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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted October 17, 2023 07:16 PM |
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Edited by Ben80 at 20:06, 17 Oct 2023.
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Doomforge said:
Because US has 5500 active MBTs and up to 18 000 tanks in total.
The main problem for the United States, if it is going to seriously fight in Eurasia, is its long logistics shoulder. The Roman Empire had a similar problem when it fought against Parthia - that's why it was never able to defeat it.
Tanks are currently of little value until protocols for effective tank-drone-infantry interaction are developed. There are no such protocols yet.
By the way, as it turned out, heavy Western tanks are poorly suited for European soil (without roads). This means that the United States will have to produce other tanks, all over again.
Doomforge said:
Poland plans to purchase up to 1000 K2 korean MBTs alone (link), and hundreds of HIMARS launchers, for instance.
Are you sure that the South Koreans themselves won’t need these tanks soon ? And HIMARS too (by the way, by the standards of a special military operation, HIMARS is also almost yesterday)?
Doomforge said:
It also struggles with excessive corruption.
There is hardly anywhere more corruption than in the American military department and military-industrial complex. This is one of the reasons for the US's constant desire to attack other countries.
Doomforge said:
Russia does have a unique advantage of having huge resource deposits, but let's be real. Have you ever been to Russia? It's a third world country, no offense to Russians. Outside of oligarchs, it's a pretty damn poor country. It also struggles with excessive corruption.
It is not a developed country at all. Outside of big 3 cities, it looks like something from 1970s at best. And worse, once you get to its wilder parts.
These are largely Western stereotypes. If you visited Russia now, you would see that cities with a population of more than 300,000 people are beautiful and comfortable, they are connected by a network of modern railways. I live in a small town but travel constantly using high-speed rail. But the 3 big cities you talked about are, of course, leaders, even according to world rankings.
The roads (for cars) here are probably better on average than in Poland.
People in Russia often complain about low incomes, but for some reason everyone goes on vacation, enrolls their children in sports clubs, and children’s sandboxes are full of toys that no one is looking after.
This summer I rode bicycles around the city and talked with Ukrainians who fled the war. They are not positive towards Russia and grumble that fancy bicycle accessories are not produced here 
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted October 17, 2023 10:40 PM |
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Edited by Ghost at 00:16, 18 Oct 2023.
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Heh Ben80v.. I know Moscow  In there Cafe sells only one cookie.. Is delicious? At least 300 ruble i.e. €3.. Ok Moscow!
I know in there changed much better city, but Ukraine.. So we don't miss Russian life quality, when people notice and see soon.. So they blame Russian state.. Time is question!
I stopped following Russian Skyscraper cities too.. In there site is community where people tell building news, etc and photos.. I watched many Russian cities.. One the future city is Vladivostok is San francisco style, and then high buildings are coming.. How? When mountains.. Interesting!
And Ukraine is better city.. Believe me! Russia hasn't future.. Not trillion dollar for buildings are helped you.. I don't know where from money, but corrupt, etc stole much money too.. Do you remember football stadium? Putler got mad..
Ok no special.. Soon Cuban or North Korean version, maybe you've seen Babylon A.D., if I remember right. MIBC is the last building! I think so..
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted October 17, 2023 11:52 PM |
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Ghost, please lol.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted October 17, 2023 11:57 PM |
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Ok if you meant photo.. I remove then.. Lol Ok tomorrow! Because I wanted first Ben80 read thread
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted October 18, 2023 12:11 AM |
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Ghost said:
Ok if you meant photo.. I remove then.. Lol Ok tomorrow! Because I wanted first Ben80 read thread
Yes, your shot hit the target, what can I say, lol.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted October 18, 2023 12:16 AM |
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Ben80 said:
Ghost said:
Ok if you meant photo.. I remove then.. Lol Ok tomorrow! Because I wanted first Ben80 read thread
Yes, your shot hit the target, what can I say, lol.
Thanks
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted October 18, 2023 10:50 AM |
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Ben80 said:
The main problem for the United States, if it is going to seriously fight in Eurasia, is its long logistics shoulder. The Roman Empire had a similar problem when it fought against Parthia - that's why it was never able to defeat it.
Implying what, exactly? That Putin will not face those challenges?
As for Eurasian wars:
So far his only war is against a non-NATO country that also happens to be the poorest and most corrupted countries in Europe. And here's the result:
- around 5% territory occupied (after almost 2 years of war) with documented losses that are probably worth more than the bit of land they "annexed" (on paper only, since war isn't over yet and can swing both ways).
