"Something ancient and forbidden is coming to Jadame! Join us as we reveal the secret 6th faction and unleash otherworldly powers in Olden Era! Built around unavoidable damage and ability control, Schism is finally here to unveil its mysteries!
As much as I like the game so far, I have to say that this faction is the worst in Heroes franchise for me. Absolutely unfit for the mythical fairy tale world of Heroes. Also, the game becomes too evil-focused, it's not inspiring at all.
The Olden Era versions of Castle, Necro and Dungeon are pretty good imo, the rest is just meh. This one being absolutely the worst. I don't even want to meet units of this faction on the battlefield, it's just so disgusting... Sorry, but this is not a Heroes world faction...
Gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
posted August 22, 2025 12:09 AM
Meanwhile, I'm here for this one. The town theme, the general aesthetics, the Lovecraftian-mythos VI B E S, all of it is hitting for me right now. The only part of the faction I'm currently squinting at is the cavalry unit, because the dude on the flying snek is a bit awkwardly sized, but the rest? Yup. That works.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
ninjata12 said:As much as I like the game so far, I have to say that this faction is the worst in Heroes franchise for me. Absolutely unfit for the mythical fairy tale world of Heroes. Also, the game becomes too evil-focused, it's not inspiring at all.
The Olden Era versions of Castle, Necro and Dungeon are pretty good imo, the rest is just meh. This one being absolutely the worst. I don't even want to meet units of this faction on the battlefield, it's just so disgusting... Sorry, but this is not a Heroes world faction...
You do know that almost all the races of Heroes are aliens right? The Vori are cosmic colonists. Kreegans are interdimensonal invaders. All elementals come from different planes and realms. Even the Ancient Ones are aliens that came to the planet Heroes is set on in eons past. Angels and Archangels are sophisticated robots that were created by the Ancient Ones to specifically hunt down the Kreegans. In fact what is "magic" in the setting is actually highly advanced technology that has come to be classified as magic because the races that use it do not understand it.
If you don't believe me, Google what the scrapped Forge town that was going to be added to Heroes III. That was supposed to be the town that was added to the game with Armageddon's Blade. Instead they changed it to Conflux.
Having eldritch Cthuluesque monsters is absolutely on brand for the universe of Heroes. The final mission in Might and Magic 8 is set in the Plane between Planes. Which is exactly what it sounds like and home to crazy space monsters.
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"Just slide her down a bit farther. I could wear her like a hat." - Gnomes
I really like this new faction I've been really into cosmic horror for a while now and I've always thought the OG might and magic universe really underutilized it. I would be excited to see if this campaign could explore mortals losing their minds after discovering the true incomprehensible nature of the Ancient's technology. Not just encountering it in a way that could be interpreted as magic, but truly *understanding* it without the context needed to comprehend the understanding. Like if an ant realized how a computer works.
I'm really excited to learn more about the lore here and see the full lineup. I wonder if it has any lore connection to the Hive, which also leans into the cosmic horror aspect of things more than previous iterations of Inferno have, which I guess makes sense because most of them were on Ashan.
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Space was never so much "in your face" as it is in Olden Era. And you know they never put Forge in the game, because the fans hated the idea. The space thing was always in the lore, but you could never really see it in the gameplay as much as you see it now. Heroes always had this medieval feeling, fairy tale vibe, LOTR kind of thing.
Hive and Schism absolutely destroy the game for me, as would have Forge back in the days. Huge mistake from Unfrozen, in my opinion. They can add Protos, Terran and Zerg if they want, I know they can find a way to explain it lore wise. But that's not Heroes anymore, sorry.
I am compelled to agree with Ninjata here. This is not fairy tale medieval fantasy, and has no mythological inspiration. I think that's what these new factions are missing and it's hard to accept.
However, the faction is not exactly Forge, it's more nuanced here. I kinda hope they are not space monsters, and if they are, I don't want to know. I'd rather believe they're from deep waters or something. The space invasion theme is overplayed, and it's not that appealing in the first place.
I kinda like it for its appearance and ice environment, but it needs more. It has to convince by how well it's integrated with other Heroes elements, and how much it blends. And to that extent I am willing to give it a chance.
Magician, Warrior, and Master III becomes difficult task in a mapeditor and story (visuals, not description).. When Hive goes to Avenger, but new faction is "tower/academy", if it looks like a team/ally, but Return to the Avenger (MWM2) showed that is Academy goes to sea, when sea level is rising.. And capitol name would be Snow Dragon?! or its military town.. I got an idea from Ravnica (MTG).. Ok I don't know yet before I played H8..
