Untrue. First, they cannot be *not* algorithms, otherwise they couldn't be executed at all (in our current understanding of execution). Second untruth in that, that without art AI *can* create art. AI databases store links to art pieces. Down that art database, and AI will turn in a piece of snow.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted September 06, 2023 11:24 PM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 23:28, 06 Sep 2023.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 06, 2023 11:27 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 23:27, 06 Sep 2023.
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No, it doesn't. You can run the AI model locally without either internet or "links", based on just the parameters.
You cannot. Offline distributions spread with its own assets database. OK, AI itself cannot draw a sketch of a cat even without that database.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted September 06, 2023 11:29 PM |
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You can. See my edit. The offline database only has a 2% fraction of the image base. It is made from parameters alone, you won't find a single jpeg file in there. It is akin to the memory of neurons.
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Never changing = never improving
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 06, 2023 11:33 PM |
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Then you don't know how AI works. It doesn't need full jpegs. But it cannot function without them. AI without access to assets can do nothing. Formats in which it stores sample images is irrelevant. It's just the result of optimizations. One more time - pure AI without links to databases isn't capable to do something at all.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 06, 2023 11:58 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 00:02, 07 Sep 2023.
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Just think of why AI even *can* impress? The phenomenon of AI goes as deep as 70s of 2020. And from that its state you know that AI is one of many possible *extrapolation* algorithms. On five fingers, it just finds a function which gives 99%+ correct results in tests. In 70s that function was just polynomial. But much water has flown under the bridge since that time. Still, it's just a complicated function/algorithm, which improves itself with new incorrect data prediction. That simple. This is why AI in its current state cannot solve really important things, but it's very good in what we call empirical field, as in those fields it function exactly as we do.
Hype around AI comes from that fact that humans cannot process such amount of information like it can. Secondly, humans don't know much about themselves  All, I repeat, all that was "created" by AI is a compilation of existing arts with very sophisticated twists. Really. Don't think that we created a new intelligence 
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted September 07, 2023 12:01 AM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 00:03, 07 Sep 2023.
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Look, it is evident it is you who doesn't understand. But I'm not repeating myself. Just see an "official" response written by AI itself.
So, the model is just "statistical patterns", there is no "links".
Of course, images are used to generate the patterns once, but you coudn't imagine an image if you never seen anything.
Blind people from birth do not dream of images.
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Never changing = never improving
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 07, 2023 12:11 AM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 00:13, 07 Sep 2023.
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Don't share snowty proofs. Give me a *pure AI code* that is capable of anything. Pure code for any of existing processors. Of course, you can believe in our ultimate progress. But you don't know internals of AI. For example, you cannot just write your AI that would respond to your hellos in any acceptable way. For that, it needs *a model* and *a database* of *prepared responses*. Yes, it's somehow more sophisticated than that. But for the programmers point of view, you get response not from authentic mind, but from infinite numbers of ifs and elses.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted September 07, 2023 12:36 AM |
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We don't know how AI works. We only know how to train it. I want to believe in this project, but cannot understand how no coding has been done after so long, even with a small indie team.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 07, 2023 12:37 AM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 00:40, 07 Sep 2023.
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OK. Just to finish my point of view. If you teach AI how to solve linear equations, and then ask him to solve a quadratic equation, it *will* fail. You, probably, expect from AI who've been taught to solve linear equations, to solve a simple quadratic equation? It can't Mind, that the current AI is capable only of what we are capable. It just needs less time to find a solution than us. AI *cannot* do what it hadn't been taught. So, it cannot exceed its creators, all what it can is to find a solution to a problem which considered to have a solution more quickly. AI cannot invent new problems.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted September 07, 2023 01:44 AM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 02:17, 07 Sep 2023.
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Even if one were to take the controversial and I believe uninformed opinion that AI is plagiarism, there is the fact that as I showed at the end of last page, the hired artist also uses, ahem, let's call it inspirations for his sketches.
 
HOMM V vs "fanstratics"
"But that's just a reaper!" ; Sure, if you ignore the three linked skulls hanging by the side, the black chains around, and the legless hovering, and the square floating bandages, and...
