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| Thread: What if every skill worked like Tactics? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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LordCameron
Known Hero
Veteran of the Succession Wars
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posted July 02, 2024 12:58 AM |
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What if every skill worked like Tactics?
If you have Expert Wisdom, and your opponent has basic, you can no longer cast Implosion. If you have basic earth magic, your opponent says goodbye to mass slow.
I think the biggest winner here would be Fire Magic and Ballistics. Now Ballistics is a defensive skill and Fire Magic lets you do a bit of mind gaming.
Biggest loser would probably be Eagle Eye and First Aid because the tiny chance they were useful just got even smaller.
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What are Homm Songs based on?
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted July 02, 2024 01:25 AM |
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Yeah
WoG has two alternatives. First script Eagle Eye I - gain a choice of spell when going up a level (1-2, 2-3, 3-4) and second script Eagle Eye II - Eagle Eye grants the ability to counter a beneficial spell cast by the enemy. Drains 8 spell points from caster (7 with water magic skill). Basic: 10% chance Advanced: 20% chance Expert: 30% chance Bird of Perception, Stoic Watchman, and Emblem of Cognizance increase the chance. Eagle Eye artifacts now form a combination artifact that further increases the chance to counter a spell by 30%.
Reddit thinks the next HotA version offers WoG's Eagle Eye script..
I think that Eagle Eye "steals" your casted spell, if it accepts an opponent learns to new spell in a battlefield, and Eagle Eye "stole" your casted spell doesn't effect any, thus it moved to an opponent. If good idea? What yet? If your spell is also lost your handbook and mage guilds. Hands down.
Yea it needs Eagle Eye, thus OP, not First Aid. IMO..
I like no mass slow and Implosion  HotA can't agree with you, magic resistances are banned in HotA.
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted July 02, 2024 10:57 AM |
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I like the idea, a fresh one for a plugin. Have, at least, Basic Earth Magic, and your opponent must say goodbye to Mass Slow Needs some adjustments here and there for certain skills though.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted July 02, 2024 02:06 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 14:09, 02 Jul 2024.
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Well, I've written a plugin to implement and test your idea. See for yourself how things would work.
https://handbookhmm.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=2305
Though the Wisdom portion, the way you've described it, isn't implemented yet, as Wisdom is needed to learn spells, not to cast them.
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted July 02, 2024 03:56 PM |
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Edited by heymlich at 15:59, 02 Jul 2024.
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How would this work on leadership? Will it just cancel out enemy leadership, or will it reduce enemy morale? If it is the latter, leadership would move up my priority list quite a bit.
And what about armorer specialists vs hero with expert armorer (without the special)?
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted July 02, 2024 05:53 PM |
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Basically, it works like this -
attackerSSkillMastery = attackerSSkillMastery - min(attackerSSkillMastery, defenderSkillMastery);
defenderSSkillMastery = defenderSSkillMastery - min(attackerSSkillMastery, defenderSkillMastery);
So, a hero with the highest skill mastery will get decreased level of that skill (by that of his opponent), while his opponent will effectively loose his skill.
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LordCameron
Known Hero
Veteran of the Succession Wars
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posted July 02, 2024 06:23 PM |
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AlexSpl said:
Well, I've written a plugin to implement and test your idea. See for yourself how things would work.
https://handbookhmm.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=2305
Though the Wisdom portion, the way you've described it, isn't implemented yet, as Wisdom is needed to learn spells, not to cast them.
Damn, that's awesome!
Here I am just speculating and you go ahead and do it.
I can't wait to try it out!
I am kind of curious if this makes Earth Magic more necessary or less. It becomes an almost prisoner's dilemma. If you and your opponent both get it, it sucks, but on the other hand, you're even more encouraged to take it to prevent your opponent from getting it without push back.
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What are Homm Songs based on?
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LordCameron
Known Hero
Veteran of the Succession Wars
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posted July 02, 2024 06:27 PM |
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heymlich said:
How would this work on leadership? Will it just cancel out enemy leadership, or will it reduce enemy morale? If it is the latter, leadership would move up my priority list quite a bit.
