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Snogard
Known Hero
customised
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posted September 12, 2002 03:07 AM |
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Quote:
* the guys that discovered this whole gobal warmth stuff is now disclaiming it all ...
The thing is that over time there has grown an entire industry (thousands of people working in that field) in this stuff ...
Now that same guy that made all te newspapers with his idea's/findings is now being almost "silenced" ...
Paradigm shifted? or just a change in trend? 
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Seize The Day.
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dArGOn
Famous Hero
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posted September 12, 2002 04:07 AM |
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Wow am I in the same thread?? Finally some who share my views
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Hexa
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted September 12, 2002 07:15 AM |
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ohh well perhaps I should have read all posts before opening my big mouth!@
I just scanned them a bit and replied ... 
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If you want to realize your dreams >>> you have to wake up!@
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andiangelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted September 12, 2002 08:17 AM |
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basically i dun care about all that sneaky political stuff and the long posts made here...i just wanna say:
everyone of you who would like to see a attack on iraq is a real dork and has no clue, bush will bring us all the 3rd if he stays long enuf prolly...
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Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
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posted September 12, 2002 08:27 AM |
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"bangs head on the desk"
i must be really sleepy here cause i agree with andi... 
.seriously now... an attack on iraq can't be good... best case scenario, hundreds of people die... worst case scenario, millions of people die... not acceptable in any case ...it's not as if it can change anything anyway "shrugs"
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You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
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dArGOn
Famous Hero
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posted September 12, 2002 09:08 AM |
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Andi...my headbanging buddy...please try to not broad brush those who disagree with you. We are not dorks with no clue...just rational people who have a different opinion then you.
Ironically I would think those of you closer in proximity to Iraq (ie Europe, Africa, Asia) would show more concern as it is a fact that he is trying to pursue nuclear weapons and has biological weapons...the USA is most likely one of the safest places due to distance since he allegedly has no means of delivering nukes to far regions.
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andiangelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted September 12, 2002 09:15 AM |
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Quote:
Andi...my headbanging buddy...please try to not broad brush those who disagree with you. We are not dorks with no clue...just rational people who have a different opinion then you.
Ironically I would think those of you closer in proximity to Iraq (ie Europe, Africa, Asia) would show more concern as it is a fact that he is trying to pursue nuclear weapons and has biological weapons...the USA is most likely one of the safest places due to distance since he allegedly has no means of delivering nukes to far regions.
you say it dargon, the US is pretty save, others are not.. 
no really i mean it, everyone who would like to see an attack, no matter for what reason, is a idiot, i say that with no agression, its my oppinion.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted September 12, 2002 09:45 AM |
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True but we are not invincible.
I agree an attack on Iraq is outrageous & no doubt Saddam will be ready with weapons no doubt probally from Russia hidden away.
Like father like son dang Bushes can kiss my butt lol.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Romana
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Thx :D
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posted September 12, 2002 11:48 AM |
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Quote:
Ironically I would think those of you closer in proximity to Iraq (ie Europe, Africa, Asia) would show more concern as it is a fact that he is trying to pursue nuclear weapons and has biological weapons...the USA is most likely one of the safest places due to distance since he allegedly has no means of delivering nukes to far regions.
Why is this Ironic?
The thing is..Iraq would have no reason to attack us Europeans..Or am i far off here?
To me it seems this is all about USA and iraq, USA and Afghanistan..They do not care if they get any support from the rest of the world as long as THEIR justice will be served.
No offence..it's just the way I see things..maybe I'm wrong..maybe not..oh well
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The darkest skies show the brightest stars
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted September 12, 2002 12:23 PM |
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Point is that a dirty bomb can be delivered to anywhere relatively easily as can chemical/biological weapons so anywhere can be threatened, but most of europe, having had little to do with Iraq (beyond france who sent a division in 1991) have little to fear and therefore see little point in involving themselves and therefore making themseleves a target.
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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hamsi128
Promising
Supreme Hero
tosser tavern owner
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posted September 12, 2002 02:57 PM |
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news from north iraq :
one of my best friend is in north iraq from 1 week.. as you read on journals turkish army entered to north iraq.. my friend returned to his base in turkey and called his family and me. via phone i learned something interesting.. in north iraq they saw that some kurdish rebel army is using american weapons with new technologies but usa army never sold them these weapons ... the case is now interrogaten by usa and turkish inspectors. They are searching mafia relations.
The other intersting part is that what the hell turkish army doing in north iraq? if they still in the mouth of get back the terrains they lost in first world war i ll run away from here lol.. my friend said we have eyes on petrol city kerkuk musul. snow the army, they are fools
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dArGOn
Famous Hero
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posted September 14, 2002 05:40 AM |
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Edited By: dArGOn on 13 Sep 2002
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Qoute
"Why is this Ironic?