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html
That's, for instance, 2404 destroyed tanks that have visual confirmation (picture, recording). There are obviously also losses that weren't recorded/documented, especially in the hot zones. Which makes it, what, 3000 tanks alone?
You'll probably reply that NATO has been supplying Ukraine with weapons. Well, yes. But not with soldiers, and not with the most modern tools either. And the numbers weren't that great anyway. Took them almost 2 years to send 31 Abrams tanks, for instance and IIRC they didn't even get used yet. USA has thousands of those. Ukraine received a couple dozen modern tanks, a couple dozen artillery pieces and a couple dozen HIMARS launchers. Putin can't even beat those.
Ben80 said:
Tanks are currently of little value until protocols for effective tank-drone-infantry interaction are developed. There are no such protocols yet.
It was just a numerical comparison.
Ben80 said:
By the way, as it turned out, heavy Western tanks are poorly suited for European soil (without roads). This means that the United States will have to produce other tanks, all over again.
You mean Ukrainian soil. It's different from country to country. Often it's enough to develop different tracks.
Ben80 said:
Are you sure that the South Koreans themselves won’t need these tanks soon ? And HIMARS too (by the way, by the standards of a special military operation, HIMARS is also almost yesterday)?
Hopefully they won't.
HIMARS may be old, but Russia destroyed precisely 0 HIMARS launchers despite hunting for them for propaganda reasons & HIMARS launchers scored countless kills/damage inflicted to critical objects. For "almost yesterday", it seems fairly effective.
Ben80 said:
There is hardly anywhere more corruption than in the American military department and military-industrial complex. This is one of the reasons for the US's constant desire to attack other countries.
I don't want to repeat the w- word again...
USA isn't the subject, Russia is. And Russian corruption is extreme.
https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/corruption-rank
yes, it's a perceived corruption rank (which you'll probably dismiss as fake western propganda or whatnot), but Russia is among such "powers" as Mauritiania and Cameroon and is ranked at 137th of 180 countries. Oh yeah, Ukraine is 116th.
Ben80 said:
These are largely Western stereotypes. If you visited Russia now, you would see that cities with a population of more than 300,000 people are beautiful and comfortable, they are connected by a network of modern railways. I live in a small town but travel constantly using high-speed rail. But the 3 big cities you talked about are, of course, leaders, even according to world rankings.
I have been to Russia. I have some Russian friends, though obviously not the hail-putin kind of Russians.
The top 3 are nice, like I said. But they stand out, the average town on the other hand... ugh.
Quote:
The roads (for cars) here are probably better on average than in Poland.
I sincerely hope you are joking.
Yes, Poland has a fair share of poor/disgusting cities, because Poland isn't a rich country. But we don't pose as one.
Let's take Syktyvkar.
https://joemonster.org/art/34013
In 2015, this city has been the 6th Russian city GDP/capita, iirc. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Dude, this looks like something out of Mad Max. Good roads, you say?
I am aware that it's probably the poorest part of the town, but good Lord. I assure you, you won't find such a muddy mess in Polish 6th city GDP/capita wise. Not where there are residental buildings, at least.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted October 18, 2023 11:13 AM |
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Doomforge said:
HIMARS may be old, but Russia destroyed precisely 0 HIMARS launchers despite hunting for them for propaganda reasons & HIMARS launchers scored countless kills/damage inflicted to critical objects. For "almost yesterday", it seems fairly effective.
No that's not true. The same propaganda as "fact" that zero of F-15 was shot down in battle (this does not mean Ukraine).
Doomforge said:
USA isn't the subject, Russia is.
You cannot make such rules in a discussion. This is as stupid as whataboutism. If the topic is called “Yep, Putin is going to war,” this does not mean that every sentence must contain Putin’s name, and there cannot be someone else’s name.
Otherwise we would have to create a huge number of different topics, each of which would have a very strange conversation.
You are just trying to escape reality.
Doomforge said:
And Russian corruption is extreme.
https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/corruption-rank
In all Western ratings (in any field and on any issue) the political component is 90%, which makes these ratings meaningless for reasonable people.
Doomforge said:
I have been to Russia.
Apparently you haven’t been to Russia for a long time. Now every year there are many positive changes.
Doomforge said:
Let's take Syktyvkar.
There is no need to take Syktyvkar for proof. It’s like taking a photograph of people living in boxes in the poorest quarter of New York and saying that in the USA everyone lives so terribly poorly.
