| Faction Discussion — Schism |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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gnollking
Supreme Hero
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posted August 23, 2025 06:30 PM |
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One thing that caught my eye in the combat clips, is that almost all Schism creatures have their amount numbers in green text (that means their numbers are increased above their real value). My initial guess is that the faction skill has something to do with your unit amounts in combat.
Overall, with what I've seen of the faction so far in the reveals and the playtest, I'm totally ready to call it my second favourite faction after Hive.
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MurlocAggroB
Known Hero
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posted August 23, 2025 06:49 PM |
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Gnomes2169 said:
Time for some mostly baseless faction speculation: From the clips we've seen in the reveal trailer, it seems like Schism heroes favor Defense over Offense (at least in the clip we have, the hero seemed to have 1 offense and 13 defense) but remain relatively balanced between Spellpower and Knowledge (6 and 8 respectively).
If Schism is meant to be Hive's opposite, then that connects. We can assume that Hive is attack-focused, based on their Grail increasing all of their creatures' attack and lucky strike damage. It makes sense that Schism would be defense focused.
gnollking said:
My initial guess is that the faction skill has something to do with your unit amounts in combat.
Probably. The icon for Schism's faction skill is a portal with tentacles coming out of it, so that would make sense for summoning extra units.
(Also it feels nice finally being able to type the name Schism instead of "secret faction" after knowing it for five months).
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 23, 2025 07:22 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 19:36, 23 Aug 2025.
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The name doesn't seem to indicate anything about what this faction might be, so I wonder about the reason they chose it. From what you guys are saying about defensive gameplay, that's not an indication either. So, why this name?
I hope it's not some inside joke about the state of the franchise. 
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 23, 2025 08:22 PM |
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Charrclaw said:
Lovecraftian horrors are mythological, it just so happens these mythologies are not from ancient Egypt or Sumer, but from - New England.
I dunno, "Mythos" races and creatures have a place in Heroes games in my opinion. I hope they don't do much lore around them and keep them bizarre and unknown simply because that would just add to their "Lovecraftian" inspiration. Since simply slapping tentacles and saying Lovecraftian misses the point.
Lovecraftian horrors aren't mythological, they're fictional. There's a difference there.
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gnollking
Supreme Hero
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posted August 23, 2025 08:59 PM |
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Stevie said:
The name doesn't seem to indicate anything about what this faction might be, so I wonder about the reason they chose it.
In the game files, the faction's ID is "unfrozen", which is understandably a big variable for its theming
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 23, 2025 09:20 PM |
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Judging by this thread, it's because this faction created a Schism in the fandom.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Oddball13579
Supreme Hero
Grandmaster of the Hunt
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posted August 23, 2025 09:27 PM |
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ninjata12 said:
Space was never so much "in your face" as it is in Olden Era. And you know they never put Forge in the game, because the fans hated the idea. The space thing was always in the lore, but you could never really see it in the gameplay as much as you see it now. Heroes always had this medieval feeling, fairy tale vibe, LOTR kind of thing.
Space was always "in your face" in Heroes. It might not have been visible in the gameplay aspect, but it was absolutely in the foreground of the lore and history of the series. Just because it crosses over now into the gameplay doesn't mean it is suddenly off-brand or misplaced. Forge was not universally hated, it was badly thought out and designed. It did indeed clash horribly with the overall theme. If they had reset and redesigned it from the ground up, it would have fit right in.
You are right that the game has a medieval and fairy tale theme to it, but it also has a sci-fi theme that is incredibly prevalent. Literally all the races on the planet were just plonked down by the Ancient Ones as part of an experiment. Magic is literally such advanced tech it looks like magic.
Hive and Schism aren't disingenuous to the Heroes lore. They fit right in. Medieval theming or not. They look sufficiently fantasy themed as well.
I have a feeling if Unfrozen removed the "space" aspect from both factions' lore, there would be zero complaints. Which is a very weird thing to fixate on. I don't hear anyone complaining about Inferno in HoMM III. Or complaining that Angels/Archangels are literal Terminator robots made specifically to hunt down Kreegans.
