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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Mind Games
Thread: Mind Games This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
rychenroller
rychenroller


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 23, 2003 04:06 AM bonus applied.
Edited By: Hexa on 23 May 2003

Mind Games

While I appreciate the work that Wub and Odvin do in their posts, and I think they are great, there is a level to online gaming that just cant be underestimated. There are certain things that just cant be calculated or taken for granted when playing against a good online opponent, and they cant be fully appreciated until you succumb to them...

Mind Game one... The whiner
I'm not talking about your average whiner that talks about this and that, how you have something that they dont blah blah, I'm talking about the professional whiner. Joetheloser was an absolute pro at this, he would say out of nowhere..."damn", and you would say "?". He would then say, "I lost too much there, to that throng of evil eyes."
A few turns later, you would get..."snow, I'm dead" and then a few moments later "phew, just got through." Meanwhile, he is losing absolutely nothing, maybe a bit of fodder and what it makes you do is relax your guard. Maybe you think, just a matter of time before he kills himself, or you finish him and meanwhile, he rocks up on you doorstep killing you, while you've taken the time to clear your area. He did me with this more than once

Mind game two... The hero hider/stat hider
It's all well and good to know what your game plan is, but sometimes you need to have a cluewhat your opponent is doing too. One thing that happened to me once is an opponent had Tazar early so I went out of my way to get as much magic as I could (think my hero was Dessa) Chased power ups, took magic skills because I wasnt going to beat Tazar with might, then in about week 4 I see Thorgrimm with great stats. After I had concentrated on the more magic side of my hero, needless to say when Thorgrimm showed up with about equal army, the fight didnt go too well. Swapping arts to a scout also works, confusing your opponent, unless the main is totally obvious.

Mind game three... The rusher
This isnt so much a mind game as a tactic, but the real good online players have an instinct to what they can attack and survive. Archie is a good exponent of this, hitting things a ful week earlier than you would, losing very little and beating you hands down for speed. Occaisionally the rusher will say little things like..."Hmmm 30 greens with 6 golds" and its only start of week 4. Automatically this makes you panic and take some risks you wouldnt normally. Sometimes this works and you'll work some miracles, but if you are not quite as good as your opponent, one of those risk fights may be a suicide.

There are so many sides to this part of heroes, and they just cant be calculated. Often this is where the new online player is just out thought by the veteran. One of my personal faves is telling my opponent if I have a real good dwelling, ie. a drag dwelling when you are dungeon. Makes them take risks and work too hard maybe

Edit by Hexa: QP given. Nice thread man!@
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Myctteakyshd

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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted May 23, 2003 04:35 AM

Those are great respected pointers one thang I love to do which I caught quite a bit on even some of the best are ambushes & traps.
Like you #2 example rych about hiding your hero or just showing a hero you want your aponent to see.
Heres an example I did with a player.
I am Fortress I think she was Castle.
& I can see her down way south taking a tope doing her chaning thang which is cool.
So I send my (supposedly to be) main hero with lv 1-4 & some extra Lizards to boot & head towards that way where she can barely see me.
She fell for it,I think the hero was Bron.
Bron also had most of my arties which was not much & led her to the upper area & took a left which was oposite of my castles right.
That gave my hero aenough time to go south from my castle & envade her castle with one swift move with only logistic arties & log skills.

So many ways to set up traps.
Like what Mocara did to me when I could of beaten him I feel for the oldest trick in the book LOL.
I come up close to his native territory & see a fork, one left & right. It is day 6 & need to hit him tomorrow or he will have more troops then me tomorrow.
So his turn day 6 & he moves his scout to the upper left & did some other stuff & then ended turn.
What I feel for was chasing his hero to the left only to find out he led me to a whole new dif area & hos main castles to the right.
I didnt have Earth or Air skills.

So many examples of traps but being calculated works wonders especially like the final battle or really tough fights knowing how many HP an ICE BOLT can kill a bunch of Behemoths.
Or where to end your troops at so your enemy can barely not reach you etc.
But you also need to have the exp so you wont fall for some of the experienced players tricks.
One of the best Calculated player I know is Antal 7 man he was tough & extremely smart on this game.
Get some practice in & learn some strats or from others.
Like how I learned to set up Ambushes & traps you guys can learn to do more.

