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| Thread: No random map generator! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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AzureDragonTM
Known Hero
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posted January 21, 2003 05:17 PM |
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Zud, my proposal was to remove melle only from archers
NOT FROM BARBARIANS. And to put back ressistance for every hero.
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Evil Ghost Pirate LeChuck 
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AzureDragonTM
Known Hero
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posted January 21, 2003 05:29 PM |
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And Tc_fear...i think u have a problem with the lenght )
It seems u r affraid of all long things, like our halberd...
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Evil Ghost Pirate LeChuck
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valkyrica
Supreme Hero
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posted January 21, 2003 05:38 PM |
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yes i agree with azuredragon, melee should be removed from archers as archery should be removed from barbs , and both of them should get an increase in their damage (archery for archers and melee for barbs) that would make the game more balanced
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted January 21, 2003 07:06 PM |
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Edited By: Jinxer on 21 Jan 2003
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I see your point Zud, I am just trying to make for an over all great fun gaming experience. Everyone if given a Barb to start will attempt to run the map faster and hit the goodies as fast as possible same goes for Necro/Vampires. I dont think Necro is that strong to be honest ( - Necromancy) The biggest problem with Necro is that people buy Vampires then go take on Bigger fights earlier than they normally should beable to and thusly gain a faster map advantage. That is the same with Barbarians and Melee. I guess I could just make all towns available and all skills ( except Necromancy) available and do the old ways of balancing games. Make in game rules.
But let me ask you Zud, if you get Might town or Necro town, wouldnt you build Vampires and a Barb and take all goodies and such as fast as possible? Knowing you can do it atleast 1 week sooner than your opponent?? Every game I have played you zud so far you make 70% of your army all super heroes, usually 4 heroes. How much do you use of your army during the building process of the game???
Is there any other ideas anyone can think of besides, removing Melee? Becasue you cannot remove melee only from archers and leave it on Barbs that would make Barbs way to dominate...especially with magic resistance.
Maybe stick with previous idea of taking melee out and also removing Might town as an option ??? Thoughts?
Jinxer
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insatiable
Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
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posted January 21, 2003 07:41 PM |
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"i am not a monster..!"
thats so nice..
we'll get to have the 'elephant man' hero speciality
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sos
Known Hero
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posted January 22, 2003 02:55 AM |
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I think most problems with barbs come from the fact that maps are way too rich. This makes possible to advance a hero pretty fast - you can get all the experience from chests since money is not a problem (usually). On a poor map with very few chests you may be better off taking the gold and buying a lord instead of barb. Most TOH maps have heaps of gold, a bunch of chests, a gold mine (or 2 or 3  ), many hero boosting arties - all of this forces you to use barb rush instead of producing gold or creatures.
So make poor maps, plase
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted January 22, 2003 03:31 AM |
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Edited By: Jinxer on 21 Jan 2003
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No I dont think you understand. With a high level Barb there is no need to make creatures or spend money on buildings etc. All you gotta have is little money for trees or gems etc. So doesnt matter how rich the map is. As early as Level 12 and handful of immortality potions they can be taking dragon cities for all the gold in the world etc. Well before your army of 5 level 4's can take a dragon city.
Jinxer =)
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sos
Known Hero
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posted January 22, 2003 05:38 AM |
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Well, I think I understand
My point is to slow down hero boosting by decreasing the amount of chests (and gold in total), crystals and arties in the maps. How do you get a high level barb fast?
1. By visiting learning stones, dream teachers, trees, etc
2. By taking exp from chests
3. By fighting.
So by limiting 1 and 2 you can make the barb (and any other hero for that matter) use more fighting to get exp instead of getting it for free from the map. And before you have a good barb you need troops to fight with. And for troops you need gold . And on a poor map you need to work hard for that gold, build citi, hire lord, etc. You get my point now?
You are saying "You dont need gold or troops once you have a good barb going with some immo potions". I am saying "How the hell do you get a good barb going on a poor map with almost no chests, stones or teachers if you dont build your economy and creatures?". We are talking about different things here.
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insatiable
Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
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posted January 22, 2003 03:53 PM |
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hey zud
give sos a QP here
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valkyrica
Supreme Hero
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posted January 22, 2003 06:20 PM |
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and Zud, while you're at it, give your horse some carrots too
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I'm Guybrush Threepwood, mighty pirate
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted January 23, 2003 04:30 PM |
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Genesis v. 1.2
I will be posting the 1.2 version in a day or 2. I decided to leave Might and Melee in the game. It seems people have a desire to rush the game and end them very early. And I want the map to be played. However I am leaving Magic resistance OUT. There are plenty of magic resistance artifacts and ward artifacts avialble. Theoretically if you have 50% ward and 50 magic resistance you are 100% immune from first attack.
The reason I have taken out magic resistance ( except Barbs ofcourse) is that I want to elimintate or limit the lone hero attacks. If you have GM archery GM Melee and GM magic resistance you are virtually unstoppable and do not need to rish taking your army. You can enter a battle do tons of damage killing 75% of an army then simply leave for free with no casualties. With magic resistance out, atleast it keeps ya honest to the point you will need to take your army to offer a defense line. As I stated before I created Genesis as a map to offer a different playing experience from the other maps. SO if you want that Barb rush every game play some of those other maps. If you want a game that is potentially different every game and makes you think of many multiple strategies then you can play Genesis.