And what about armorer specialists vs hero with expert armorer (without the special)?
Not quite related to the tactics idea, but it would be kind of neat if every luck/leadership over 3 reduced the enemy's by 1. Probably really good too for versions of the game that have negative luck.
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What are Homm Songs based on?
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted July 02, 2024 07:29 PM |
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For normal SoD enviroment?
This is just me speculating, but if the game would be handled normally, then the (main) magic heroes become even less usable. Since all heroes are advised to take Wisdom, and how the game is coded, rolling it at some point is mandatory. Whereas both heroes would lose the skill, it doesn't hurt the might heroes nearly as much, it's basically a free Recanter's cloack for them. To some extentend, the same would apply to schools of magic. They heavily favor the magic heroes, and if they would be suddenly be taken away, it would again flip the scales more for might heroes.
I also feel this kind of system would push overpowered things even more, since if you wouldn't pick something like Earth magic, you would be in very disadvantagous position - you didn't have the luxury of being able to use it against the map, and now you wouldn't even contest the other player in final battle.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted July 02, 2024 07:52 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 20:13, 02 Jul 2024.
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First, Wisdom is not necessary for casting spells you learned (know). You can check it in the nwcgrail mode, giving your hero all the available spells and then taking away Wisdom. Probably, it's a different story with spell scrolls. As described by Hourglass above, the original idea about Wisdom, indeed, may be a game killer for Magic vs Might fights.
Second, if you don't have Earth Magic you will still suck against a hero with Expert Slow, but if you have, at least, Basic Mastery, your opponent won't be able to cast it. This is good. This applies for other OP spells as well.
Then, this mechanics doesn't work in battles against map creatures, as neutrals don't have any secondary skills.
The idea is about making things simpler, I think. When both sides have Mass Slow, for example, it's not fun. For other skills, it just simplifies calculations, and take away chances, if we speak about such skills as Leadership and Luck.
For a defending hero in a town who knows Ballistics, it may be also a game changer.
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baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted July 02, 2024 09:41 PM |
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Rather nonsense. On fact 3-5 lvl spells would be useless. In 90% situations enemy nas 1,2 od 3 lvl of skill. Better is scholl system like h4. You cant use all spells but only your faction...
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted July 02, 2024 09:53 PM |
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AlexSpl said:
First, Wisdom is not necessary for casting spells you learned (know). You can check it in the nwcgrail mode, giving your hero all the available spells and then taking away Wisdom. Probably, it's a different story with spell scrolls. As described by Hourglass above, the original idea about Wisdom, indeed, may be a game killer for Magic vs Might fights.
True, I think people are aware of this already due for example Solmyr being able to cast his Chain lightning wihtout having the "right" level in Wisdom. I just used Wisdom example due LordCameron himself mentioning how he visioned the interaction should work.
AlexSpl said:
Second, if you don't have Earth Magic you will still suck against a hero with Expert Slow, but if you have, at least, Basic Mastery, your opponent won't be able to cast it. This is good. This applies for other OP spells as well.
Well, yes, but in terms of skill variance this is probably not as optimal solution. It's true that you could counter other player's mass slow, and some other plays by having a late earth magic, but the Earth skill itself would play even bigger role than it does now. At current state, picking up late basic level schools of magic is not really valuable, since they heavily powerspike at expert level, being way less valuable earlier. In other words, if one expects game to end soon, a late magic school isn't in the player's interests. However, such change would make even late, last slot pick before final battle likely the heavily suggested play. Personally, I don't think pushing the Earth magic even more should be the way to go.
AlexSpl said:
For a defending hero in a town who knows Ballistics, it may be also a game changer.
Am I missing something here? I mean, sure, one could "steal" the opening turn. That would require higher level thou, and pretty spesific conditions to be met. I'm pretty sure this kind of scenario would be a bit too niche for players to go for.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted July 02, 2024 10:03 PM |
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Quote:
However, such change would make even late, last slot pick before final battle likely the heavily suggested play.
