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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted October 29, 2026 06:50 PM |
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Edited by artu at 18:52, 29 Oct 2026.
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@Sal
Sorry but that’s not factual. Mainstream media’s accountability is not zero, especially compared to its alternatives and the alternatives are not “just fun.” During the pandemic, millions of people actually believed that covid was completely fake, when Trump trolled people into thinking the elections were stolen from Twitter, people marched to Washington and got shot, ffs. We are in a post-truth era and any crap can go viral and cause a serious outcome of events. You make it sound like everybody believes MSM and nobody believes someone on Youtube or Twitter but most people believe what they already want to believe.
@Panda
I’m not specifically talking about Brazil, I know almost nothing about domestic power relations regarding Brazilian politics so I am completely impartial to your take on things.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 29, 2026 09:49 PM |
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PandaTar said:
Flávio evaded the STF and the Federal Police, not giving his passport. And Trump and Milei managed to extract him, which was why they have not made any announced about the results. Flávio has arrived today in the USA.
I've nearly overlooked this, but *I* wouldn't say that being on the good side of Milei and especially Trump is a good thing when you look for integrity, loyalty to the constitution, modesty, respect for human rights, and a couple of other things on a pretty long list, in a politician, while you'd like to avoid corruption, nepotism, ineptitude, megalomania and narcissism in them.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 30, 2026 03:40 AM |
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artu said:
During the pandemic, millions of people actually believed that covid was completely fake, when Trump trolled people into thinking the elections were stolen from Twitter, people marched to Washington and got shot, ffs. We are in a post-truth era and any crap can go viral and cause a serious outcome of events.
See, that's your interpretation, I have a different view on this. It's always : "can cause a serious outcome of events" then nothing happens, thus it is exactly as I said.
People believed Covid was fake, so what? There is a serious % of people believing earth is plate, that phantoms exists, that aliens abducted them. That a woman can have a penis. That Heroes 4 is better than Heroes 3.
Trump complained election was stolen, so what? Hillary also complained, is their right. Trump never asked for violence ; if he did, then I would have agreed with you, but he didn't.
"People got shot" at Capitol, really? There was only one lady who got shot because "she attempted to climb through a shattered window beside a barricaded door". A pocket knife was found in her pocket. And that ended there. Sounds to me like someone panicked without reason.
You listen to Fox News then to MSNBC, same event is reported differently. Different causes, different outcomes. And finally there is an ubiquitous and final check, which is the elections. One side wins, the other lose, depending on how much the information given was persuasive. Democracy worked as intended.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
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You must not OFFEND people - Jolly Joker
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted October 30, 2026 11:38 AM |
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A very difficulty situation, thus pearl tongue, when three meanings, it depends on what you can believe in meaning.. But ancient Jewish technique has been belief between faith.. It can also calls fusion.. An example the soul, lol?! A poor brain thing, when raised weight is actual helpless..
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 30, 2026 11:49 AM |
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Aren't you really not realizing that you are mixing facts and beliefs? The Earth ISN'T flat, no matter what you believe, while whether this Heroes game is better than that or vice versa is a matter of taste and purpose.
That post of yours is describing the problem in its own way: fact or fiction, so what? It's all just a story and the better story wins.
Of course that "better story" always shatters when reality comes calling. The story is the promise, there will be a golden age for all of you. "Reality" is, what people have in their wallet and what they have to pay for the things they need for living.
And then there is common sense. You can dream only for so long.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted October 30, 2026 12:37 PM |
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Edited by Ghost at 13:16, 30 Oct 2026.
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I haven't a simile with an Earth flat.. But my friend who is believed in Earth flat, thanks for Brazilian brainwasher who is studied about an Earth flat science, an example water level in the airplane or the Bible told four corners of the earth and no movement.. (Listeners debated with him, but Brazilian guy had an answer, reply.. When studied in bachelor, and higher, etc Brazilian deafs got such fine paper is the second in the world, and the most America.. An easy dialogue and brainwashing you as a meme..) So he tested, read, etc and he is Christian.. I'm very sad, when hard say to him.. He never understood belief and faith.. You know people read four corners of the earth, and their history, but you've better understanding about the text..