The thing is..Iraq would have no reason to attack us Europeans..Or am i far off here?"
it is ironic because if Saddam gets nukes...he most likely won't be able to launch them very far...he attacked Iran he attacked Kuwait...those are all lands close to him...so if I lived in Europe I would be much more concerned.
quote
"To me it seems this is all about USA and iraq, USA and Afghanistan..They do not care if they get any support from the rest of the world as long as THEIR justice will be served."
First I think we would like international support. But Bush's speech to the UN was awesome....he basically pointed out that if they don't follow their OWN resolutions they are basically inept and irrelevant.
Second...though we would like support from others we don't have to have it...we are a sovereign nation...as your country is. Also none of us in America voted for your leaders nor you ours...so why would anyone have to wait for UN support in a cause they believe to be just and for the safety of everyone? We are a democracy as well as other countries are democracies...since I had no say/vote in who your leaders are why should I let them represent me and vice versa?
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Mad_Unicorn
Famous Hero
I am a mean person shame on me
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posted September 15, 2002 11:34 AM |
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what andi says is true.....
if bush does things "right" he can certainly bring on the "holocaust" to "smite" all the "evil" ones.... whats funny is that in many people's eyes he is the "evil" one.
Of course i am a "dork" I just want this mess over with regardless the outcome and how many millions "may" die.
I love putting certain "words" in """"
once again i say religion has no place in politics nor does it seems anyway democracy (ever try to get a good idea through a beauracracy?) 
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I guess with my way thinking I would be going to hell. Good thing I dont believe in it.
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Romana
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Thx :D
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posted September 15, 2002 01:08 PM |
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@ Dargon..
What I was trying to say..or question..
Why does the American government have to be the "hero"?
The truth is IMO..America feels threatened by Iraq and for all I know they have a good reason for that..
But isn't the government itself a little bit guilty too?
I can't believe Iraq would "threaten" America just for the fun of it..
I don't know the whole story ..but then again I don't think any of us do
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The darkest skies show the brightest stars
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted September 15, 2002 05:20 PM |
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Quote:
Second...though we would like support from others we don't have to have it...we are a sovereign nation...as your country is. Also none of us in America voted for your leaders nor you ours...so why would anyone have to wait for UN support in a cause they believe to be just and for the safety of everyone? We are a democracy as well as other countries are democracies...since I had no say/vote in who your leaders are why should I let them represent me and vice versa?
Hmmm..so what you basically is saying is that why have peace keeping organisations to start with when countries like your own are big enough to "stand over it"?
Good thinking, first you americans get upset because the lack of support from rest of world and when it comes down to it you dont give a damn about what they are saying anyway. Yeah im so suprised that you dont get that support now, but hey! run over us a few times and im sure you will...
Although i havent made up my mind about what to think about this "attack iraq" issue itself yet, to me it all comes down too is how bad the situation really is. If america or some other country is one the verge of getting attacked i see no reason why USA (with UN:s backing) shouldnt be able to launch one attack. This shouldnt have to be a case where USA is only allowed to attack if being attacked first because the consequences of a possible first attack from Iraq could be devastating. But as i said, this should only happen if any country is under an imminent threat and thats impossible for me to find out since i have no clue of whats really going on. So i guess im still to make up my mind about this...
Saw pieces of a documentary about the WTC crashes today, it always gets to me when the relatives to some of the victims speaks. hmmm i dunno what to say now really, been thinking the last five minutes about something useful to say but i just cant. All that happens is that i see horrible pictures from that crash in my head, and i cant transform any thoughts down to words. My sympathies are still with every person that lost someone close in that horrible incident.
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dArGOn
Famous Hero
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posted September 17, 2002 04:56 AM |
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Quote:
[Hmmm..so what you basically is saying is that why have peace keeping organisations to start with when countries like your own are big enough to "stand over it"?
Good thinking, first you americans get upset because the lack of support from rest of world and when it comes down to it you dont give a damn about what they are saying anyway. Yeah im so suprised that you dont get that support now, but hey! run over us a few times and im sure you will...
Please read my quote before you start saying the exact opposite of what I stated. No I didn't say that it only applies to the US because we are big enough...in fact I stated "we are a sovereign nation...as your country is."
On your second point I quite clearly remarked "we would love to have international support."
I really don't follow why some of you from democracies seem to imply..."oh to heck with democracy"..."who cares who was elected for their own counry"...."no, now you have to follow the dictates of the world/UN"....sounds like a dictatorship.....the UN is NOT my elected representative. They serve a purpose for discussion, but as far as dictating what other democracies can and cannot do...I think not...who gave them that power?
As far as world support...it grows stronger each day for president Bush's stance towards Saddam. For that I am glad...but in the end we as each sovereign nation would have to chose our own destiny ...the UN does not have that power.