But it would be useful choice, at least. To counter Mass Spell and such. Being lvl 15-20, you would hardly estimate Earth as a game changer, now it's worth taking, even so late, to counter possible Mass Slow.
Quote:
Am I missing something here? I mean, sure, one could "steal" the opening turn. That would require higher level thou, and pretty spesific conditions to be met. I'm pretty sure this kind of scenario would be a bit too niche for players to go for.
To push things to their limit, a defending hero just looses his Ballistics skill under a siege. Now, he can negate that skill of an attacker.
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LordCameron
Known Hero
Veteran of the Succession Wars
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posted July 03, 2024 05:47 AM |
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Hourglass said:
AlexSpl said:
First, Wisdom is not necessary for casting spells you learned (know). You can check it in the nwcgrail mode, giving your hero all the available spells and then taking away Wisdom. Probably, it's a different story with spell scrolls. As described by Hourglass above, the original idea about Wisdom, indeed, may be a game killer for Magic vs Might fights.
True, I think people are aware of this already due for example Solmyr being able to cast his Chain lightning wihtout having the "right" level in Wisdom. I just used Wisdom example due LordCameron himself mentioning how he visioned the interaction should work.
Yeah Wisdom probably wouldn't work that well with this idea, but you never know til you try. On counter argument I could think of would be that if you are encouraging Might heroes to grab as many magical skills as possible like Wisdom and Schools of Magic, they aren't quite Might heroes anymore.
That said, Wisdom + Earth Magic is basically a gimme for anyone. Maybe we should go back in time and tell Gregory Fulton and Jon Van Caneghem to limit Might Heroes at advanced wisdom.
Hourglass said:
AlexSpl said:
For a defending hero in a town who knows Ballistics, it may be also a game changer.
Am I missing something here? I mean, sure, one could "steal" the opening turn. That would require higher level thou, and pretty spesific conditions to be met. I'm pretty sure this kind of scenario would be a bit too niche for players to go for.
I've been in a few situations where I'm willing to give up everything to defend a town, and I'd win the fight if only the opponent couldn't knock down 2 sections per combat round.
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What are Homm Songs based on?
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted July 03, 2024 05:55 PM |
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Edited by heymlich at 17:59, 03 Jul 2024.
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LordCameron said:
limit Might Heroes at advanced wisdom.
That is an interesting idea. Maybe even limit them to basic wisdom. Can it be done?
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Dowl_Dove
Tavern Dweller
Tower Dweller
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posted July 12, 2024 08:29 PM |
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AlexSpl said:
Well, I've written a plugin to implement and test your idea. See for yourself how things would work.
[url=https://handbookhmm.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=2305]https://handbookhmm.ru/forum/download/file.php?id=2305[/url]
Though the Wisdom portion, the way you've described it, isn't implemented yet, as Wisdom is needed to learn spells, not to cast them.
Hello, I'd love to try the plugin, but the link doesn't work anymore. Any chance this can be fixed?
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted July 13, 2024 07:07 PM |
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Maybe try again. It does still work for me.
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Dowl_Dove
Tavern Dweller
Tower Dweller
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posted July 14, 2024 02:10 PM |
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I tried again, but it still doesn't work
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heymlich
Famous Hero
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posted July 14, 2024 05:54 PM |
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Edited by heymlich at 17:55, 14 Jul 2024.
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Maybe your browser blocks downloads from "untrustworthy sites" or something?
I just tried again and it still works, so the site is not down.
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Dowl_Dove
Tavern Dweller
Tower Dweller
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posted July 14, 2024 06:01 PM |
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I don't think that's the case, I've never had problems with downloading things. it just gives me an error screen saying there is no access to this website and to check if the domain name is typed correctly (it's in Bulgarian, so I can't translate perfectly).
Is the link to a site from where I can download the plugin or does it just directly download the files? It shouldn't be a problem either way :/
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