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted October 30, 2026 07:28 PM |
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Ok 53-48-19.. 48 is a good thing, and 19 is risky, if majority, so easy for amendment.. Religion doesn't belonged in law and politics.. The last 1996, I voted in first round for T. Halonen.. I'm not Christian or other religious groups..
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 30, 2026 08:43 PM |
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Not that I'm against keeping religion out of politics, but religion is just one (or one per religion) belief system of many. If you keep out religion - what about others? I mean, "all men/humans are created equal" - belief, not certified fact. You might call human rights - or basic rights - the axioms of social science (and practical politics), which basically is what has replaced religion.
Same with -isms. All belief. Politics being capitalist, socialist, liberal or whatever else is basically based on belief - that this is better than something else and so on. This is also true for the form of government. Rome was a republic, but in times of war they appointed a "dictator" because power concentrated in one hand works better in a great crisis - no lengthy decision-making. Prussia flourished under Fredrick the Great, while democracy has become a joke in times of social media, post-truth and fake news. A pretty bad one at that.
So FUNDAMENTALLY, as absurd as it may sound, a political entity/society based on religion isn't per se worse than one based on another belief system. As with everything it obviously depends on what the people in power make of it and whether they follow the rules and tenets.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted October 30, 2026 10:22 PM |
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@JJ
All ideologies are belief systems, yes. The difference is how flexible they are though. Since the traditional religions regarding this topic are based on dogma believed to be the word of God, when you define them as the origin of legitemacy, you are stuck with a pretty stagnant society. “Human rights” get updated regularly, they are open to debate, when the origin of legitimacy is laws passed by elected officials, you have much more space to improve.
@Sal
Well, if you dont think that millions of people acting like they are being scammed and resisting policies had no consequence at all on how effective the precautions were applied during a global emergency, I give up. Believe as you please.
About the comparison between H. Clinton and Trump, they are on a very different scale. Clinton was kind of whining about how they lost because the electoral system was outdated. She never challenged the results’ legitimacy, especially not while there were active riots about to escalate. Her words boils down to: We LOST because the electoral system is unfair. Where as Trump denied that he lost and was very very vague about if he was willing to accept the transfer of power in peace. He was taking the pulse of the masses:
“Called to action by Trump on January 5 and 6, thousands of his supporters had gathered in Washington, D.C., to support his false claims that the 2020 election had been "stolen by emboldened radical-left Democrats",[44] and to demand that then–vice president Mike Pence and Congress reject Biden's victory.[45] Starting at noon on January 6, at a "Save America" rally on the Ellipse,[46] Trump gave a speech in which he repeated false claims of election irregularities[47] and said, "If you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore."
A week after the attack, the House of Representatives impeached Trumpfor incitement of insurrection, making him the only U.S. president to be impeached twice. After Trump had left office, the Senate voted 57–43 in favor of conviction, but fell short of the required two-thirds, resulting in his acquittal.”
This was all possible because of a bunch of conspiracies and fake news about the election going viral. There were millions of dollars of damage, it is considered by some an attempted coup. You are free to disagree with that definition, of course, but it certainly wasnt “just fun.”
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 30, 2026 10:37 PM |
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@ artu
I tentatively disagree. Imo, the difference is that in one belief system a certain kind of judges interpret the ideology(belief system) which is done by the highest priests in a religious system. Whether you interpret/amend the constitution or whether you interpret/amend the holy scripture of your book is pretty much on the same level.
Case in point (a radical one): protestantism (and its spreading variations), a main factor for the development of capitalism, industrialization, science and whatnot, all by a changed interpretation of the Bible.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 30, 2026 11:32 PM |
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artu said:
Trump gave a speech in which he repeated false claims of election irregularities[47] and said, "If you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore."
That's the game, you go to wikipedia, which IS constantly updated by militants of only one side, then you paste the part which they selected, to have the maximum effect without contradiction.
Therefore you don't quote the next part in the same speech where Trump says :
"I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard."
So yeah, we can't agree. Let it be.
____________
You must not OFFEND people - Jolly Joker
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted October 30, 2026 11:34 PM |
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Edited by artu at 23:41, 30 Oct 2026.
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@JJ
I guess, this is once again, you taking a nuanced factor to an absolute extreme. Of course, religious texts are also open to interpretation but there is a limit to that if you want to remain plausible. You can not rewrite them from scratch like secular laws.