So this is not a joke - the roads in Russia really are better than in Poland.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 18, 2023 11:19 AM |
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lol Doom, you really hate the russians.
Moscow aerial
I was in Moscow in 2020, I was bluffed, galaxies away from what is Paris today. Clean, secure, people agreeable, it changes from the norm.
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Era II mods and utilities
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 18, 2023 11:23 AM |
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He said with the exception of the 3 biggest cities which would obviously include Moscow.
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted October 18, 2023 11:27 AM |
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Salamandre said:
lol Doom, you really hate the russians.
He tries to be calm/objective, but it only works sometimes. I also have the impression that somewhere he has something wired into his psyche about the Russians.
Salamandre said:
I was in Moscow in 2020, I was bluffed, galaxies away from what is Paris today. Clean, secure, people agreeable, it changes from the norm.
By the way, I'm not very happy with Moscow. But, for example, I very like Nizhny Novgorod, which is not one of those 3 cities.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted October 18, 2023 11:52 AM |
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Ben80 said:
No that's not true.
Too bad there is absolutely no proof.
Ben80 said:
You cannot make such rules in a discussion. This is as stupid as whataboutism. If the topic is called “Yep, Putin is going to war,” this does not mean that every sentence must contain Putin’s name, and there cannot be someone else’s name.
Otherwise we would have to create a huge number of different topics, each of which would have a very strange conversation.
You are just trying to escape reality.
No, I am trying to escape thread derailment. While making comparisons is very welcome, avoiding answers and instead derailing the topic by moving on to a different topic isn't.
Thus, if you try to form a counter to a statement, it should never be "I will not comment, BUT USA...".
You are very welcome to talk about USA after you've made a reply that is on topic.
Ben80 said:
In all Western ratings (in any field and on any issue) the political component is 90%, which makes these ratings meaningless for reasonable people.
And how are we actually going to discuss things if you dismiss everything as propaganda?
What will you propose instead? Russian sources, clearly not biased (especially coming from a country that censors internet...) ?
Or maybe anecdotal evidence?
I have no idea what proof would be "suitable".
Ben80 said:
Apparently you haven’t been to Russia for a long time. Now every year there are many positive changes.
Probably. But there's still a long road ahead of your country.
Ben80 said:
There is no need to take Syktyvkar for proof. It’s like taking a photograph of people living in boxes in the poorest quarter of New York and saying that in the USA everyone lives so terribly poorly.
We're not showing bum parts of Syktyvkar, we're showing the state of its infrastructure (roads in particular). What the hell happened there anyway?
Ben80 said:
So this is not a joke - the roads in Russia really are better than in Poland.
Without any proof, all we can offer each other is anecdotal evidence, so obviously we're not going to convince each other.
Salamandre said:
I was in Moscow in 2020, I was bluffed, galaxies away from what is Paris today. Clean, secure, people agreeable, it changes from the norm.
I specifically mentioned that the top 3 cities in Russia are something entirely different. Moscow is among those.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted October 18, 2023 12:36 PM |
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If anyone doesn’t understand, in the photo above it’s the wonderful Nizhny Novgorod, not Moscow.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted October 18, 2023 01:35 PM |
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@road
Yes I followed and I've seen photos.. In there tolls, or you can see Moscow has good road.. If you think that only Moscow, and other cities.. You are wrong, road made Moscow - St. Petersburg - Helsinki, for example.. 1990's you can see yellow wooden houses in Moscow city near bridge.. Now's high buildings in there.. And those can't leave a old road.. Trillion dollar goes to the only construction.. And they haven't cash trillion dollars, but it flows into construction when needed. But Ukraine means money flows end..
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted October 18, 2023 02:13 PM |
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Edited by Ben80 at 14:18, 18 Oct 2023.
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The ex-Deputy Minister of Defense of Poland, Czeslaw Mroczek, who is applying for the post of Minister of Defense from the “Civil Coalition”, went over the Polish troops in more detail, who said:
-production of Polish self-propelled guns “Crab” will be restored;
-Korean weapons will fade into the background;
-300 thousand troops are pure propaganda;
-to purchase 100 helicopters, we need 400 pilots, which we don’t have;
-Apache helicopters and Abrams tanks are too expensive;
-TerO troops will be reassigned to the chief of the general staff;
-The strategic defeat of Russia is vital for Poland.
