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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted March 07, 2022 10:43 AM |
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For Poland, Norway Finland of Sweden Estonia Lithuania Lotwy Moldavia Romania Georgia is our war. We have borders from Russia and millions of outgoing. Russia needs denazification and it must be stopped in Ukraine and not spill. Like with Hitler any step back.
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted March 07, 2022 10:50 AM |
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There was no chance for diplomacy, at all. Do you know that Zelensky asked Putin multiple times to meet and discuss before the invasion? Do you remember that different leaders including Erdogan or Bennet wanted to be mediators in these negotiations?
There are simply totally different positions. Russian position is basically that Ukraine isn't a real country (created by Lenin and similar nonsense) which leaves too little for Ukraine, but to defend. And Russia didn't want to negotiate, it wanted war before it's too late. Russia was the only initiator of this deadly war and must be punished.
I strongly believe that the story about "anti-Russian alliance" that encircles Russia is just another message for Western people that Russians use to justify the invasion while this is very far from the real objectives. Putin was a KGB agent who was in Eastern Germany during the fall of Berlin wall and the break up of Soviet Union was the greatest personal catastrophe for his life. He didn't want a demilitarized, denazified and neutral Ukraine, he wanted Ukraine UNDER CONTROL. KGB mindset and all those SPHERES OF INFLUENCES and other ghosts from the past.
Do you know that this year would be 100 years anniversary from the creation of Soviet Union? What would be the best way for Russians to celebrate it? With a small victorious war over Ukraine and taking Ukraine under control. Ukraine, Belarus, what's next? Moldova? Kazakhstan?
Have you heard the story that Russian propagandistic news agency RIA Novosti has forgotten to delete an article about the "victory" over Ukraine planned for publication on Feb 26 and it went live and then it was deleted, but there's a webarchive, lol 
Here's an article in Russianand translation to English. I call to everybody who wants to better understand Russians to carefully read that. It will definitely shed some light on their real intentions.
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted March 07, 2022 11:11 AM |
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The United States had 30 years after the end of the Cold War to build a just peace on Earth. However, instead they did a huge amount of trouble and turned reasonable people against themselves.
With the help of Ukraine, they managed to quarrel Europe and Russia. Now Europe is completely dependent on them and becomes a market for their gas.
Everything that is happening in Ukraine now, the United States planned in advance.
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted March 07, 2022 11:14 AM |
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Baronus said:
For Poland, Norway Finland of Sweden Estonia Lithuania Lotwy Moldavia Romania Georgia is our war. We have borders from Russia and millions of outgoing. Russia needs denazification and it must be stopped in Ukraine and not spill. Like with Hitler any step back.
At the beginning of World War II, when Hitler occupied Czechoslovakia,
Poland took advantage of this and took part of the territory from Czechoslovakia.
It is no coincidence that Churchill called Poland "hyena of Europe."
Subsequently, the Red Army had to save the Poles from Hitler.
Now the Poles are again looking for trouble on their own heads - history teaches them nothing.
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted March 07, 2022 11:20 AM |
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Stop it. It's not the US who managed to quarrel Europe and Russia, it's ... RUSSIA! People in Ukraine lived peacefully and traded with Europe and Russia and then Russians annexed Crimea, the direct result of that was that the level of NATO membership support in Ukraine skyrocketed from 20% to 60%. 8 years later Russians invaded and that is now well over 90%. Even the pro-Russian party in Ukraine's parliament is now calling Russia an aggressor state. Apparently, Putin is a terrible strategist.
Who are you trying to denazify in Ukraine? Get the hell out of this country, you're not welcome.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted March 07, 2022 02:52 PM |
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Well, you forget to mention that in parts of Ukraine, Russians are majoritarian, thus the Minsk agreements which let Donetsk and Luhansk the benefice of a large autonomy.
