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| Thread: chaining, was it so good? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Blue_Camel
Famous Hero
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posted May 29, 2003 06:41 PM |
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Judging by how popular both maps are, I would have to say that your opinion is not the majority. The only sentiment I hear about those two maps lately is that ppl are sick of them from having played them several times already, not that they are bad maps.
ahh but that is where you are wrong mike. Since when does popular = good? If that is true, then Dog Days is the best map on TOH. And "The Bachelor" is the best show on TV, etc.
Circle and HoW get played a lot because they are decent maps that are pretty quick. I know Dog Days gets some of its popularity because it was there all along, but even so, it wouldve been very popular had it come along later. People still play it a lot today. Talk to the people who are not concerned with points, but only concerned with how much fun they have, and then you will find the true best maps. If you talk to points-freaks, they will just tell you that quick maps are the best. Of course if you confront them with "well you're just saying that cuz you like to get points quickly" they will swear up and down that the map is "fun" also. There are many players in ToH like this.. some you can even hear sometimes criticizing other players for being points-freaks when they are themselves. They exist all over, higher ranks not excluded 
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted May 29, 2003 07:36 PM |
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Well put Camel!!!
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mike11
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 29, 2003 08:36 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Judging by how popular both maps are, I would have to say that your opinion is not the majority. The only sentiment I hear about those two maps lately is that ppl are sick of them from having played them several times already, not that they are bad maps.
ahh but that is where you are wrong mike. Since when does popular = good? If that is true, then Dog Days is the best map on TOH. And "The Bachelor" is the best show on TV, etc.
Circle and HoW get played a lot because they are decent maps that are pretty quick. I know Dog Days gets some of its popularity because it was there all along, but even so, it wouldve been very popular had it come along later. People still play it a lot today. Talk to the people who are not concerned with points, but only concerned with how much fun they have, and then you will find the true best maps. If you talk to points-freaks, they will just tell you that quick maps are the best. Of course if you confront them with "well you're just saying that cuz you like to get points quickly" they will swear up and down that the map is "fun" also. There are many players in ToH like this.. some you can even hear sometimes criticizing other players for being points-freaks when they are themselves. They exist all over, higher ranks not excluded
First, I was not saying jinxer was "wrong", I was saying that not everybody agrees with him. Second, I don't think either Circle or HOW is a quick map, Death Valley is a quick map. I would consider myself as not overly concerned with points, but that doesn't affect my opinion of maps. Both you and Jinxer are map makers, which means you guys have strong opinions on what maps should be like. That doesn't mean you are always the authority on what other ppl like or should like. You both make good maps, but I don't see a need to bash other ppls maps, just because you guys don't like them.
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Wez - WoW Darkspear 60 UD Priest - Herb/Alch
Timezone = PST ( EST -3, GMT -8 )
Wez - WoW Archimonde 60 Human Priest
Wez - SWG Bria TKM/Doc/Fencer
Mike11 - HOMMIV TOH Legionaire
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Blue_Camel
Famous Hero
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posted May 29, 2003 09:54 PM |
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You both make good maps, but I don't see a need to bash other ppls maps, just because you guys don't like them.
well i do, biatch 
jk
Who said we are the authorities? No one. But i think its pretty obvious why the popular maps are popular.. and it isnt quality of the map
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mike11
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 29, 2003 11:01 PM |
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Camel
"Who said we are the authorities? No one. But i think its pretty obvious why the popular maps are popular.. and it isnt quality of the map
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Well I guess I'm pretty stupid because I don't see the obviousness of why they are popular, other than ppl like to play them. Why are the two most active mapmakers so eager to criticize the hard work that other mapmakers put in. If your maps are so superior than that will become obvious over time, but don't try to force it in a public forum.
When you come on a public forum and you make statements that you have to apolagize for, i.e. "...no offense Youri"... than you make it seem like you are the authority. What determines quality? Why bash maps just because you personally don't like them?
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Wez - WoW Darkspear 60 UD Priest - Herb/Alch
Timezone = PST ( EST -3, GMT -8 )
Wez - WoW Archimonde 60 Human Priest
Wez - SWG Bria TKM/Doc/Fencer
Mike11 - HOMMIV TOH Legionaire
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Blue_Camel
Famous Hero
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posted May 29, 2003 11:08 PM |
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Why bash maps just because you personally don't like them?
just stating opinion
and anyway, if anyone wants to "bash" my maps, i have no problem with that, so long as they dont say something about the map that isnt true or something. Why have TOH section on HC if we can't say what maps we like?
