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| Thread: Buffing Learning skill? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Czar_Ulysses
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 02, 2024 04:07 AM |
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make it a 15-30-45% chance of getting an additional +1 to primary skill when levelling up
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted December 02, 2024 11:47 AM |
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Rimgrabber said:
Heroes 5 made it the best skill in the game besides maybe logistics by giving you 50% more stats when leveling up.
Plus Scholar and Mentoring are dependent of it. Too much to unpack there... It not just what the main skill does, it's that getting Mentoring on your best hero is almost like immediate win for your side.
People talk about how Earth is overpowered in Heroes III but Enlightenment, specially with access to a Memory Master, was completely broken.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted December 02, 2024 08:00 PM |
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+1 to any primary skill is too strong. The first problem with Learning is its experience gain. I think, we have no enough data to set up percentages correctly. The second is that it takes a slot and three level-ups. So, the idea with skipping levels of mastery of other skills is pretty sound without going into a non-Heroes complexity.
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ice_ice_baby
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 02, 2024 08:07 PM |
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Let the percentage increase with the level of hero. Let's say:
- Lvl 1-9: 5/10/15,
- Lvl 10-19: 10/20/30,
- Lvl 20-29: 15/30/45,
- Lvl 30+: 25/50/75.
This is just an example. The real values would have to be well checked and analyzed.
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baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted December 04, 2024 09:42 AM |
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Of course. But i'm H3 new lvl is about +22% xp. So to have real boost it must be:
40% 100% 200%
6 lvl in 3lvl. I have it in my mod.
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted December 05, 2024 11:45 PM |
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A bit late to the party, but let's give a spin.
I think in the past I've suggested buffing Learning to something like 10/20/30% more experience, and additionally giving +1/+2/+3 random primary stats, so in total it would give +6 random primary stats. The idea here is that the extra experience is more of novelty, or a nod towards the old Learning. Also, I think it's pretty hard to find a correct sweetspot for the additional experience points, as something like double experience at expert wouldn't really change things that much - you're still down 3 secondary skill points from the start.
Simply making the Learning to giving more primary stats would make it pick worthy, while still being very easy to understand. I would believe the skill would be solid for might heroes especially, as they could hunt for some early caster stats with this new Learning.
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purerogue3
Known Hero
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posted December 06, 2024 03:19 PM |
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You realize more experience/extra levels and increased primary stats are identical, with the bonus of hero speciality from level?
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LordCameron
Known Hero
Veteran of the Succession Wars
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posted December 07, 2024 02:59 AM |
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purerogue3 said:
You realize more experience/extra levels and increased primary stats are identical, with the bonus of hero speciality from level?
Extra experience gain is basically impossible to balance correctly whereas more stat points is very straight forward. Plus more level ups comes with secondary skills and quest gate bypassing.
On top of that, if learning grants extra experience than you need to get to expert as soon as possible for it to be the most effective, whereas under Hourglass's method you can take it wherever you want.
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What are Homm Songs based on?
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purerogue3
Known Hero
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posted December 07, 2024 04:36 PM |
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Nah it' easy.
Your solution is worse than the problem, but you do whatever you like.
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted December 07, 2024 11:21 PM |
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purerogue3 said:
You realize more experience/extra levels and increased primary stats are identical, with the bonus of hero speciality from level?
Like I said, the the buff would be more of a nod towards the old Learning. In practice, even if the old design would be doubled like I suggested, the common outcome due how the experience is being calculated is that hero with Learning would have one level over the hero that doesn't have Learning.
Learning/the extra experience wouldn't be a bad perk at all if it was designed properly back in the day. If the effect was out on an artifact, or perhaps a visitable object having an effect to last until end of turn, and everyone would be happy. However, when mixed with the Homm3 secondary skill system, it just doesn't line up properly.
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purerogue3
Known Hero
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posted December 08, 2024 06:19 PM |
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It's not badly designed, you just have no idea how to play the game beyond a basic level.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted December 08, 2024 07:25 PM |
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I've a fun to watch Carlsen vs Stockfish.. I like how to play chess opening, when Stockfish played 1. h4 and Carlsen moved 1. - d5, but 2. Rh3.. The same mirror on black by Stockfish.. Thus strong chess AI.. So it knows about Learning.. When WoG script is a good, and you started with troops in the first day, you go to fight, collect, etc You find/get a Diplomacy and dwellings.. Without visit a town.. And you've over 15lvl.. WoG/ERA AI MOD can play as a "human".. Why noob can't play than only pro.. So ok fine opponent! But if chess algorithm in Heroes, so MOD doesn't need.. It promised to different games.. Now's 2024, and only chess..  When promised and I can research with AI, you know load, etc You can see their turn, so resources, heroes, troops, etc When Learning.. It talked over 20 years ago, and only chess yet..
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted December 09, 2024 08:14 AM |
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Where's the report button?
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purerogue3
Known Hero
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posted December 09, 2024 05:06 PM |
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What do you want to report?
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted December 09, 2024 06:59 PM |
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The post above my last one.
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted December 09, 2024 07:48 PM |
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purerogue3 said:
It's not badly designed, you just have no idea how to play the game beyond a basic level.
Basically the whole community has been rating Learning among the worst skills, and this has been true among players with different levels of skill. It's place is at the very bottom of any tier list. Currently, it might give a one level advantage over a without the skill, but even that's not a full level advantage, rather, you're more of trading a secondary skill point for a single primary stat + in very niche situations and spesific maps, the extra level could add something for the hero/player.
That being said, in the rest of the cases, Learning is unbeneficical for the hero, and usually it would be better if the hero wouldn't even start with it in the first place, since two additional level ups are needed to maximize it. The skill is just there to mess up with your hero's level up slots. Rather than making your hero stronger sooner, the more common situation is that your hero overall has slower progress.
A perk that isn't making your hero better, but is actually something that you should avoid, is a badly desingned secondary skill.
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purerogue3
Known Hero
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posted December 09, 2024 08:47 PM |
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MattII said:
The post above my last one.
Which post is your last one?
There is no possibility in what you have said that makes sense.
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purerogue3
Known Hero
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posted December 09, 2024 08:50 PM |
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Hourglass said:
Basically . .
You do not understand multiplier effects.
No need to thank me.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted December 10, 2024 01:55 PM |
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Why is WoG script good?
My Aine heroine took Learning.. And strong AI MOD opponent.. Ok basic Learning says Basic Learning increases a hero's earned experience by 5% gives the hero a 20% chance of receiving an extra primary skill point when gaining a level, and gives the hero 100 experience points per day..
Yeah Expert Learning gives the hero 300 exp. points per day also 50% chance of receiving an extra primary skill and 15 or 20%, I don't remember, but SoD & HotA earns by 15%..
Good, thus it became Stealth in H4, when Eagle Eye removed in H4.. H4 bluffed and nerfed different skills and spells, etc
Ok HotA could give the hero 300 exp. points per day in basic level.. Advanced 600 and Expert 900.. So powerful in small maps.. But I can't say about primary skill.. Thus fast 900.. And then 10/20/30..
Later on I make a thread, name's useful & useless something.. When I already thought long time.. When it must be justify with a different versions.. Mysticism is a very bad, helpless bluffed in HotA or WoG.. So what is the justify..
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted December 10, 2024 07:34 PM |
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Giving experience per day would be an interesting boost.
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