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| Thread: Should Titans be the most powerfull creature? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Hrushov17
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 18, 2006 06:02 PM |
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titans can shoot already so they must not be the strongest...it would be too cheap.. 
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Miru
Supreme Hero
A leaf in the river of time
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posted March 18, 2006 07:17 PM |
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Yes!!!!! I am so glad that somebody finaly brought up that idea!
This was brought up 5 years ago.
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The Titans are semi gods, they are among the coolest creatures of the game, they are wise, immune to the effects of time and are very usefull in combat (tacticaly, strategicaly and just being strong). They MUST be the strongest units of the game.
The titans are a few powerful biengs, not quite semi gods, but if you read the HoMM 5 stuff (especially the history) you'd know the the dragons are worshipped as gods by everyone except academy (they study them) and dungeon (they revere them, but not quite worship). I still like the titans more, but dragons are supposed to be better.
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For many years, since HOMM II (in which the Titans were the best we have seen for now), the Titans have been opressed by the creators in favor of the dragons. Lets put an end to that trend comrades! at HOMM II the dragons were a bit stronger, at HOMM III, again the Black dragons were a bit stronger. In HOMM IV the Titans have been reduced to a medium 4th level creature (shame on you 3DO).
Is this going to repeat itself again, at HOMM V?
I hope not!
For all of you dragon lovers, don't you think that it is unfair for you to get all the glory all the time? give us some room, you are not the center of the universe.
Dragons have been enjoying the "best unit" status since day one (HOMM I "dragon" unit), thats enough!
May the age of dragons end and the age of Titans begin!
Not forgeting the Angels of course! you rock as well, especialy the HOMM III Archangel, which is, in my opinion, one of the coolest units of all time.
Its tradition. And if blessed titans are the best unit.
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I wish I were employed by a stupendous paragraph, with capitalized English words and expressions.
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Evil_Warrior
Famous Hero
Duke of Demon
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posted March 23, 2006 03:03 PM |
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Titans are or can be more powerful than the Archangel in H3.
Arch Angel have an damage of 50, whereas Titans have damage of 40-60.
They can be more powerful.
The damage of the Titan is 40-60. So we just take the most possible value. that is 50. same as Archangel's.
Attack and defense of Archangel is 6 POINTS more than Titan's. the difference of health that only 50 points can't make Titan win. That is in general situaton where the Titan is not blessed and the Good Morale of Archangel doesn't work.
But in fact, if the archangel is splitted in 2 or more stacks, they can rescurrect each other and it is one of best strategy ever. It makes the Archangels win although the Titans ALWAYS do the damage of 60.
Titan can be more powerful than Archangel. But only in few percent of possibility.
Evil_Warrior
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meph
Adventuring Hero
Rampaging Rampart
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posted March 23, 2006 03:34 PM |
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From what I've seen so far, the ranking seems kinda like:
1 - Black Dragon
2 - Titan/Arch Angel
4 - Gold Dragon/Arch Devil
6 - Spectral Dragon
But I can be wrong, it's just how it seems to be to me. And I think that's a good thing. The Titan is powerful, but it's more of a slow-unit sweeper as the Dragon is. The Dragon will fly up to the strongest unit, and attack, whereas the Titan can throw to anyone he likes, especially slow stacks (Hydra, I'm looking at you) which can inflict massive damage when engaged in a melee.
The usefulness of the Titan and the Dragon is totally different. A Dragon-user is likely to have more mass spells, such as Armageddon, Mass Slow and spells like that to sever the opposing army, whereas a Titan's army can make use of blessings much more as the Dragon can.
Titans the strongest? Nah. In a one on one, I think they're likely to lose vs. most of the other units. The most all-around useful? Yes, I would say that, since the Titan is the one you could base the most strategies on. Sure, the Angels revival is grand, but as we've seen in Heroes 4, one simple Imp can take care of that.
As I said, it'll depend on your strategy which pinnacle unit will work best for you. Knowing how I like to play, I think I'll LOVE the Titans and the Spectral Dragons, but others just might love the Black Dragon or the Arch Devil. It's a matter of preference, and a matter of how you play, if you want to compare the units.
Summarizing: all-around, the Black Dragon might be more powerful (Specially in a 1 on 1), but power isn't everything.
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Evil_Warrior
Famous Hero
Duke of Demon
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posted March 23, 2006 04:04 PM |
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From what I've seen so far, the ranking seems kinda like:
1 - Black Dragon
2 - Titan/Arch Angel
4 - Gold Dragon/Arch Devil
6 - Spectral Dragon
The ranking you posted isn't wrong if according to HEROES 5 stats. But in Heroes 3 that I'm talking about, Black Dragon is weaker than Archangel and Titan.
And that is the situation that should be happen in Heroes 5.
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Dungeonian
Adventuring Hero
Supreme matriarch
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posted March 27, 2006 01:30 PM |
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Its obvious that every HMM fan wants make his/her favourite unit or the top unit of their favourite race to be the strongest one . As for me , it would be very nice to see the matriarchs and valkiries the most powerful and useful creatures in HMM , lets excuse me please this little portion of feminism -}
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Evil_Warrior
Famous Hero
Duke of Demon
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posted March 27, 2006 02:03 PM |
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Not Like That!