Yet, in 2017, Ukraine voted a law about the Ukrainian language starting to progressively be used in all schools, then in 2021 they voted the prohibition of the Russian language, including those Donetsk and Luhansk. Add to that endless military actions against pro-russians, some 13000 casualties, right? Among forces in conflict, there was the Neo-Nazi Azov regiment, founded by Andriy Biletsky, who was saying in 2010 "Ukraine’s national purpose was to lead the white races of the world in a final crusade … against Semite-led Untermenschen".
So when Putin says denazification, that means something.
Russian is the mother language of millions of people in Ukraine, also freedom and democracy cannot be separated from the fundamental rights of peoples and minorities. I'm not saying Russia must invade because such things, but don't come today and say Ukraine is some prefect law abiding, respectful of human rights and wonderful Garden of Eden, is just not true.
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted March 07, 2022 03:26 PM |
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Quote:
then in 2021 they voted the prohibition of the Russian language
Proof link?
Quote:
Andriy Biletsky
True, so what? There are far-right and far-left groups in all countries. Is Marine Le Pen far-right? What about AfD in Germany? What is the level of support of those parties in their countries? Do you know what's the level of support of far-right parties in Ukraine? It's less than 3%, these parties are not even in parliament, there's simply no Nazi issue in Ukraine. Nothing. Stupid propaganda. Stop listening to that.
Quote:
Russian is the mother language of millions of people in Ukraine, also freedom and democracy cannot be separated from the fundamental rights of peoples and minorities. I'm not saying Russia must invade because such things, but don't come today and say Ukraine is some prefect law abiding, respectful of human rights and wonderful Garden of Eden, is just not true.
True, but there are no language-related issues, minor things are exaggerated by politicians (local pro-Russian and foreign). Most of the people in Ukraine understand both languages and respect each other. Now Russian-speaking Ukrainians, the same as Ukrainian-speaking Ukrainians use the same Russian curse words towards Russian invaders. There's simply no language issue in Ukraine. Nothing. Stupid propaganda. Stop listening to that.
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Pol
Known Hero
.^.
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posted March 07, 2022 03:31 PM |
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Salamandre said:
Well, you forget to mention that in parts of Ukraine, Russians are majoritarian, thus the Minsk agreements which let Donetsk and Luhansk the benefice of a large autonomy.
I'm not saying Russia must invade because such things, but don't come today and say Ukraine is some prefect law abiding, respectful of human rights and wonderful Garden of Eden, is just not true.
This is simplification, which may outright led to false assumptions. Luhansk and Donetsk regions were having majority of russian population but it's because historical reasons, all of that starting with great famine (Holodomor) which was in Europe and Asia with millions of people died. However specificaly at Ukraine there was enough of food. So what happened? Russians sent army here and confiscated all food, causing death of 2-7 milions of Ukranian people. (1932-34? Don't remember dates exactly.)
And there's how these regions went (again) vaccant. But overall history of Ukraine is pretty complicated and they have almost no reasons to love russians. And inspite of that, they were living peacefuly until Putin arrived at 2014. With his small pretext plan.
So, even if Ukraine is not any "prefect law abiding, respectful of human rights and wonderful Garden of Eden" they still keep several times higher standards than russians themselves.
Additonally Ukraine, was in past part of the "West". Not as a whole ofc.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted March 07, 2022 03:51 PM |
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ihor said:
Proof link?
Here
"Lawmakers in 2019 passed legislation to cement Ukrainian as the country's primary language, ordering middle schools that taught in Russian and other minority languages to make the switch and mandating Ukrainian versions of online stores.
An article of the laws that entered into force in January goes further, obliging shops, restaurants and the service industry to engage customers in Ukrainian unless clients specifically ask to switch.
Anyone caught violating the new legislation twice within one year could be fined 200 euros ($235), almost half of the average salary in the country"
Quote:
Andriy Biletsky True, so what? There are far-right and far-left groups in all countries. Is Marine Le Pen far-right? What about AfD in Germany? What is the level of support of those parties in their countries?