Protestanism and its work ethics is one factor in the development of capitalism, yes, as Weber pointed out, (although some Marxist historians reverse his observation claiming capitalism and changes in the moods of production caused Protestant ethics, infrastructure shaping ideology) but most of this happened during secularization anyway. The most you can say is that Christianity or one interpretation of it enabled secularism to evolve. But from that point on, separation of church and state is an obviously feasible upgrade to clerics busting their heads out to make laws compatible with holy scripture. There is no need to take a “post-modern” revision on this.
@Sal
It’s Wikipedia, not New York Times. That is case by example, you act as if Wikipedia is as biased as Breitbart. Even if you consider that quote a misrepresentation, and it does look like that, the rest is all factual reporting. Drawing a symmetry between Clinton’s reaction and Trump’s case is unpropotional by any rational standard.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 30, 2026 11:51 PM |
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Of course Wokepedia is biased and uses manipulation at unprecedented levels, when it comes to political etiquettes. For me there is no doubt. Just look at hos many people on the right are labeled as "neo-nazis", where there is zero proof or the definition is stretched beyond any common sense.
That is a call to violence, because you don't play cards with neo-nazis, you eliminate them. And that lead to Charlie Kirk assassination.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 31, 2026 12:03 AM |
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JollyJoker said:
Aren't you really not realizing that you are mixing facts and beliefs? The Earth ISN'T flat, no matter what you believe, while whether this Heroes game is better than that or vice versa is a matter of taste and purpose.
I don't think so. If you look carefully I also added the transgender issue, and in some places, as Canada or many states in the US, New York precisely, intentional and persistent refusal to use someone’s correct pronouns can lead to fines under the city’s Human Rights Law.
The line between facts and beliefs gets thinner every day passing by. Thanks to who ?
____________
You must not OFFEND people - Jolly Joker
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 31, 2026 12:05 AM |
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@ artu
I don't think, you can say that. Case in point: USA. The USA aren't a secular state. Not at all.
But not only that. Human rights are still considered as given by God (as reasoning for why they exist). So the foundation is still religious.
But that actually wasn't the point. What I said was these things are the same on a fundamental level, while you said, yes, BUT, one is more flexible than the other and therefore better.
For one, even if it was true, it doesn't invalidate the point, for two, aren't we living in a time that demonstrates your optimism in that regard is misplaced? Flexibility sounds good in theory, but loses appeal, the older people become (generally spoken). Consequently, societies like ours, with a high percentage of old people have a problem with said flexibility - one reason for what happens currently.
Bottom line is, as I said, depending on the general situation flexibility may lose out against dogma and concentration of power may beat separation of powers.
I mean, look at Poland NOW (virtually today). You'll doubtlessly have your own sources you can consult, but no matter how you interpret the actual events, there's been some hiccup in the system that is solved with Gordian knot tactics outside of the system (if you accept it as a solution). The system itself, while current, doesn't seem to offer anough flexibility to solve the problem.
As a disclaimer, this is all very tentative and improvised because I haven't really thought this through.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 31, 2026 12:17 AM |
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Salamandre said:
JollyJoker said:
Aren't you really not realizing that you are mixing facts and beliefs? The Earth ISN'T flat, no matter what you believe, while whether this Heroes game is better than that or vice versa is a matter of taste and purpose.
I don't think so. If you look carefully I also added the transgender issue, and in some places, as Canada or many states in the US, New York precisely, intentional and persistent refusal to use someone’s correct pronouns can lead to fines under the city’s Human Rights Law.
The line between facts and beliefs gets thinner every day passing by. Thanks to who ?
Well, no it's still apples and oranges. The Earth isn't flat. Scientific fact, provable in so many ways. BUT you aren't fined if you think otherwise.
Being fined if you use the pronoun YOU think right while the person you speak to thinks otherwise, is simply considered offending that person and their sensibilities. It's like "you are not supposed to spit on my lawn; if you still do you transgress." It has nothing whatsoever to do with declaring it fact that there are a gazillion of genders. It's basically a personality rights thing.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted October 31, 2026 12:25 AM |
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Edited by artu at 00:27, 31 Oct 2026.