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vesuvius
Hero of Order
Honor Above all Else
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posted May 30, 2003 07:17 AM |
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hey my Fallen Bridge map was the best map of them all. You should all have 25% of your games played on it, forget blue camel and jinxers' maps.
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GrunanCross
Famous Hero
King of the Underdark
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posted May 30, 2003 07:42 AM |
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Lol Homm4, is a very good game. Well at least for listening to the music while you are sleeping! The game really is a little under-developed I think...Or mahaps it is the other way around...Its just doesn't have the same feel as the other games..I hope 5 is better.
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midnight
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 31, 2003 12:27 PM |
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mowing the lawn and other map clearing techniques
quite a diversity of threads here, but it seems like the players who think and plan with whatever resources and logistical tools they have available do the best.
The other thing as a map maker is to include a large range of stack sizes. This prevents the type of clearing of map which is like mowing the lawn from one side to the other (irrespective of chaining or H3/H4).
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haile73
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 31, 2003 12:55 PM |
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pretty right, midnight. I thought this was so obvious that I didn't even mention it.
Btw, I won a H3 mapmasters subtourney a few months ago (map: Battle of Bastards 2). My longest "sweeping chain" included 3 heroes and I did this the first turns only. Whoever tries to do extreme chaining on maps like Showdown 3 or Giant War, ends up without army middle week 1 and therefore has to neglect main hero development.
So whatever you H4-only-ppl think about chaining, you're just not up-to-date. 
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted May 31, 2003 03:45 PM |
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ONe of my last games I ever played in H3 was agasint the Great Motor. We played the map Giant WAR. Motor had the middle cleared completely and wa breaking thru my hydras week 3 day 4.
So he not only broke thru his side he cleared 2 Utopias and big guards on middle library and then my guards week 3 day 4. Now there is no way to do that if you arent massive chaining.
No offense haile but if you wont a map masters tourny with out chaining, there some of the highest ranked players were not in the tourny.
Ofcourse I am not trying to bash you haile me and you been good buds, just pointing out a few things.
Jinxer
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Motorschaaf
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted May 31, 2003 04:25 PM |
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Now there is no way to do that if you arent massive chaining.
well i only can say i agree with haile. if i would have done "massive chaining" i would have been at least a week faster
the only "huge" chains i usually do is chaining the new troops to main. (for day 1 rushes for example )
the more you plan your moves - the less you have to chain
Chainingschaaf
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted May 31, 2003 05:13 PM |
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Motor, quit your cocky BS'ing . It is impossible to rush a map like Giant war if you dont do more than troop chaining, Unless you cheat. So just give it up. You are a massive chainer. Nothing wrong with it. You awesome. You the Best! You are now the King of a Dead game =P wooohooooo Rock on Baby!
Someone came into Gs last night and told me Zone had 5 people. Ouch.
Jinxer
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haile73
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 31, 2003 05:45 PM |
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No offense taken Jinxer, we're just discussing, I don't take it personal
As for the discussion, I was talking about "sweeping chaining" that is not necessary on the maps I mentionned. Of course I used those massive chains to get new troops where I wanted; including having main hero travel only with 1 gremlin over snow terrain
And as for the "real top players did not participate": I usually get anything done on BoB2 (open tents, take underground relic if useful, check middle relics & get one if useful, take tope) before w3d3, without having more than 3 heroes fighting in same turn. I doubt the "real top players" do it much faster
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted May 31, 2003 06:02 PM |
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Now I can see why Jinxer left to heroes 4
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Motorschaaf
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted May 31, 2003 06:47 PM |
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Motor, quit your cocky BS'ing . It is impossible to rush a map like Giant war if you dont do more than troop chaining, Unless you cheat.
so you calling me a cheater ? thx
i could break mid week 3 on GW without mass chaining anygame anytime lol and i dun have a problem proovin this to ya - just tell m your ip and lets rock . if you dont believe this it simply prooves your lack of skill in homm 3 . its no personal attack or insult - its simply a mattr of fact. in 90% of my gams i do 95% of my fights with 1 main hero.
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So just give it up. You are a massive chainer. Nothing wrong with it.
i am ABLE to mass chain. but im far away from using it every game. im simply too lazy to do so - and i bet many other player think same - not tpo mntion your turn lngth increases A LOT.
i only try to mass chain usually vs. guys like antal, andi and so and in games where you have to go to the limit. and even in this gams only limit it to VERY few turns
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You awesome. You the Best!
