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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 09, 2024 09:37 PM |
- penalty applied by Galaad on 10 Sep 2024. |
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I wonder whether Ben80 is a paid troll spreading desinformation for money or one of those "useful idiots" doing the work of their overlord out of brainwashed conviction.
On second thought - who cares?
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gnollking
Supreme Hero
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posted September 10, 2024 12:28 AM |
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JollyJoker said:
I wonder whether Ben80 is a paid troll spreading desinformation for money or one of those "useful idiots" doing the work of their overlord out of brainwashed conviction.
On second thought - who cares?
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
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orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 10, 2024 11:48 AM |
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JollyJoker said:
I wonder whether Ben80 is a paid troll spreading desinformation for money or one of those "useful idiots" doing the work of their overlord out of brainwashed conviction.
On second thought - who cares?
This is a trauma of all such people none of us can help to. What we can do is focus on ourselves and be a proper human with proper humanitarian values. You cannot talk about anyone's lawn without mowing yours first.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted September 10, 2024 12:10 PM |
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Yes! Other decent Russians think so.. But Ben80 services Putin.. If they know about Ben80, they rewarded by Ben80! Travesty dies immediately after falling from the government, and the others take away Ben80's award.. Maybe Ben80 goes to prison too.. Depends on service level.. Remember the sanctions are the same principle..
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted September 10, 2024 03:00 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 15:00, 10 Sep 2024.
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Damn it JJ you know the rules, why break the CoC so blatlantly.
____________
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted September 10, 2024 05:29 PM |
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Edited by Ben80 at 17:43, 10 Sep 2024.
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orzie said:
This is a trauma of all such people none of us can help to.
Of course it's a trauma. I appreciate the originality of different civilizations and am happy to be interested in even those that have long remained in history. Even the German cultural and civilizational code (which can now be considered completely destroyed by the Americans and the British) of the first half of the 20th century is not a complete black spot. Also, the global order created by the West has many advantages. I also enjoyed living in the world of consumption with an abundance of interesting films, computer games, etc. But unlike many others (who recently received their own trauma), I understood that this is an artificial alluring world (“manya-mirok”) for which someone is paying. Any civilization is born, flourishes and decays. This decline is now happening to the West.
Ghost said:
If they know about Ben80, they rewarded by Ben80!
I appreciated your joke.
Ghost said:
But Ben80 services Putin..
I never voted for him in an election/"election"..
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orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 10, 2024 07:07 PM |
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Declining it may be, or perhaps, finally meeting a need to evolve to make a proper response to the challenge so gladly provided by your beloved "the Ozero Cooperative Extended" of Eastern dictatorships. We will see how history will go.
Just remember that all wars always end, and politicians make treaties, but you personally will be left with what you've said and done forever.
With both sides meeting a serious identity crisis, the one whose civilization died 33 years ago cannot be any more "righteous" than the one that meets the challenge. Yours had already lost its one regardless of the outcome. One of the most important reasons for that is not learning the lessons of history, because nobody can learn off past mistakes if they are always rewritten as victories.
I wish you well and I am in deep sorrow that our generations will never understand each other. Political economy is not a science. You cannot claim that everything happening is a force of nature and at the same time think that your artificially created ideology (the humanity was never ready for, thus the body count in the hundreds of thousands erased from history) can stand above it. It's somewhat like thinking that everyone can get in a car crash, but it will never happen to oneself proper, because that one follows all the rules and fastens the seatbelt.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted September 10, 2024 07:09 PM |
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted September 10, 2024 07:32 PM |
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Edited by Ben80 at 19:40, 10 Sep 2024.
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@orzie,
this is not a confrontation between eastern dictatorships and “democracy”; there is no trace of democracy in the West (or, given your love of fantasy, a confrontation between the forces of good and the forces of evil). And the point is not that someone decided to arrange a “replay”. Russia (more precisely, its oligarchs) agreed to second and third roles in the world and even to the loss of its civilizational code (as happened with Germany). It’s just that the “masters of the world” have “lost their shores”.
Just look at the changes in GDP charts since the early 2000s - the West's share has fallen significantly and will continue to fall. The West has not come up with anything other than war to try to change this (why Russia was chosen as the enemy with its very small formal GDP is a separate question; we can delve into the reasoning for a long time; simply put, it’s about Russia’s natural resources). Unfortunately, you are starting from fundamentally incorrect premises.
orzie said:
Just remember that all wars always end, and politicians make treaties,
but you personally will be left with what you've said and done forever.