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dArGOn
Famous Hero
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posted September 17, 2002 05:02 AM |
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Edited By: dArGOn on 16 Sep 2002
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Romana
In my opinion if USA does nothing...we let it happen because we are cold and callous...if we do something we are then the world police and/or trying to be the "herl". There is no winning.
That is why I believe we have to do what we think is right...not what others think is right. I think each nation must search their own soul and do what they think is right.
Also Saddam doesn't just hate USA, as history indicates... He seems to hate everyone equally (Kuwait, Iran, Isreal, etc.).
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Mad_Unicorn
Famous Hero
I am a mean person shame on me
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posted September 17, 2002 12:13 PM |
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the UN....
The UN in many ways is what the church was back in the day when god fearing person really meant FEARING god.
The church had no real physical power over anybody as their stance was to let and let live..... however the under all that was the fear that populace had was if they go against the will of the church they would be condemming their very souls to damnation.
The UN is similiar as dargon stated has no power over nations really however if u do something against what the UN debates u loose support. With the loss of support many americans would feel guilty about the actions their "voted leaders" took. The nation would fall under a ..... bah i dunno i dont wanna think about it, its too scary even by my standards.
Now we talkin about souls of a nation.... there is too much conflict to search the "soul" of america.
One of these days i should have a theological debate with dargon but that has no place in politics
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted September 17, 2002 01:41 PM |
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Quote:
Please read my quote before you start saying the exact opposite of what I stated. No I didn't say that it only applies to the US because we are big enough...in fact I stated "we are a sovereign nation...as your country is."
Yes that is a part of your statement, although you seem to have forgotten the rest of it? well dont worry ill get it for you:
"so why would anyone have to wait for UN support in a cause they believe to be just and for the safety of everyone? We are a democracy as well as other countries are democracies...since I had no say/vote in who your leaders are why should I let them represent me and vice versa?"
Its this sentence i particular i got stuck at:
"so why would anyone have to wait for UN support in a cause they believe to be just and for the safety of everyone?"
And thats mainly the part i commented in my previous post, you see i did read all of your post and in difference to you i seem to remember most of it aswell. And since you dont seem to understand my last post ill try to simplify it: Why should we have a UN in first place if they get ignored anyway when things are about to happend? The UN isnt there just to do nothing you know, they do have a purpose and atleast i think that they should try and fill that purpose aswell. Not being ran over by a country who just want it their way and doesnt give a crap about what the rest of the world says. I hope i made it easier this time and if not feel free to ask if there is something in particular.
Quote:
On your second point I quite clearly remarked "we would love to have international support."
Sure you did, but as previous stated you also said that you wouldnt care much if not. here is the exact quote:
"Second...though we would like support from others we don't have to have it"
Thats sentence more or less speaks for itself doesnt it? and in future if you are going to point out what i have "misunderstood" in your posts, please read all of it first and dont cut in middle of sentences and stuff ok? Because if you read all of it my comments will make sense, i promise.
Quote:
I really don't follow why some of you from democracies seem to imply..."oh to heck with democracy"..."who cares who was elected for their own counry"...."no, now you have to follow the dictates of the world/UN"....sounds like a dictatorship.....the UN is NOT my elected representative. They serve a purpose for discussion, but as far as dictating what other democracies can and cannot do...I think not...who gave them that power?
The rest of the world when they appointed an organisation with goal to try and save the peace in this world?
And i find one thing kinda amusing in that argument of yours, so just because you have elected a leader to your nation of your own your nation is entitled to do whatever it like? now that seems no democracy to me thats for sure. In case you didnt know democracy means to have all participants voting about what they think is best, yes that applies to many nations but it applies to many other organisations and such aswell.
How do you think the EU would work if for example the french wanted to decide everything just because they have elected their leader? (like the rest of EU members for that matter) Fact remains: just because you have had one election in your own country for something it doesnt mean that there are no other processes in this world that requires voting.
Quote:
As far as world support...it grows stronger each day for president Bush's stance towards Saddam. For that I am glad...but in the end we as each sovereign nation would have to chose our own destiny ...the UN does not have that power.
You sure about that? personally i would like to see some facts backing it. Because as far as i can tell i know many many people that is starting to get tired of USA playing police and does everything on their own conditions all the time.
But as ive previous stated:
If there is an imminent threat from Iraq or they are about to attack or something i would support an attack from USA and any other country for that matter. With the backing of UN off course.
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arachnid
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted September 18, 2002 12:30 AM |
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Well it seems that Iraq has agreed to unconditional weapons inspections.
I can see no way Bush can attack Iraq now since his main demand is being met. But it seems Bush credibility is on the line he wont back down and will have to think of another way to attack Iraq.
I cant wait to see what reason they come up with next.
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