Stevie said:
However, the faction is not exactly Forge, it's more nuanced here. I kinda hope they are not space monsters, and if they are, I don't want to know. I'd rather believe they're from deep waters or something.
I do not believe we have received explicit confirmation they are from space. But it is heavily implied they are.
If not, they could maybe be something that was originally on the planet before the Ancient Ones came. Maybe even the planets original natives before the Ancient Ones imprisoned them in some frozen wasteland. That would certainly be cool. Either way, I don't mind the space aspect if they are from space.
I am also sure we will get a water themed faction at some point. Actually wait... is there even ocean exploration/maps with water in Olden Era? I am sure there must be but I haven't seen any of that yet. 
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"Just slide her down a bit farther. I could wear her like a hat." - Gnomes
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gnollking
Supreme Hero
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posted August 23, 2025 09:31 PM |
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Oddball13579 said:
You are right that the game has a medieval and fairy tale theme to it, but it also has a sci-fi theme that is incredibly prevalent. Literally all the races on the planet were just plonked down by the Ancient Ones as part of an experiment. Magic is literally such advanced tech it looks like magic.
This is exactly why I love the "Olden Era" name, it's not just a return to the H1-3 style gameplay, it's also a return to the old lore, which is so much more interesting than the later installments of the game.
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Oddball13579
Supreme Hero
Grandmaster of the Hunt
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posted August 23, 2025 09:35 PM |
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gnollking said:
Oddball13579 said:
You are right that the game has a medieval and fairy tale theme to it, but it also has a sci-fi theme that is incredibly prevalent. Literally all the races on the planet were just plonked down by the Ancient Ones as part of an experiment. Magic is literally such advanced tech it looks like magic.
This is exactly why I love the "Olden Era" name, it's not just a return to the H1-3 style gameplay, it's also a return to the old lore, which is so much more interesting than the later installments of the game.
Exactly!
To me this is what makes it so much more exciting! The old lore was so bonkers and deep, that when something came outta left field it left me wanting more. To know more. And even excited because of how absurd it all seemed.
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"Just slide her down a bit farther. I could wear her like a hat." - Gnomes
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 23, 2025 09:59 PM |
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Geny said:
Judging by this thread, it's because this faction created a Schism in the fandom.
So basically a self-fulfilling prophecy. Man, the devs are really smart!
Jokes aside, there must be a reason, and they must have a purpose. But none of that is apparent right now, so Schism is vague.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Rimgrabber
Promising
Famous Hero
Voice in Gelu's Head
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posted August 23, 2025 10:58 PM |
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My guess, just based on the aesthetics and what the word "schism" means, is that this faction's backstory is going to be something like "major settlement belonging to a certain major religion discovers Ancients technology relating to the Plane between Planes in the ice and starts to worship the Lovecraftian monsters found within and forms an offshoot of that religion centered around them."
So the faction would be called Schism because their discovery literally caused a Schism in conventional understanding of the world.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted August 23, 2025 11:46 PM |
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The more I watch the trailer, the more I’m digging it.
Feels like the perfect way to bring something fresh and different to the table while still staying true to the series’ roots.
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MurlocAggroB
Known Hero
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posted August 24, 2025 03:52 AM |
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MattII said:
Lovecraftian horrors aren't mythological, they're fictional. There's a difference there.
True, but neither are orcs, beholders, wood elves, a magic system, ect. Those things come from DnD, as do eldritch horrors. HoMM isn't a "mythological" melting pot, it's a fantasy melting pot.
Stevie said:
The name doesn't seem to indicate anything about what this faction might be, so I wonder about the reason they chose it. From what you guys are saying about defensive gameplay, that's not an indication either. So, why this name?