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USA is traditionally a very secular state, they even replaced “god given rights” with “self evident rights” while writing their constitution. Populist politics using religion these days or some symbolical reference to God here and there, doesnt make it a theocracy. The law isnt determined by clergy or scripture, it is determined by people. They refuse to teach “creation theory” in science class on public schools exactly because of seperation of church and state, that would be another clear cut example. Are there local laws in Bible Belt states that are derived from religion, sure, but you can always go to the Supreme Court and say this is against the seperation of church and state, the principle is there.
I agreed with the statement that all ideologies are belief systems. That doesnt mean all belief systems are potentially compatible with modern governing or dogmatic on an equal basis. That is one biiig jump of a conclusion from the first statement.Why are Islamic countries struggling with this the most for instance, are they all so bad and dumb at interpreting the text conveniently? Of course not, because the content of the material is less compatible.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 31, 2026 01:06 AM |
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@ artu
Sure, first amendment says, separation of state and religion. But creation theory isn't allowed to be taught in science class in public school only (public school as in "the state"). It can still be taught, among others, in philosophy (and everywhere except public schools).
Anyway, I think we are talking past each other. Yes, you have the constitution in the US, but the US society as such isn't secular. When you compare the Scandinavian states with the USA, religion is much more part of everything than there. For example, Bible swearing. You don't HAVE to swear on the Bible (you can do it any way you like), but it's still general practice to assume that oaths are taken on the Bible. Also, lots of state laws are religiously motivated -and have you ever seen the president NOT swearing on the Bible on inauguration day?
About the Islamic states: What do you mean with "islamic states struggling"? With what? Living standards for the masses? Equal rights? Sure. But you currently see that they are pretty resilient. Are they promoting human advance and progress? No, those times seem past. Who does currently, though? Capitalism seems to be on a self-destructing course - so, what do you mean? I mean, aren't "we" as in "the West" decadently degenerating and on course to share the fate of the Roman Empire? And wouldn'tIslamic states be spared from that fate, exactly because of their non-secular nature?
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted October 31, 2026 07:42 AM |
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@Sal
Let’s say you are right to assume the most common on-line encyclopedia that can be edited by practically anyone is a leftist outlet, how does this change the fact that fake news apart from msm had serious effect on the outcome of events? Whether Trump did support it or not, violent insurgence did happen and nobody thought what they read was “just fun.”
@JJ
Nothing you listed disputes that the USA is a secular state. People on average are more religious than Nordic countries especially depending on the region, social class etc., sure, so what? As long as their religiosity doesn’t grant them civil rights more than any other religion, they are living in a secular environment. Is there cultural influence from the mainstream religion, again, sure… But secularism exists BECAUSE such influence exists, it evolved to balance that out anyway.
There are many reasons for the relative decline of Europe but it’s still wealthier than most of the world and actually, that is one of the reasons: Turns out you can not keep having a declining and aging population with social benefits and retirement rights backed up by a welfare state that is unparalleled in the world forever, big surprise there! But the flow of people is still from the Islamic countries to there, not visa versa. And when I say “struggling” I refer to being able to produce innovative solutions to your contemporary problems, advancing in science, education, technology, civil rights, having genuine respect of your peer countries globally. Islamic theocracies are NOT the new alternative to Europe regarding any of these. Look at Saudi Arabia, all this talk of modernization and they recently chopped off a young couples’ heads off because they behaved “inappropriately” in a mosque. That I consider “struggling” without hesitation.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted October 31, 2026 07:49 AM |
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@JJ
The Bible, Jesus and the God don't want to politics and obey their some law.. An example army.. But people are people, no else.. And you saw Islam changes law.. No Islam, no else..
Ok other what? Good you said transgender, when Islamic medicine always used a word is hermaphrodite.. Because of religious law, etc And hermaphrodite means snail, birch, flower, etc just their own species, and we use a intersex.. Ok remember gender invisibility and gender blind.. What? Invisibility, you see beauty woman dressed with code.. So you get a wrong.. Blind, when you see cool guy, but he is a gay, when not used clothing code, etc If I understood right.. Ok I must continue to swb.. Where is invisibility and blind are waiting for me..
You obey to code, lol by society, etc
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