In turn, the press secretary of the parliamentary club of the Left Party, Marek Kacprzak, voiced the party’s position:
-supplies of ammunition and military equipment to the Armed Forces of Ukraine must continue;
-the nature of the presence of NATO troops in Poland must be permanent;
-the Polish air defense and missile defense system will be created no earlier than 2030;
-in recent years, more than 35 thousand people have left military service;
-in the Armed Forces there are unhealthy interpersonal relationships, an absolute shortage of everything, a shortage of weapons and equipment, total supply problems.
As we see, despite serious problems in the development of the armed forces of Poland, the new government of the “Coalition” will for the most part maintain a confrontational course towards Russia and Belarus, will continue to purchase weapons and prepare for aggression against our states.
A tank in every house and an aircraft carrier in every pond...
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted October 18, 2023 07:29 PM |
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What do you expect us to do after you've invaded our neighbour?
Disarm our forces? do nothing and hope for the best?
We're afraid of Russian army. Duh.
Ben80 said:
prepare for aggression against our states.
Are you implying we're going to attack Russia?
With what? Those Abrams tanks we don't have?
Bro, we're pissing our pants here that you guys invade us next.
Who the heck would attack a country with thousands of nuclear weapons?
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted October 18, 2023 07:53 PM |
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A very important! Putin's 6 big lies.. You need translator!  Ok link: Finnish IS news I thankee you, if you read link..
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted October 19, 2023 06:15 AM |
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Doomforge said:
We're afraid of Russian army. Duh.
Even if Russia achieves what it wanted in Ukraine, there is no point in moving further west. If there are American bases there (for example, in Poland), then I can’t imagine how it would be possible to attack Poland. And if these bases are not there, then I also see no point in attacking (although there may be other opinions, as I understand). Occupying a foreign country that cannot be integrated is only a cost and no benefit. And Poland is a country that cannot be integrated by Russia (at least in the world that we see today).
Countries that quarrel with their neighbors punish themselves - the flow of goods stops and both warring parties become logistical dead ends.
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Pol
Known Hero
.^.
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posted October 22, 2023 11:06 AM |
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Ben80 said:
A tank in every house and an aircraft carrier in every pond...
It's the same strategy which russia use and indeed, it's not very wise.
I also agree with your second point
Ben80 said:
Countries that quarrel with their neighbors punish themselves - the flow of goods stops and both warring parties become logistical dead ends.
Russia should not be doing that, it's bad for business. But if someone is as much greedy as russian neo-elite, they see things differently over their super inflated egos.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted October 22, 2023 05:32 PM |
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Frontline news - pretty optimistic for Ukraine.
Oryx posted a list of destroyed equipment - both sides, of course - each documented with a video or picture, with the exception of Russian KA-52s since the severity of their damage is up for debate.
Russian loses (from 18.10 to 21.10):
The amount of expensive Ka-52s destroyed and damaged beyond repair is spectacular. Ka-52 is worth around 16 million dollars, so at worst (for Russians) they have lost 240 millions of dollars in those ATACMS strikes on helicopters alone. Though it's likele some of those will be possible to repair, but again, it also costs money.
Ukrainian losses:
Sal or Ben will probably claim propaganda or whatever but Oryx is actually very reliable, and has been called "the most reliable source of casualties - from both sides - in this entire conflict" by Forbes. They refuse to post a casualty without a proof. Some vehicles that were claimed to be Russian (and turned Ukrainian) and vice versa were corrected afterwards, so there is no fake data there.
So, to our pro-Russian friends here: how does THAT fit into your "Ukraine is doomed" narration, huh?
Looks like Russians are taking a massive beating. That ridiculous Awdijiwka assault looking like something from "Enemy at gates" movie.
And "Enemy at gates" is a false narrative that Soviets were morons that sent wave after wave to be gunned down by entrenched Germans. We have some interviews with survivors available and it wasn't like that at all.
Oh well. I guess Soviets had better commanders than modern Russian army. What the hell are you trying to achieve with that meat grinder? So many losses to capture a town populated by 30,000 people - with almost no effect but very small territorial advances - gah.
Meanwhile, small Ukrainian forces crossed Dniepr. It appears that the forces getting massacred at Awdijiwka were originally at Dniepr line of defense. We'll see if Ukrainians will manage to find an opening.
TL;DR the war is far from over. We cannot even say who'll win, which is quite astonishing, because 2 years ago people thought Russian army is only second to US Army and quite capable of defeating any European country without breaking a sweat.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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This thread is pages long: 