I think it was chosen as a fancy, off-beat synonym for rift. It's a hole in reality that monsters pour out of, which is classic Lovecraftian stuff. Schism is an uncommon word with a lot of consonant sounds in a small space, which makes it feel more otherworldly and unique than if it were just "Rift".
Oddball13579 said:
I do not believe we have received explicit confirmation they are from space. But it is heavily implied they are.
They're from the Plane Between Planes, which was the final dungeon of MM8. The location was namedropped in the flavour text for the Boreal Call creature bank, which gives you Schism creatures as a reward. Also, the devs have hearted two of my comments on YouTube telling people that the faction comes from the Plane Between Planes, so I'm going to take that as official confirmation.
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Oddball13579
Supreme Hero
Grandmaster of the Hunt
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posted August 24, 2025 04:15 AM |
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Galaad said:
The more I watch the trailer, the more I’m digging it.
Feels like the perfect way to bring something fresh and different to the table while still staying true to the series’ roots.
I agree! It is deeply connected to the series' core roots, but also different enough that it feels fresh and inspired. I would have been disappointed if the factions were all just rehashes of factions from previous entries in the series.
MurlocAggroB said:
They're from the Plane Between Planes, which was the final dungeon of MM8. The location was namedropped in the flavour text for the Boreal Call creature bank, which gives you Schism creatures as a reward. Also, the devs have hearted two of my comments on YouTube telling people that the faction comes from the Plane Between Planes, so I'm going to take that as official confirmation.
Awesome. I love that!
Not quite from space, but definitely from the "beyond". Unless the Plane Between Planes is their name for space. But I don't recall it being so.
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"Just slide her down a bit farther. I could wear her like a hat." - Gnomes
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 24, 2025 12:04 PM |
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Oddball13579 said:
You are right that the game has a medieval and fairy tale theme to it, but it also has a sci-fi theme that is incredibly prevalent. Literally all the races on the planet were just plonked down by the Ancient Ones as part of an experiment. Magic is literally such advanced tech it looks like magic.
As some-one who's been a fan of the Heroes series, but hasn't set foot in the wider franchise, I have to say, I've never come across anything that feels the least bit sci-fi. Multiple worlds certainly aren't exclusively sci-fi, with, among others, Norse and Celtic mythologies having multiple worlds besides our one. I don't know about ancient being putting multiple races in one place, but I'm sure there's myths about that in some corner. As for 'tech so advanced it looks like magic', it might as well be magic.
MurlocAggroB said:
True, but neither are orcs, beholders, wood elves, a magic system, ect. Those things come from DnD, as do eldritch horrors. HoMM isn't a "mythological" melting pot, it's a fantasy melting pot.
The term 'orc' dates back to around the 10th century, though like much of mythology/folklore at the time, it's not really clearly defined. Beholders don't, but not are they a playable race, so they're a minor concern anyway. Elves are extremely variable in their origins, and mixed in with a lot of other fairy folk, so I'm sure you could find some group somewhere that fits the aesthetic. There are some fantasy elements in there to be sure, but I think more of the creatures come from mythology than don't.
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Gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted August 24, 2025 03:31 PM |
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Stevie said:
The name doesn't seem to indicate anything about what this faction might be, so I wonder about the reason they chose it. From what you guys are saying about defensive gameplay, that's not an indication either. So, why this name?
I hope it's not some inside joke about the state of the franchise.
Well, Schism is a divide of some kind, both ideological and physical. That makes it a pseudonym for words like Abyss or Breach, which are two things that are strongly associated with the Cthulu mythos (lovecraftian monsters tend to be lurking in deep places, like caverns or oceanic trenches, which is quite abyssal. Meanwhile, any that linger outside of reality must "breach" the walls of what is real and what is only possible in the mad, primordial chaos of unreality in order to take shape.)