Please.
From 2014 to 2019 Biletsky was a Member of Ukrainian Parliament. Neither France or Germany has anyone in parliament or even member of any parti, official or not official, who declared by the past things like "white race must rule over Jewish subhumans".
ihor said:
what's the level of support of far-right parties in Ukraine? It's less than 3%, these parties are not even in parliament, there's simply no Nazi issue in Ukraine. Nothing. Stupid propaganda. Stop listening to that.
Well, no.
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted March 07, 2022 04:03 PM |
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Edited by Baronus at 16:09, 07 Mar 2022.
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Baronus
Ben stop your primitive lies. You know nothing about history.
Infaumous Czech invasion 1919:
Czech invasion
Poland take it from Hitler after Munich Agreement after Czechoslovakia capitulation. Orginally it goes to Hitler like all Czechoslovakia.
Zero tolerance for insulting holy Poland by Soviet bandits.
Soviet and Hitler begined 2WW
Begin 2WW
30 mln people soviet loses in ww2 ... history teaches them nothing.
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Major Ukrainian soldiers in social media TALKING IN RUSSIAN! Russian language people fighting with Moscow aggresion. Because its not nation conflict. In East they have another thinking than national.
And I warn you who supports genocide is guilty of genocoyment and you will be for this judged by God.
Its not a London derby.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 07, 2022 04:15 PM |
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted March 07, 2022 04:17 PM |
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Edited by Ben80 at 16:20, 07 Mar 2022.
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Baronus said:
Poland take it from Hitler after Munich Agreement after Czechoslovakia capitulation. Orginally it goes to Hitler like all Czechoslovakia.
Zero tolerance for insulting holy Poland by Soviet bandits.
World War II actually began with the Munich agreement. Western countries betrayed Czechoslovakia, giving it to Hitler. Poland directly participated in this villainy, opening the way for the Second World War. Learn history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement
"Under pressure from Poland and Hungary, annexes were added to the Munich Agreement, requiring Czechoslovakia to resolve territorial disputes with these countries as soon as possible."
Partitions of Poland between other countries in history occurred several times - because of the bad character of the Poles. If they weren't so noisy, no one would touch them.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 07, 2022 04:26 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 16:38, 07 Mar 2022.
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Why aren't international peacekeeping forces in Ukraine yet? Can anybody who has strong knowledge of history and knows how it works tell me why we don't see them in Ukraine right now?
Oh, well, I don't understand their logic then:
Quote:
Peacekeepers monitor and observe peace processes in post-conflict areas and assist ex-combatants in implementing the peace agreements they may have signed.
So, they wait until people die and then it will be a "peacekeeping" phase. Nice strategy 
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 07, 2022 04:45 PM |
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@ Salamandre
I have no clue what your point is.
Polls for the French Elections currently see Le Pen at 17% and Zemmour at 12, that's 29% on the far right and Pécresses Republicans are right as well (although not THAT far right) for another 13%.
Would it be okay to assault France because of so many Nazis?
In Germany the AfD is above 10% AND in the parliament AND there ARE real Nazis in that party (who said a lot of nazi-stuff).
Would it be ok to inade Germany because of that?
So, what is your point with all of this?
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 07, 2022 04:52 PM |
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Quote:
Would it be okay to assault France because of so many Nazis?
This war is not about Nazis. The true purposes are described by Russia itself in the article posted by ihor.
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted March 07, 2022 04:54 PM |
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@Salamandre
Oh my God, an entire member of parliament, in the past, one out of 450, who said something years ago, that's the country-level nazism? Is that everything that Russian propaganda could produce? Really? Also, I wouldn't be so sure that the politics in Germany or France is so clean? How do you like the phrase towards migrants "We can always shoot them later, that's not an issue. Or gas them, as you wish. It doesn't matter to me.". I googled that in like 5 minutes https://www.dw.com/en/afd-leaders-and-their-most-offensive-remarks/g-37651099 and you can find plenty of outrageous sayings from different countries: France, Germany, or the US, doesn't matter.