I am certain others are similar, for example the "Goblin" looks taken out straight out of MTG design (see)
I am not "Cultured" enough to find all of the sources. The "Cultist" seems to be a riff on the Plague Sorcerers of Warhammer, the Nun is basically Sister Sororitas from WH40k but archer, the Dwarf Alchemist seems to be from Pathfinder aesthetic (race+class steampunk), the Elemental is obviously an MTG design, you catch the drift.
So, at least the AI is cheaper and faster with more elaborate results.
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Never changing = never improving
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 07, 2023 02:12 AM |
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Well, the point about inspirations is a good one. Basically, we are product of inspirations, starting of those of our fathers
Still, my point is in that, that you should avoid autogenerated solutions as long as you can. They weren't available in 1998, and still the game of 1998 makes current games die of shame.
Were 90s such a unique time for games? Yes, it was. It's a complex problem, which inlolves our transformations as humans, as well. We hardly know why we love Heroes. Really, why we even live (!) There is no ultimate goal, you just can pretend that there is one. Why Heroes cannot be that goal. The most interesting part is that, philosophically, Heroes experience is indistinguishable from the *real* experience. Really, you stand at the final edge of your life. 30 seconds to the fullest oblivion. What would you say? Let me, please, play Heroes in the afterlife? Think about it.
So, do we believe that the game like Heroes is possible? Do we belive that we will play it like we played RoE in 1999? No, of course. A game cannot return you joyful youthness. But.. it can remember of those times. Why, for example, new HotA is highly expected? People want to backtrack to their 1990's happinness.
Moreover, we are doomed  Really, if you don't play Serious Sam anymore, you are probably "brain dead".
You have (ought) to accept that fact that you are not then-you. And you will never play HoMM the way you played in 2000's. You are scheduled to die, dear comrade But.. you can catch up King's Bouty series. The underestimated series in the shadow of HoMM. Really try. It works now even on calculators.
As of SoC, I probably will buy the game, but I don't see how that game could be a heir to HoMM. Sorry. I see that the game is a child of love. But this is my true opinion. Games like Heroes don't happen often 
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Blake00
Known Hero
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posted October 05, 2023 09:26 AM |
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Newsletter 38 is here. This time Greg tells part 2 of the story about making the Heroes 3 Demo map and says that due to his health issues this will be the last of the Heroes Recollection stories for some time so he can focus more on Fanstratics development.
https://www.fanstratics.com/fstnewsletter38
I've said it before in this thread and was about to say it again "WTH is with so many (normally non-humanoid) creatures being humanoid with a random weapon in their hand?" but Greg actually states here that he's going with anthropomorphic design directive so I guess that explains that. Not a huge fan of it as I just see the below lol.. and I find myself reminded of HoMM5 replacing lots of fantasy creature slots with elf chicks in bikinis and other humanoids sigh.
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Blake's Sanctum - Heroes of Might & Magic: fan page containing pictures, vids, info, similar games & fan projects!
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LordCameron
Known Hero
Veteran of the Succession Wars
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posted October 06, 2023 01:48 AM |
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Blake00 said:
I've said it before in this thread and was about to say it again "WTH is with so many (normally non-humanoid) creatures being humanoid with a random weapon in their hand?" but Greg actually states here that he's going with anthropomorphic design directive so I guess that explains that. Not a huge fan of it as I just see the below lol.. and I find myself reminded of HoMM5 replacing lots of fantasy creature slots with elf chicks in bikinis and other humanoids sigh.
The ol' Pokemon manuever
Shame.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 06, 2023 11:49 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 00:07, 07 Oct 2023.
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Toad and Kamek Well, Greg Fulton is obviously has a literary talent. And also he is one of those which game had touched millions of hearts around the world.
Fanstratics desperately needs crowdfunding. I can be wrong, but Greg just won't say he has not money for his project. Even if he has enough, he is unsure if the game will be a hit. And, probably, it will not, if Greg won't allow yourself to invite top artists and programmers. See for yourselves, we have Songs of Conquest, which might be a great game, if not its not-for-all style. Some niche fans of Heroes don't need AAA graphics, but I'm 100% sure many of you want to see renders which are not inferior to those from HoMM3. Remember Rampart town screen? Developers of HoMM6 - we don't need town screens at all, update - ok, we need them, hire students and pay them $100, let's draw something.