However, it could also hint at an ideological schism, too. We know we're going to have some landmarks for collapsed or abandoned Vori colonies, and Schism has a somewhat high-elven look to their architecture (lots of domes, sloped roofs, graceful towers around the grail building, etc, though all frozen over and left in various states of disrepair). It's possible that the cultists of the Schism are meant to be Vori elves corrupted by knowledge of things that should not be, and they splintered from the rest of their kind because of that knowledge, and remained active in the world, working for the goals of the Old One(s) they now serve, rather than withdrawing and becoming reclusive like the rest of their kin.
They could also just be Dark Elves instead of Vori, which then makes the Schism between the Conclave and those worshiping/ sworn to a darker power, but I don't like that one as much because... I have no solid justification for not liking it as much. I just think it would be cool to have the Vori represented as insane ice elves attempting to reconquer their erstwhile cousins and re-establish their hegemony over Jadame, but at the behest of a terrible, eldritch power instead of their own (long abandoned) imperial ambitions.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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MurlocAggroB
Known Hero
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posted August 24, 2025 04:33 PM |
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MattII said:
There are some fantasy elements in there to be sure, but I think more of the creatures come from mythology than don't.
That's because DnD borrowed heavily from mythology, but it also borrowed just as heavily from folklore, public domain fiction, and even contemporary works like Conan the Barbarian and especially Tolkien. DnD is the codifier for the fantasy melting pot setting that dominates the genre, particularly in video games.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 24, 2025 10:22 PM |
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MurlocAggroB said:
MattII said:
There are some fantasy elements in there to be sure, but I think more of the creatures come from mythology than don't.
That's because DnD borrowed heavily from mythology, but it also borrowed just as heavily from folklore, public domain fiction, and even contemporary works like Conan the Barbarian and especially Tolkien. DnD is the codifier for the fantasy melting pot setting that dominates the genre, particularly in video games.
Maybe later I'll do a list of all the creatures in Heroes 3 and their origins. I suspect the majority come from either mythology or folklore.
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Oddball13579
Supreme Hero
Grandmaster of the Hunt
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posted August 25, 2025 01:27 AM |
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MattII said:
I don't know about ancient being putting multiple races in one place, but I'm sure there's myths about that in some corner.
Every creation myth out there is basically some godly being plopping life down. Doesn't automatically make it fantasy themed. This is basically like Halo. Advanced race seeding other planets with life.
The Ancients were experimenters with life and technology. The Might and Magic series takes place on a spaceship that has biosphere domes on it. VARN and CRON. VARN stands for 'Vehicular Astropod Research Nacelle' and CRON stands for 'Central Research Observational Nacelle. There is also a third one called XEEN, which stands for Xylonite Experimental Expansion Nacelle.
VARN, CRON, and XEEN are described as being large, slab-like bodies created by the Ancients via "elemental manipulation" for the purpose of their experimentations. They are populated with life, and then sent out into the void to fulfill their purpose. Throughtout the series VARN and CRON remain as they are, but XEEN is eventually unified through a ritual and transformed into a round, fully-fledged planet.
The planet of Enroth in the Heroes series, was actually colonized by the Ancients. A VARN landed on the continent of Enroth and was subsequently colonized by the inhabitants inside the VARN.
MattII said:
As for 'tech so advanced it looks like magic', it might as well be magic.
That's.... That's the point though.
It is magic. They have no idea what they are looking at, let alone having an understanding of it. It is like if you traveled back in time and showed some peasant a smartphone. They'd think you were some wizard who could do magic.
The people in Heroes don't understand the technology. To them it quite literally is magic.
Just because it has a fantasy layering does not automatically make the sci-fi elements go away. Both can and should coexist. It is Heroes at its core roots.
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"Just slide her down a bit farther. I could wear her like a hat." - Gnomes
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Charrclaw
Known Hero
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posted August 25, 2025 11:17 AM |
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Lovecraftian horrors aren't mythological, they're fictional. There's a difference there.
Because Cyclops and Manticores aren't fictional.
His horrors are part of modern-day mythology. Tolkien himself wrote a whole (modern day) mythological saga, yet I don't see anyone complaining about his elves being a stereotype in fantasy genre.
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