The 1.2 version update has some more land blockages removed a few stronger guards in areas...just some more basic balance issues missed in previous update.
Jinxer
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sos
Known Hero
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posted January 24, 2003 02:53 AM |
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Hm, sounds to me that by removing resistance you have limited all heroes except barbs, exactly the opposite of your intentions to discourage barb rush
And 50 + 50 doesn't always make 100, trust me on that
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SO if you want that Barb rush every game play some of those other maps. If you want a game that is potentially different every game and makes you think of many multiple strategies then you can play Genesis.
Jinxer
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted January 24, 2003 03:08 AM |
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Edited By: Jinxer on 23 Jan 2003
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Well this way ONLY the might town can have that Barb Rush potential. Instead of Everytown doing it every game. So this way I can limit it from 100% every game to only when there is a might town in game.
And besides since Melee is still in game any town that has archer can still rush the map but chances of them leading a successful assault on opponent with 1 lone High level hero is greatly lessened. Which is the gold to make people take and use there army in battles etc.
Jinxer
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AzureDragonTM
Known Hero
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posted January 24, 2003 05:41 AM |
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Yeah u keep magic ressistance out and nobody will play your map...
About so feared hit and run...i played with mike11 for our clan war game...
Can u belive i took his level 19 barbarian with 120 defence with only one strike from 7 black dragons (cancellation first) and he got ring of life too on his beast.
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Evil Ghost Pirate LeChuck
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted January 24, 2003 03:23 PM |
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Well your loss, Azure. If you dont want to play my map...it simply proves you are one of them 1 dimensional players that can only succeed on a style of map with 1 strategy.
Same thing happened in Heroes 3 TOH. Alot of the high ranked players were only high ranked becasue they mastered about 3 maps and only played them. If you put them on an unknown map there talent was not able to adapt.
As I said before I am always open for suggestion... I would love to take Melee out, but then I would have a different group of player complaining. One thing I have learned is you cannot please everyone.
So unless you or anyone else can offer a better solution to the Lone hero end game attack...this is the best solution I can find.
Jinxer
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kolia
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 24, 2003 05:46 PM |
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Jinxer, I think your map is excellent In the quest guards, it is possible to allow heroes with certain number of troops to pass...maybe it is a possibility to resolve your lone hero problem? I'm not a "mapmaker", but if you place at certain strategic point a questgate of this kind, it can force players to take troops with them, or at least to spend a bit more ressources on raising Lvl 4 creatures...
Anyway i had a great pleasure playing this map, and i will play it again
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Motorschaaf
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted January 24, 2003 06:32 PM |
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Quote:
Same thing happened in Heroes 3 TOH. Alot of the high ranked players were only high ranked becasue they mastered about 3 maps and only played them. If you put them on an unknown map there talent was not able to adapt.
well thats imporssible to prevent and such wannabe-highrankers will allways be around. no matterhow awesome maps u design. H3, H4 or competetive ladder ranking systems for other games have such one-map-wonders.
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So unless you or anyone else can offer a better solution to the Lone hero end game attack...this is the best solution I can find.
or play h3 then you dont have to worry about lvl 20 barbs without creatures 
h3schaaf
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted January 24, 2003 06:50 PM |
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I talked quite abit with Japjer and he recommended changing all chests on map to piles of gold and giving both sides scroll of cancellation. And in return then we could re-enable the magic resistance. How does that sound ?
I especially would like to hear AzureDragons ideas on this ;P
Also attention to all master map makers, I am curious to find out if there is a way to remove immortality potions as option from the towns and or change there cost?
Jinxer
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destro23
Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
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posted January 24, 2003 07:37 PM |
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I had a small suggestion for your idea mentioned above ragarding chests..
It might be handy to have a few chests lying around, guarded, so that if a player does need/want that exp he can claim it..
I think its the free chests lying around that make it a problem..
ANother point of this is that a gold pile is significantly less money than a treasure chest, well not in all circumstance, but I am sure you understand what I mean. Gold piles will cause, imo a more easily plannable build scheme. Which is fine..
And to be honest, maybe I am wrong about this but gold piles range from 500-1000 gold? unless set? chests from 1000-2000 gold.. this will I think change the economics of a map.. however if players are using all chests as experience anyway I suppose you can disregard these comments
More or less thinking while typing sorry in adavnce lol
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The Dead Walk!!!
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted January 24, 2003 08:11 PM |
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Yes ofcourse I am only changing the free open chests. ANd will probably leave the free chests that are out in the middle areas and the corners etc. Little riskier to go out and get them hehe.
As for gold piles offering less gold, I think that might be a good thing. Make ya fight for your gold to get important buildings built etc. But the MAIN reason from chainging the chests to gold piles is to limit the exp that people use to raise a Barb/Archer so early in game.
Also I am gonna remove the Ring of Permancy. Thanks for your ideas Destro =)
Jinxer
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