mvassilev said:

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I appreciate that they tried to give a lore justification, but what's the point if they're not actually using creatures from the lore? They could've had Venom Spawns and creatures from the MM8 Plane Between Planes, but instead we get Ra'Shoth and Aga'Shoth, whatever those are.

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MurlocAggroB said:

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I was trying to figure out what the creature's design reminded me of, and I think it's the Argi from Age of Mythology.

Just, a cool slimy tentacle eyeball monster guy.

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Gnomes2169 said:

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The abilities that are absolutely too much, though, come from the Betwitcher's Hour Glass and the Arbitrator's Frozen Pages. Being able to turn off hero abilities and shut down their spellcasting, even for a turn, on what I can only assume is functionally a cooldown-based ability, is just too much. Maybe if each of them was once-per-battle they'd be... fine, but it's still too much. Especially the Arbitrator's Frozen Pages. Maybe turn that one into a "Enemy hero spells cost twice as much mana for two turns" ability and it would be fine, but turning off magic entirely is unacceptable for a game called "Heroes of Might and Magic." I don't know, it just feels like abilities like that should be handled more like a scalpel and be punishing but not ruinous, but instead this one is a hand grenade addressed, "To Whom It May Concern."

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mvassilev said:

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I appreciate that they tried to give a lore justification, but what's the point if they're not actually using creatures from the lore? They could've had Venom Spawns and creatures from the MM8 Plane Between Planes, but instead we get Ra'Shoth and Aga'Shoth, whatever those are. And all of these guys look too similar to each other, just look at the portraits, can you really tell them apart?

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TheJoker said:

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I really don't get the criticism about the so called "made up lore". Lore is not a static thing, it evolves and expands with every new game.

NWC itself did not establish many parts of the lore with their very first game. As MurlocAggro correctly points out, Venom Spawns did not exist in the lore until they were created for a new game.

If you're supposed to shackle yourself to what was established earlier and never expand the lore you'll eventually run out of things to explore, which is why nobody anywhere sticks to just what was established at the first game.

Unfrozen is doing a splendid job with the lore. All they are doing is reasonably explained from lore bits and expanded upon, as it should be.

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kesnarii said:

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I would like for them to give us more "winks" and "Easter eggs" to hint that lore in-game. As we have talked in the sylvan thread. Bringing a couple of creatures from older games would help with that. I.e.; chargers/Boulders instead of oreads, ice demons instead of the T6, basilisks instead of aqualotl, etc.

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mvassilev said:

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I appreciate that they tried to give a lore justification, but what's the point if they're not actually using creatures from the lore? They could've had Venom Spawns and creatures from the MM8 Plane Between Planes, but instead we get Ra'Shoth and Aga'Shoth, whatever those are. And all of these guys look too similar to each other, just look at the portraits, can you really tell them apart?

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MurlocAggroB said:

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You know what else didn't exist in the lore until they suddenly appeared in new games? Venom Spawns and the monsters from MM8. That's kinda how new lore works. They're taking a concept introduced in previous games and fleshing it out.

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MattII said:

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The issue is, that for all that this is supposed to be set on Jadame, that claim seems very weak, given that, for most of the factions, the creatures in them bear almost no relationship to the creatures that dwelt in those areas in MM8, and often bear little relationship to any creatures that showed up ANYWHERE in MM8.

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LordInsane said:

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Schism does have the relative excuse to the other factions that its "home" in Jadame is literally off-map from MM8's world-map.

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MattII said:

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LordInsane said:

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Schism does have the relative excuse to the other factions that its "home" in Jadame is literally off-map from MM8's world-map.

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Not really. The Plane Between Planes is a visitable location in MM8, with its own creature lineup. The creatures that do exist there are Ether Knights, Fears, Plane Guardians, Crystal Sentries, Emerald Dragons, plus elementals from all four 'elements'. None of them look really anything like the creatures in Schism.

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mvassilev said:

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If they wanted to have a town with venom spawn and MM8 nightmares and some new, thematically similar creatures, that would've been fine.

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"MattII" said:

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The Plane Between Planes is a visitable location in MM8, with its own creature lineup. The creatures that do exist there are Ether Knights, Fears, Plane Guardians, Crystal Sentries, Emerald Dragons, plus elementals from all four 'elements'. None of them look really anything like the creatures in Schism.

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LordInsane said:

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Yes, the Plane Between Planes is visited in MM8, but the "Sea of Regrets" is not (and MM8's map has land on every side but the south), and the general presentation of things here is more "warped by the weirdness" than "from the weirdness directly", and in particular it is "warped by the gateway" (which here is aquatic).

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MurlocAggroB said:

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The creatures aren't directly from the Plane Between Planes, they're from a lower plane of the Plane of Water that's physically very close to the Plane Between Planes. It's a place we've never seen before.

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