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Dreaming of a Better World

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Sir_Stiven
Sir_Stiven


Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
posted May 23, 2003 05:44 AM

hehe great post rychenlongpostwriterroller.

Although i think you forgot one "mind game" and that would be "the bragger".

The bragger is the player who always points out the good stuff he gets/can get and aint afraid to show it with stats or giving army to a scout like alamar so you figure out he has res. soon.

All of this with the solely purpose of trying to get you to rush him early and also take alot of chances which usually means you kill yerself every now and then.

Coming to think about it i can name another "mind game" and that would be "the showoff"

I used this in a game in an allied game i had. I was playing inferno and used octavia as a main (it was a game where you get one might hero out of 6). And by week 2 i had cleared most of me area except the blocks and got me some decent arts and stat boosting locations. I also saw some scouts from one opponent who had the area next to me and block were only lots of ogre mages. Anyways, i wanted my devils week 2 but i was kinda low on cash... so i saw this naga bank as a blessing. Problem was that
A) There were 30 of em
B) They attacked me "wrong" stacks
C) 3 stacks got moral on me first turn.

Needless to say i had to retreat soon enough.

But instead of start whining that i had killed myself i boosted octavias stats as much as i could. And by start of week 3 i had about same stats that the other 3 players mains had together. Which basically meant that the opponent next to me didnt dare to attack, i also used the little troops i got to take meaningless fights to keep turns longer than press "end turn" right away. So what happend was that my allie (Ameoba, who played really well btw) killed the other opponent end of week 3 and they surrenderd.


Talking about the other tactics though and mainly the rush one... When you play someone like archie, you know that you will have to be fast to stand a chance. And therefor take somewhat stupid fights every now and then.

I remember one game in particular, i had a great start with a 3 stack shak and +1 speed art as starting artifact. And i was doing really good and killed my kinda weak guard to next area kinda easy. And there i saw the cape of velocity. And i was like thinking "hey kewl, now i can have speed 11 trogs!" So i attacked lots of pit fiends for it... which off course turned out to be 48 and then it was game over

To bad though, because i really had my chance in that game. And if i had played another opp i seriously doubt that i would have taken that fight day3... even with the possibility of speed 11 trogs first week

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rychenroller
rychenroller


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 23, 2003 06:29 AM

Yep the bragger is definitely one, sort of like I added at the end of my post, talk up your area, your arties, dwellings etc...I've had people try to concede when I told em certain things (although I wouldnt call that overly honorable)

Another one I'd like to mention is "The Tosser", which is a derivative of the bragger, but the tosser is not necessarily a good player. Destro is a great tosser, although he was a great player too, he loved to toss
An example of a Destro toss..."Damn, 35 crusaders on grass" ( this is day 7 btw ) and then 5 min later "Cool, level 10 Jeddite with exp scholar from prison" I tell ya, no-one could toss like Destro
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Myctteakyshd

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midnight
midnight


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 23, 2003 07:22 AM

there are tactics against it too.

Beating the Whinger
When they start whining, i gradually reveal that i'm going really really really well, and must have all the good luck over this side. Suddenly what was fake whining, becomes real whining and sometimes they concede Either way, instead of me being annoyed, they get annoyed

Beating the Tosser
Actually, best to go along with it and see how funny they get

Beating the Bragger
Act like u dont care.
Oh, u got 18 archies. Really, u got 18 archies? 18 freakin archies! um... yeah, so?








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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted May 23, 2003 08:52 AM

you know it's fun though figuring out if they are actually telling the truth or not.
Yea though sometimes if you can out toss a tosser it can make them just as worried like.

Player A) I just found the earth tome near my area

Player B) Really well I just got the HH a few days ago & a tope is close to that area as well

Sometimes knowing a player you can tell if they are lying or just tossing.
Like when Midnight brags about what he got, usually i never doubt he got them LOL.

One of my fav type of games is the taunts, when you taunt players that they will lose & just make them want to rush you hehe.
Used to enjoy those ally games with Tel dracos & some other faved but retired players hehe.
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Dreaming of a Better World

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rychenroller
rychenroller


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 23, 2003 09:16 AM

Midnight has never been a bragger about what he has, he is pretty quiet during the game, and usually only responds to my whining . I actually kept quiet about a drag dwelling I flagged week 2 a few games ago against him which doesnt normally happen.