I agree with this, life and war are not a game, it’s easy to talk about this until the war comes to your home..
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted September 10, 2024 08:02 PM |
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One could talk about the presence of democracy in small European countries, but here, most likely, big bosses allow them to play at democracy - as long as this does not interfere with serious matters. As soon as we are talking about serious decisions, we can see that these “democratic” governments are completely controlled from the outside. In the capitalist world, real power is exclusively large capital.
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orzie
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 10, 2024 08:02 PM |
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You can spare me of the 10-hour-per-day TV bullsnow you feed the sorry foreigners like it's your full time job (I have enough at home), I never said anything about "democracy", which is still more democratic than anything that is presented as such on the other side, or "natural resources" which, by Constitution, must belong to the people and they in fact don't.
Living in a world where everyone is your enemy is tough luck, and I was there once too. It is very convenient to be there, because it's easy to justify the poverty, the ruin, and the trampled pride. Many Russian men are conditioned to live permanently in the state of impending war: that's why they didn't know what to do with their lives and that's why it feels normal to interbreed Fallout & Stalker endlessly in time travel fiction, an impossible concept for a foreigner. With the war you wage on these people in this topic, you finally got a purpose, and it is true that no one will be able to take it away from you now. However, your biggest enemy is inside of your head.
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted September 10, 2024 08:09 PM |
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Edited by Ben80 at 20:09, 10 Sep 2024.
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You just said about eastern dictatorships, doesn’t this imply confrontation with not dictatorships ? If not, then why talk about dictatorships?
For some reason, I don’t see this poverty in Russia in real life. Why did you see this - a person always sees what he wants to see. In disputes, usually all accusations are mirrored - I can also say that your enemy is in your head.
I rarely write here - everyone knows in advance what I will write, and I know what others will write. It's not very interesting.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted September 10, 2024 08:20 PM |
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Putin's Titanic ship with nuclear weapons vs the state of iceberg with Ukrainian flag.. Choose it!
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 10, 2024 10:30 PM |
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Galaad said:
Damn it JJ you know the rules, why break the CoC so blatlantly.
You got a message.
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted September 11, 2024 09:48 PM |
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Ben80 said:
The economies of the Western bloc countries are going down, except for the USA, which is parasitizing on its "allies". Countries that are not part of this bloc are now successfully developing. Many "allies" of the USA would like to slip away from these tenacious embraces, but it will be difficult to do so, since the entire "elite" of these countries has been carefully nurtured by the USA, this "elite" is a gathering of grant-eaters who do not care about the interests of their countries and peoples.
Have you ever been outside of Russia? Like physically? What's those embraces supposed to be? What about that clandestine US tax? Which kind of political decisions do you think those allies need to obtain prior permission for from the US?
What Russia's war did achieve is that NATO saw a resurgence so who'd like to slip away?
Seeing as you like to go on about this stuff a lot it's time to go beyond the headlines. Tell us how the intricacies of the evil empires cornering God's chosen Russian people led by the saviour himself, swollen-faced lunatic, work so we can finally shed light upon what was to be kept in mystery. Help us break our chains.
But wait, what kind of device do you use to write your posts? Throw it out the window in no time flat, a big portion of it might have been designed by US citizens.
Are you using Windows/Linux/Android/mac OS/iOS? Remove it from your disk right now, the majority of the underlying code was written by US citizens.
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted September 12, 2024 06:02 AM |
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Edited by Ben80 at 07:07, 12 Sep 2024.
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In a global economy/division of labor, there is little point in extolling what some do and what others do. In order for a programmer to do his work in the office, he must be provided with housing, electricity, food that will be brought to him from somewhere, etc. Airplanes won't be made unless someone gets titanium, nickel, etc.
In addition, in the conditions of globalization, the rules that are beneficial for the “metropolis” are always established, and the periphery (as Russia was in this world) serves it. America has always sucked the best out of other countries - primarily educated people, engineers, inventors. These people received their education in some countries, but for some reason other countries take advantage of it.
Many programmers who left Russia took part in the creation of Windows; now Indians program there. Do you know that Russian schoolchildren and students constantly win international Olympiads in computer science, mathematics, and physics ? but in your rankings of the best universities in the world you will never find Russian ones. the same thing with media ratings, credit ratings of countries, etc. You slap "made in the USA" labels on things you owe to people in other countries. You like to give out statuses at your own discretion (although who asked you about this?), teach others about life (although you yourself do exactly what you forbid others to do).
The same orzie received free education in Russia. Has he ever thought about this? Probably not. Perhaps he would answer that this is not a very good education, of poor quality. He thinks about what he did not receive, and not about what he received.