I'd like to stop here about nazism, country-level nazism is nonsense and pure propaganda, if one wants to check, then he can find out more from Ukrainian jews directly, DON'T use Russian media as an in-between layer.
Now, about the language. You said "in 2021 they voted the prohibition of the Russian language" which is totally incorrect. First, of all they didn't vote in 2021, they voted in 2019 and some parts of the law took effect in 2021. Second, when you say the Russian language is prohibited, it's a jaw-dropping statement, which repeats Russian propaganda, but is totally false. When you prohibit a language, nobody is allowed to speak it, but obviously everybody is still allowed to speak Russian. Open the real source - the law and you can check that there's no a single word "Russian", feel free to check that. This law is about Ukrainian language, not Russian. Since Ukrainian Constituation was adopted in 1996 the only official language in Ukraine is Ukrainian. Constitution guarantees rights for other languages including Russian. The law just normalizes communication in different situations and is similar to laws in other European countries. For example court hearings should be in Ukrainian language. In 2021, the law affected service industry, so that if I go to a shop and ask for help in Ukrainian, I'm supposed be served in Ukrainian. The fines were supposed to be only after repeated documented violations and in fact there were no fines, as part of the same law government also initiated free Ukrainian-language courses. Again, this isn't a law that prohibits Russian, this is a law about Ukrainian language.
Will we continue try to find reasons why Russia invaded Ukraine in Ukraine? I'm tired to repeat that the reason is in Russia, not Ukraine. Or maybe one specific person who sits in bunker at the 10m long table and dreams about the good old times when everybody was afraid of Soviet Union.
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted March 07, 2022 04:55 PM |
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AlexSpl said:
This war is not about Nazis. The true purposes are described by Russia itself in the article posted by ihor.
I don’t see a contradiction between the fight against the Nazis and what is written in the article.
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted March 07, 2022 05:01 PM |
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Edited by Baronus at 17:04, 07 Mar 2022.
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Baronus
Ben80 said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_Agreement
"Under pressure from Poland and Hungary, annexes were added to the Munich Agreement, requiring Czechoslovakia to resolve territorial disputes with these countries as soon as possible."
Partitions of Poland between other countries in history occurred several times - because of the bad character of the Poles. If they weren't so noisy, no one would touch them.
You liar! Your primitve propaganda and stupid lies gives us real 'russian good character' We see it in Ukraine. Now.
Polish–Czechoslovak border conflicts
Within the region originally demanded from Czechoslovakia by Nazi Germany in 1938 was an important railway junction city of Bohumín. The Poles regarded the city as of crucial importance to the area and to Polish interests.
...
agreement concluded at Munich on 30 September 1938, by Germany , the United Kingdom, France , and Italy .
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Poland was not in Munich! You liar! And the best solution was add ALL CZECHOSLOVAKIA TO POLAND with big military industry. To not give it to Hitler. You understand nothing from history. In this moment ONLY POLAND WAS COUNTER HITLER!
Its disgusting what you write and satanic. Lies aggresion murders.
Good Russian characters libertadores:
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted March 07, 2022 05:02 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
@ Salamandre
I have no clue what your point is.
Polls for the French Elections currently see Le Pen at 17% and Zemmour at 12, that's 29% on the far right and Pécresses Republicans are right as well (although not THAT far right) for another 13%.
Would it be okay to assault France because of so many Nazis?
These people you mention never had any nazi related speech or comment, while the one I mention had more than one.
I know there is a retarded version of reality where anything on right political side equal nazi, but please, could you put on pause when serious things are debated, thanks.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 07, 2022 05:02 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 17:04, 07 Mar 2022.
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Quote:
I don’t see a contradiction between the fight against the Nazis and what is written in the article.
Well, doesn't the "Russian world" alone sound for you similar to what real Nazis were striving for?
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