But I've never really been subjected to "The taunter". Sometimes I try it on Andi though, something like "Andirammsteinfanclubowner" or "andigayelfeverquester"
or something like this
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Myctteakyshd

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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted May 23, 2003 09:24 AM

Hehe I think l think if you want a great fun taunting game, play with Tel & Dracos but dont let them be teams hehelike if Chubby me Tel & Dracos be playing, man be one of your funnest games you would ever play lol.
Man just read page 30 on Tavern wow brings back memories when I made one of my first posts on body drops lol.
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LichKing
LichKing


Honorable
Known Hero
posted May 23, 2003 05:13 PM
Edited By: LichKing on 23 May 2003

ROFL!!!!!

Quote:

Joetheloser was an absolute pro at this, he would say out of nowhere..."damn", and you would say "?". He would then say, "I lost too much there, to that throng of evil eyes."
A few turns later, you would get..."snow, I'm dead" and then a few moments later "phew, just got through." Meanwhile, he is losing absolutely nothing, maybe a bit of fodder and what it makes you do is relax your guard. Maybe you think, just a matter of time before he kills himself, or you finish him and meanwhile, he rocks up on you doorstep killing you, while you've taken the time to clear your area. He did me with this more than once



hehehe Me too!  Joe pounded me on randoms like Zud used to get me on fixed maps.  Thing is, win or lose Joe was always huge fun to play the game with.  Wish he was still around.

Thanks for the little reminder, Mr. President.............reading your example was a flashback, lol!
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SOUND THE CHARGE!!  INTO GLORY RIDE!!!

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Xarfax111
Xarfax111


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
posted May 23, 2003 06:22 PM

...just lovely ...nice post rychenroller ...maybe i can add a few more to make your list complete:

the russian questioner (part I):

..once when comps are slow and peeps played "with sound" and 2 mins were hard to handle, a player type that i would call the "russian questioner" was very up to date. This kind of player was very "interested" in your life, job, girlfriend, the weather, a sack of rice in china and so on and on...but ONLY on day 1 !!! ...and ONLY during YOUR turn...lol ..u could be sure that your comp was peeping all the time and instead of seeing creatures on the map, the whole screen was filled with green letters and question marks...lol...even if u avoided to answer and tried to concentrate. After this he was quiet for about 3 weeks, even if u answered ..nothin..no reply ..Then when u break thru a big block and do some time lasting chaining ...suddunly the questioner had tons of questions again .."Do you attack the Pack of Blackies"..."How many are they?"..."Can u do it?" "What is a Blackie anyway" and so on and so on .

The questioner (partII):

..well nowadays this just dont work...comps are faster and maybe they think i would get suspicious about getting asked if im german for the 17th time . So nowadays another kind of questioner is up to date: If he expects u to be "honorable" he starts having some nice and polite conversation. Then he starts to talk what is around on his side of map and askin YOU how r u doin on your side? ...so two possible scenarios do occur a)u were into conversation and tell him the "honorable truth" and gave him to much info about your side, or b) u didnt told him about your scorp dwelling and he gets mad with u accusing u that u are not playing honorable and leaving game (if he gonna lose it, of course)..lol

the threatening dropper:

..this kind is very nice at the beginning, but right after day 5 he gets very unpolite. Most of the time he tells u how bad u play and that u suck at this game, not even knowing how good or bad u really play. If u gonna get sick of this talk and leave, be sure that hell report and want to earn the win (HC mail on next day). If u stay in game and even play well, which is hard as no fun game, hell immeadiate drop as soon as he sees how good your stats are. Not to mention that he only lost connection.

...just to add some

Xarfax1

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Lord_Woock
Lord_Woock


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
posted May 23, 2003 07:32 PM

Some headology: when we encounter wandering creatures and the opp sees it, we can fool around .

option 1: say that it was the maximum number of creatures for that category, while it was minimum
option 2: vice versa

Very useful with joiners - scare the snow out of your opponent!
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!

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Sir_Stiven
Sir_Stiven


Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
posted May 24, 2003 12:42 AM
Edited By: Sir_Stiven on 23 May 2003

hehe kinda funny when you start thinking about it, because ive used some of those tactics too more or less not thinking about it.

Bah gotta give it to you tho rychengoodpostwriterroller, this is the first thread in a looong time which actually had made me wanna install my heroes game again.