Ok I like a new faction.. Any faction is a good.. Those should be from the MM8, so I agree with.. Even if I don't like a Forge, thus silly creatures, now I don't know how to argue, I forgot so much, when I talked with Baronus.. But I read Finnish game magazine that is JVC decided Conflux, when first AB, and then published RoE, so you can see older cinema.. But Olden ERA isn't silly 3DO, where is puzzle or esp. Fear spell.. H8 isn't white and black colored 3D graphics in a screen, when JVC made it.. ____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach
It's cool that most of you seem to like the first look at the faction, I'm more "on the fence" about it. Personally, I don't dislike the concept, but I see where Ninjata12 is coming from.
While I love HOMM and I like H.P. Lovecraft, I'm not sure how well they blend together. It will be interesting to see them try though. ____________
Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
I feel the same about Schism as I do with Hive. Both factions take one concept and just stretch it too thin for a whole faction. I like a few of the units but overall, I'm not impressed. I would have been interested in a more broadly defined Ice faction with some Cthulhu elements rather than a full-on faction of different flavored tentacle creatures.
I also wish we could fully go back to the NWC era of faction design, with multiple races and archetypes within a loosely themed faction.
But I'm relatively happy with Hive and Schism, much more than anything in Ashan.
It's something new for the series and feels fresh. Time will tell how well it stands up, based on how fun it is to play, and how well it's implemented in the rest of the game.
H3 Inferno and Fortress were also brand new factions to the series and a big departure from the fairy-tale atmosphere of H1-2, and they ended up becoming a staple of the series and a fan favorite, respectively.
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ninjata12 said:Space was never so much "in your face" as it is in Olden Era. And you know they never put Forge in the game, because the fans hated the idea. The space thing was always in the lore, but you could never really see it in the gameplay as much as you see it now. Heroes always had this medieval feeling, fairy tale vibe, LOTR kind of thing.
Hive and Schism absolutely destroy the game for me, as would have Forge back in the days. Huge mistake from Unfrozen, in my opinion. They can add Protos, Terran and Zerg if they want, I know they can find a way to explain it lore wise. But that's not Heroes anymore, sorry.
Please do not attempt to claim to speak for all fans. Some fans hated the idea of Forge, and while common it was never universal, even leaving aside that at least some fans disliked how it was handled but not the basic concept of the franchise's science fiction elements becoming more apparent in the Heroes spin-off. The attempts to wash out fantasy's long history of overlapping with science fiction and mutual cross-pollination is weird purism.
I don't see where Ninjata attempts to speak for every individual in the fanbase? She's making a generally true statement, so I'm not sure where that's coming from. I also wouldn't call it weird purism at all, more like a devil of NWC's own making. And even now decades later we still have to wrestle with that legacy, for better or worse. The Heroes series "conditioned" a whole generation into accepting the game as nothing more than pure fantasy and in my view that was a boon and never a bane. Regardless of personal views on that, what matters is that it was an undeniable success the way it ended up being. In fact, it worked so well that the reaction to Forge was eye-opening, especially to NWC. And let's not downplay that part, because if it were only just some fans, maybe the faction wouldn't have had to be scrapped. But there were many fans that disliked the sci-fi intrusion and the general reaction was negative. Which is why they had to backpedal and go with Conflux instead. I don't think there's anyone to blame here, well, other than NWC for their moment of shortsightedness maybe, but they listened to the voice of their audience and it all turned well in the end.
In other words, I don't see how it would be fair to hold it against Heroes fans how they don't like and reject sci-fi in their fantasy game. It's not that hard to understand why that happens, nor why they wouldn't be to blame for developing that taste to begin with. Meanwhile the solution was always plain to see: keep Heroes the fairy-tale fantasy it's always been, and the M&M RPGs can be whatever sci-fi/fantasy breed they want to be.
____________ Guide to a Great Heroes Game The Young Traveler
Well Im cautiously optimistic about the faction so far. I mean its not something you see in Heroes so far and who knows it may turn out to be fun. I feel sometimes some new elements are good for the game. You cant be depending on old fans all the time.