I do not believe that Western globalization will be replaced by “Eastern” globalization. Rather, the world is moving irreversibly towards division into regions, each of which will produce everything it needs. A lot of things were invented in the USSR (including its own version of the Internet, already in the 70s of the 20th century), but due to the peculiarities of the political system, all this did not develop. I have already given an example that the first computer chess champion was the Soviet “Kaissa”, which defeated the American program in the finals.
orzie said:
With the war you wage on these people in this topic, you finally got a purpose
Why am I waging war, and not they waging war ? For some reason, do you think it’s normal when they speak badly about Russia, but abnormal when someone speak badly about others ? "This is different"? The same Türkiye recently fought in Syria and Iraq, but nothing bothers you. If you moved to Israel or the USA and talked about aggressive Russia there, I would not be surprised..
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted September 12, 2024 11:45 AM |
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Another set of questions you chose not to eloborate on.
You are right, Russia still has got high education standards when it comes to natural sciences where AFAIK they didn't start to slip in "we're the chosen one's" propaganda yet.
But then ask yourself: Why did they leave Russia?
Why do people go to the US, to Europe, to the UAE, to Turkey?
Tell me how standard of life, freedom of speech, infrastructure, career opportunities, environmental standards, health care, pension options don't feature in.
So all of Russia's shortcomings are the fault of evil outside powers?
Nothing to do with corrupt and inept people in charge who managed to take office by means of good contacts?
Why does Russia rank top 10 in the per capita suicide rate?
Why do so many Russian people die due to alcohol abuse? (No they don't drink American whiskey)
Why is the life expectancy for Russian males so far down?
Speaking of nickel and titanium. It is Russia's fault they strongly relied on resource export instead of establishing their own modern secondary sector.
Speaking of airplanes. Now that Russia's airlines can't get new Airbus/Boeing/Embraer or even COMAC planes and need to source spare parts from the blackmarket at a premium, what to do?
Russia's new airplanes developed in the 2000s/2010s (SSJ 100, MS-21) drip with western parts and they're struggling big time to replace those with Russian made parts.
The domestic engine family PD35 isn't ready at all, the russified MS-21 is overweight by 6 tons and can't climb higher than 7000m so they'll need to shorten it by 5 meters (after which the range will still be limited to 3000kms at optimal conditions). Entry into service is years away.
So what to do in the short term? Well they decided to resume production of Soviet era planes (Tu 204, Il-96) which by today's standards are just junk. Even so they haven't managed to produce a single one.
Then there's the other Russian showpiece technology project, the MKS/ISS.
Russian cosmonauts aren't doing much science up there anymore, they're mostly at capacity with the maintenance burden the ageing Russian modules (the design of which dates back to the Soviet Salyut/Mir era) keeps imposing on them.
But yeah, keep praising your leaders.
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted September 12, 2024 03:11 PM |
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Because the system is built in such a way that the efforts and costs are borne by some countries, and others benefit from it. On this topic, one can recall the arrest of Pavel Durov in “free France”. Man has become a victim of his illusions that he is a "citizen of the world" and that he can not deal with any state at all and that in "free" West he can live with such a worldview. It never occurred to him that this worldview model was a scam, with the help of which the metropolis is sucking out many naive creative people from the periphery. Orzie took the same bait.
Every country has its own problems, sometimes different, sometimes the same. But some particularly cunning countries really like to talk about the problems of other countries, and not about their own. They are probably altruists (sarcasm). Again, you are interfering with others with your “concerns,” although no one asked you to do so.
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted September 12, 2024 03:39 PM |
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Ben80 said:
But some particularly cunning countries really like to talk about the problems of other countries, and not about their own.
L O L. How can countries talk? Rest assured, where I live people and media mostly moan about what's wrong domestically. About things they can have a bearing on. Without invading other countries, that is.
It is you who goes on talking about other countries exclusively and how you think they constantly seek to suppress "The Promised Land" to stay afloat when in fact there is no reason to do so seeing as that Russia is "The Waste Land" in fact. They've even lost the plot with the one produce they used to be exporting besides resources: weapons. They need to source them from Iran, North Korea and Belarus these days.
Still thinking that war will lead to a glowing future for God's chosen people?
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted September 12, 2024 04:46 PM |
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By the way, more and more Americans are moving to live in Russia. These are conservative, serious people and they carefully think through their decisions. They come to get to know the country, see that it is not as it is described in the Western media or as the capricious Russians themselves say, and they stay.
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