Because the playing aside, i concider the talking a big part of the game. IMO no matter how good an allie to me plays, if his silent all the time his no fun anyways. I like setting up strategical battleplans with my allie, thats why i like playing allied with archie so much... except for that fact that his such a cheap tosser

EDIT: oh and btw, in 2-3 weeks ill be actually able to play this game again... nice

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rychenroller
rychenroller


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 24, 2003 12:53 AM

Quote:
Some headology: when we encounter wandering creatures and the opp sees it, we can fool around .

option 1: say that it was the maximum number of creatures for that category, while it was minimum
option 2: vice versa

Very useful with joiners - scare the snow out of your opponent!


Or a derivative of the above...its late week 2 and your struggling a little, your opponent says..."damn, full crypt" and the a few moments later says, "well that wasnt so bad." You are thinking to yourself....full crypt in week 3? jeez!
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Myctteakyshd

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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted May 24, 2003 07:56 AM

So Stiven you really do have your game uninstalled, I knew you were yellow LOL.
I am still waiting for the challenge you 3 offered me almost a yr half ago LOL?
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Dreaming of a Better World

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zilonite
zilonite


Famous Hero
posted May 24, 2003 05:13 PM

Dudes, u should switch to poker, i would say
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Elephants commonly have a bad eyesight. Yet with their bulk this is not a major problem for them.

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Sir_Stiven
Sir_Stiven


Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
posted May 24, 2003 06:38 PM

Quote:
So Stiven you really do have your game uninstalled, I knew you were yellow LOL.
I am still waiting for the challenge you 3 offered me almost a yr half ago LOL?

As stated i cant play online here and killing comp over and over gets kinda boring.

in 2-3 weeks ill be visiting family again and then i will play some, look me up then

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Lord_Woock
Lord_Woock


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
posted May 24, 2003 06:44 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Some headology: when we encounter wandering creatures and the opp sees it, we can fool around .

option 1: say that it was the maximum number of creatures for that category, while it was minimum
option 2: vice versa

Very useful with joiners - scare the snow out of your opponent!


Or a derivative of the above...its late week 2 and your struggling a little, your opponent says..."damn, full crypt" and the a few moments later says, "well that wasnt so bad." You are thinking to yourself....full crypt in week 3? jeez!


Wow! A non-offtopic post of mine, in a somewhat "strategy" thread, and nobody called me a n00b? Boy, am I lucky!
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Yolk and God bless.
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Kuma
Kuma


Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
posted May 27, 2003 08:55 AM

I like truth-tellers best I'd say.

Altho; I once had a game wif Destro, in which I had a treetop close to his border and saw a great deal of his moves; u wouldn't believe the BS he told about him game LOL. One of the funniest games ever hehe.
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People used to call me crazy, but now that I'm rich I am excentric.

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Dmnd
Dmnd


Famous Hero
Confused Girlie
posted May 27, 2003 11:15 AM

Quote:
in 2-3 weeks ill be visiting family again and then i will play some, look me up then


Youre going down
*flexes*
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Medusa >~> Looks that kill <~<

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Lews_Therin
Lews_Therin


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 28, 2003 05:06 AM
Edited By: Lews_Therin on 27 May 2003

Strange that noone mentioned the restart-tactician yet.

He would be a good player even without it, but it´s his most deadly weapon that makes him almost unbeatable: The Tab-key.

This player type usually stands near the very top of the rating list.

He enjoys winning games long before the players´ heroes can meet, on ridiculously unbalanced maps. But whenever it smells like the coin has flipped in the opponent´s favour, be it supposedly better town, or hero, or starting area, he presses Tab, and enters the magical words "I´m blocked."

If necessary, he will describe the misery that he is suffering in so much of a touching way, that only a stone-hearted person would stand a chance to resist.

(Viewing the save afterwards does not help you a bit - now that the save has been looked at, playing on is not even legal anymore - but it usually reveals that the reason for being blocked is only a relative one:
The player was so blocked that he could not make his usual build order up to Angels week 1, but instead had to build, upgrade and buy Archers.
Or maybe the road really was blocked by something nasty, but oh surprise - there is a way around it. But can an Emperor´s troops be asked to march through the dirt, when there´s a road instead?)

The opponent is a nice person and grants him the requested restarts, only to play and lose the hopeless starting position, that will almost surely appear after enough repititions.
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