Stevie said:I don't see where Ninjata attempts to speak for every individual in the fanbase? She's making a generally true statement, so I'm not sure where that's coming from. I also wouldn't call it weird purism at all, more like a devil of NWC's own making. And even now decades later we still have to wrestle with that legacy, for better or worse. The Heroes series "conditioned" a whole generation into accepting the game as nothing more than pure fantasy and in my view that was a boon and never a bane. Regardless of personal views on that, what matters is that it was an undeniable success the way it ended up being. In fact, it worked so well that the reaction to Forge was eye-opening, especially to NWC. And let's not downplay that part, because if it were only just some fans, maybe the faction wouldn't have had to be scrapped. But there were many fans that disliked the sci-fi intrusion and the general reaction was negative. Which is why they had to backpedal and go with Conflux instead. I don't think there's anyone to blame here, well, other than NWC for their moment of shortsightedness maybe, but they listened to the voice of their audience and it all turned well in the end.
In other words, I don't see how it would be fair to hold it against Heroes fans how they don't like and reject sci-fi in their fantasy game. It's not that hard to understand why that happens, nor why they wouldn't be to blame for developing that taste to begin with. Meanwhile the solution was always plain to see: keep Heroes the fairy-tale fantasy it's always been, and the M&M RPGs can be whatever sci-fi/fantasy breed they want to be.
No, "the" fans didn't hate Forge, that's absolutely untrue. A loud and very hostile subset of fans hated Forge, people who didn't hate Forge - and they definitely existed - were still fans despite that. The weird purism was a more general thing, the thing some people, not just Heroes fans, have about a sharp divide between fantasy and sci-fi that, frankly, isn't and hasn't been as much of a thing as they pretend.
The solution is obvious: since the Heroes already abandoned the fairy-tale aspect with Heroes 3, forge ahead with something more aptly handled than Forge.
While I'm a little more open to the 'not completely mythology inspired' lineups than some here (I certainly think the Dragon Golem from the Heroes 4 Academy is nice, as a unique creature), an entire faction of Lovecraftian horrors feels a bit off the mark for me. Heck, I'd be more inclined to see some of those as neutrals, rather than in any faction.
Lovecraftian horrors are mythological, it just so happens these mythologies are not from ancient Egypt or Sumer, but from - New England.
I dunno, "Mythos" races and creatures have a place in Heroes games in my opinion. I hope they don't do much lore around them and keep them bizarre and unknown simply because that would just add to their "Lovecraftian" inspiration. Since simply slapping tentacles and saying Lovecraftian misses the point.
LordInsane said:
No, "the" fans didn't hate Forge, that's absolutely untrue. A loud and very hostile subset of fans hated Forge, people who didn't hate Forge - and they definitely existed - were still fans despite that. The weird purism was a more general thing, the thing some people, not just Heroes fans, have about a sharp divide between fantasy and sci-fi that, frankly, isn't and hasn't been as much of a thing as they pretend.
The solution is obvious: since the Heroes already abandoned the fairy-tale aspect with Heroes 3, forge ahead with something more aptly handled than Forge.
Well, you're downplaying history and arguing semantics. No one's ever made the claim that every single fan was united in their outrage against Forge like a hivemind, that's what only you want to read. Rather that the majority of fans that voiced their opinion then were passionately against it. It doesn't matter if they were 5% or 50% or more, it's just that the general reaction was negative, enough so that NWC removed the faction. There's nothing to argue about that.
As for your solution, I completely disagree with it and we'll never find common ground here. To me it sounds like this: "Since Heroes abandoned what made it great, let's add more of it but disguise it better". That's exactly what Ashan was for the series all these years, and I'm seeing that in Schism too. Which is funny because this game was supposed to be a return to the roots, but the shadow of Ashan still follows.
____________ Guide to a Great Heroes Game The Young Traveler
Gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
posted August 23, 2025 04:19 PM
Time for some mostly baseless faction speculation: From the clips we've seen in the reveal trailer, it seems like Schism heroes favor Defense over Offense (at least in the clip we have, the hero seemed to have 1 offense and 13 defense) but remain relatively balanced between Spellpower and Knowledge (6 and 8 respectively).
Given that, unless there are some serious magic items and map doodads thumbing the scales on those stats, I'd expect that Schism heroes tend to use their armies more as defensive, grindy bulwarks that outlast damage from their enemies while the hero flings out damaging spells and debuffs as the real winning moves. Their Might heroes might be less magic-dependent for damage, but I'd expect them to skew a bit more magic than other Might heroes purely because of that Grail building their faction possesses (since it unlocks ALL THE SPELLS).
This speculation, in turn, gives me the impression that this might be the more magical Tower/ Academy faction... though again, this is entirely baseless speculation atm. We'll have to see what the faction actually looks like once we get it in-game.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
This thread is pages long: 1 
posted August 21, 2025 07:42 PM