Town screens in HoMM 6 and 7 are catastrophe. And this is just one example how to ruin HoMM for $100.
Believe me, good games are made by dedicated people. Ubisoft killed the series without paying people what the game deserves. Let's not step on the same rake. I'm ready to donate my $500 to Greg's final project (yeap, I suppose it will be opus magnum, if you understand what I mean; health issues and he is not young anymore).
What I learned during all these years of Ubisoft snowty tries to renew the series is what you cannot make a decent game if you think only about money. Say, why Ubisoft downed Nival? Now HoMM V is considered by a head taller than HoMM 7 sitting on the shoulders of HoMM 6. Money.
And NWC were Enthusiasts, like folks from the HotA team. Actually, I do believe in the following scenario - Greg hires some people from the HotA team to help him with Fanstratics. I know, engines are different (I even don't know if Greg wants to go in 3D), but, at least, questions about balance will be eliminated as a class. Anyway, who knows about HoMM3 better than the HotA team, which dedicated years to this unique game.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted October 07, 2023 12:09 AM |
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I wonder... Do we know how many people are actually working on Fanstratics?
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 07, 2023 01:00 AM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 01:20, 07 Oct 2023.
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I don't think Greg has something more than creature sketches at the moment. It's a big deal, though, from what you can start. But, we don't see buildings and towns, map objects, etc. What would I do? Shared pre-pre-alpha with a town. How it looks on a map, maybe sawmill and ore pit around. Personally, I want 3D in HoMM3 style. You probably saw 3D implementations of HoMM3 towns on YouTube. And then go kickstarter.
Believe me, HoMM3 could go in 3D. You would rotate that Castle town for half an hour if its visuals were implemented right  Like you were able to rotate your screen in the current HoMM to see what's hidden behind objects. And, of course, graphics should remember you of HoMM3, just with new dimension. As for gameplay, I don't see the ways in which it has to change. The core of HoMM3 should be definitely preserved. Just awesome HoMM3 3D graphics, probably 3D town screens (who hadn't dreamed of rotating Rampart, for example?), clever better AI (it's 2023, after all), and the game is a new success.
But detalisation should be incredible, maybe even add squirrels from King's Bounty I mean, that the world should live its own life, while we are playing. You won't notice it during your first 5-10 hours of gameplay, but your consciousness will. King's Bounty from Katauri, btw, is hailed because of its extraordinary attention to map objects details. Now think what can be done in 2023
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Panda_Tar
Adventuring Hero
CH mascot and right-wing
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posted October 07, 2023 02:52 AM |
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I think they should go as far as 2.5D, but not 3D. I remember when I was anticipating having 3D, then watched H5's town, which I thought looked ok back then and then ... I figured out it had no real use but to increase budget. Making it a little more lively having units or population prowling about should suffice. The same regarding not making units ultra detailed, given that you may zoom in to look once or twice, but that's all about it. Later on, you don't care about it anymore. Mechanics will hook you up and graphics will sort of become supporting actors. But the way around won't work as well, which was one reason H6 and H7 were such a fiasco.
Of course, but that's only if this game will have towns and factions or whatever. I have not read stuff, even getting the newsletters.
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Biology doesn't care about morality.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted October 07, 2023 12:40 PM |
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Creatures sketches is like the booklet... If Greg is alone it is not realistic, he needs some people to help him develop the game otherwise we can wait 10 more years.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted October 07, 2023 08:31 PM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 20:32, 07 Oct 2023.
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says that due to his health issues this will be the last of the Heroes Recollection stories
If he is too old even to tell stories what remains of the actual hard work...
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Anyway, who knows about HoMM3 better than the HotA team
Knows about code?
The folks at ERA, WoG and VCMI
Knows about how to play and balance?
Pretty much we are all in the same level here. HotA didn't change baseline game much at all so how would they handle all the unknowns of a new engine and gameplay. Would rather have VCMI people that actually do engine coding.
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Never changing = never improving
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