Exactly- finally you admit it
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You are now the King of a Dead game =P wooohooooo Rock on Baby!
sorry you are wrong here - i suck in h4
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Someone came into Gs last night and told me Zone had 5 people. Ouch.
whoever that was - tell him next time to visit "training grounds" and not " dragon utopia"
motorschaaf
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted May 31, 2003 07:31 PM |
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Motor, if it makes you feel like big tuff guy to always claim I had no talent or skill in H3, then so be it.
In the 4 years I was in H3 TOH I held every rank. Including the highest rank of FieldMarshall, which was only held ever by 3 people. ( You were not one of them )
If I put the time and effort into learning maps and was not lazy enough to chain I raised in ranks with out any trouble. No I was never # 1 ranked, but then again, never cared if I was or not. After my 3rd season in TOH, I got bored with the memorization of maps and studing them to increase my win %. Same thing with chaining. I found much more fun and enjoyment in playing random or blind maps. So just because I openly voice my opinion that chaining tactic sucked, and learning memorizing maps. Doesnt mean I wasnt also capable of chaining, or learning maps. Just didnt see any fun in doing so.
So if you think you are a H3 God because you went from peon status to Ranked #1 from memorizing patterns and tactics on certain maps, then you can have that status, what ever makes you able to sleep at night.
Ultimately dont matter, I have moved on from H3. I played it. I loved it! Got Bored with it, moved on. Simple.
The big difference is, even if I wasnt a Master at chaining, and learning maps to a degree that I maximized my win %, I at least still played and had fun and gave the game a shot. You on other hand, are the one who us unable to adapt to new styles and game design.
It is easy for you to blame that the game sucks, but the truth is I think you dont want to have to start all over learning a whole new game.
I am only slightly higher than average in H4 also, but atleast I am making effort to addapt and learn the game, not hiding behind excuses.
Jinxer
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Motorschaaf
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
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posted May 31, 2003 11:47 PM |
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Motor, if it makes you feel like big tuff guy to always claim I had no talent or skill in H3, then so be it.
you dont get the point do ya ? you say its impossible to break mid week 3 without massive chaining - i say it is and done it almost any game on Gw and i can do it anytime again. its not really hard. why dont you just accept reality ? you dont ned no cheats hacks or 8heroes fighting every day of a week to wipe out opponent early/mid week 3 . thats just fact nothing else
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In the 4 years I was in H3 TOH I held every rank. Including the highest rank of FieldMarshall, which was only held ever by 3 people. ( You were not one of them )
well to me skill and rank of a player are 2 pair of shoes
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So if you think you are a H3 God because you went from peon status to Ranked #1 from memorizing patterns and tactics on certain maps, then you can have that status, what ever makes you able to sleep at night.
YFYI i play(ed) many maps and wasn't less successful on randoms than on fixed maps. i aint a h3 god - but you dont ned to be a h3 god to kill your opponnet week 3 on GW
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You on other hand, are the one who us unable to adapt to new styles and game design.
no - im unable to wait 5 minutes for data transfer
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It is easy for you to blame that the game sucks, but the truth is I think you dont want to have to start all over learning a whole new game.
I am only slightly higher than average in H4 also, but atleast I am making effort to addapt and learn the game, not hiding behind excuses.
i dun have a problem with learning new games - im currently doing so . but why the heck should i try to learn a game which is no fun to me at all ? makes no sense
or you wanna say i lie and all peeps who like h3 and dont like h4 are just afraid of h4 ? soundsvery strange to me - one thing i know for sure : im surely not the only h3 playr who thinks that h4 is not as good as h3 - even the programmr realized this ...well they are prolly afraid to learn the new game
Motorschaaf
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mklthrkngl
Known Hero
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posted May 31, 2003 11:53 PM |
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really now!
From all I've heard here, even the flaming, it seems my point has been made than. Atleast nobody appears to want to be labeled a "Super Chainer" all of a sudden. So I think we can safely say that chaining was not the only gauge by which a good player could be judged. The only thing I would like to add is that when Motor said he'd superchain against certain players because he had to push the limit, eg. Andi or Antal, I still hold that on many maps where others could superchain still others didn't have to and still won games without the tactic. My opionion is that while it is a strategy that has success it is not the only one you have to use to play at the highest lvls. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!!
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OK!! So i cann't spell well! So shoot me!!
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted June 01, 2003 03:16 AM |
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Of course it's easy for Jinxer to be top ranked in every sub tourney I mean shoot, he only got to be volunteer in any one so he got to set himself up with easy or fun players  .
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Dreaming of a Better World
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