It must be a reason to say the creature must be the strongest. Like Archangels, what DOESN'T make you think that they should be placed in level 7 (strongest level) creatures? Or even Strongest creatures of all? That situation have EVER happened in H3. Not just unreasonable critic. How about the Matriarches???
Black Dragons may have some reasons too. But don't you think is better if the strongest creatures are BRAINED creatures like Archangels, Arch Devils (they are brained too), or Titans. Not just ANIMAL like Dragons. What will happen if the unbrained creatures RULE the world???
One point more : Archangels are NOT 'my favourite creatures or the top creatures.....' like you say. My favourite creatures are the Balors like in my signature.
Evil_Warrior
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Dungeonian
Adventuring Hero
Supreme matriarch
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posted March 29, 2006 12:14 PM |
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The dragons aren't brainless animals , they only have animal look . We can see reading a history of Ashan that every race have their dragon-god . So it's very probable that one of the neitral dragons will be the ultimate creature in HMM 5 , I highly doubt that developers will break traditions of series here .
But I hope that the units statistics in data files will not be coded and every player will have a possibility to change what he/she want . In such case you will play with your balors as super* , if you'll want this -)
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Hrushov17
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 29, 2006 03:43 PM |
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first of all bragons aren't brainless animals according to the stories they are quite smart 
and second of all, let's say u take a human and a comodo dragon or like a tiger...sure thing ur smarter but it will just tear u apeart 
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted March 29, 2006 06:13 PM |
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I decided to intervene...
The thread got off-topic a bit (as most replies do not include titan comparison ), but it is a nice and heated discussion (long since I saw one), so I decided to say what I am thinking
If speaking about the titans, I would not like them to be the strongest, even though they were quite like it in HMM3. They should deal LESS damage than most others, but they should have certain spell immunities and/or be able to invoke a lightning blast (either as a spell or in melee OR in addition to their ranged attack). It would make the game more vivid IMO, as having them with greatest skills, having most hit points and being able to attack from range ONLY would not be satisfactory at all.
On the other hand, titans were EXTREMELY strong in most other games and also in greek myths, and that could be a reason why to make them strongest (well, maybe not THE strongest, but one of them)
If speaking about other things...
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Its obvious that every HMM fan wants make his/her favourite unit or the top unit of their favourite race to be the strongest one . As for me , it would be very nice to see the matriarchs and valkiries the most powerful and useful creatures in HMM , lets excuse me please this little portion of feminism -}
Now what's to be excused here, Dungeonian  Everyone has its own favorites
Yet, I disagree with the statement that every fan wants to make his/her fav or top-leveled unit the strongest. I, for example, always favoured the gold dragons (tho they did not appear in H4). Yes, they were Implo fodder in HMM3 (sorry for the comparison with H3, but it was inevitable), and now they have complete immunity to it, and also are the fastest (most initiative) units, BUT I would not like it to be the strongest unit. Reasons for saying this are my own, but as the members in the thread speak of who should be the strongest, I would say that blackies should remain the strongest (with most skills, hp, damage).
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Black Dragons may have some reasons too. But don't you think is better if the strongest creatures are BRAINED creatures like Archangels, Arch Devils (they are brained too), or Titans. Not just ANIMAL like Dragons. What will happen if the unbrained creatures RULE the world???
Ahem??? Brainless, you say... I sincerely doubt that, mate. Refering to the old legends and tales of the dragons, they are like that. Their rampages 'are widely known', brutality - as another feature.
BUT, this is a fantasy world and it is made purely of imagination. Dragons can be both intelligent and not. The books - for example, " The Hobbit " - speak of the dragons as intelligent and wise, smart and greedy beings. But never should they be underestimated in terms of intelligence and "brains".
NB: The only known "dragons" to exist in RL - the Komodo Dragons - are often described as vicious and dangerous beings, yet smart and intelligent (don't go near unless you want to be fodder for 'em).
That's all I wanted to say now, but I think this discussion shall attract my attention further on.
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Evil_Warrior
Famous Hero
Duke of Demon
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posted March 29, 2006 06:21 PM |
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The dragons aren't brainless animals , they only have animal look . We can see reading a history of Ashan that every race have their dragon-god . So it's very probable that one of the neitral dragons will be the ultimate creature in HMM 5 , I highly doubt that developers will break traditions of series here .
But I hope that the units statistics in data files will not be coded and every player will have a possibility to change what he/she want . In such case you will play with your balors as super* , if you'll want this -)
Although Balors are my favourite creature, it doesn't mean that I want them to be the strongest. Favourite means can means useful, reasonable price, or good looked.
The Archangels looks much more brained with their humanlike body and wearing. So as Titans. And they are the creatures that will finish the Age of Dragons.
As my post many weeks ago, I just wanna give my opinion that HoMM should gives a chance to another creatures to be the Strongest creatures. If we see the fact, HoMM 1-5 are ruled by Dragons. So it is reasonable if I post this opinion.
Overall, Thanks to Dungeonian for the 'Brained Dragon' info. But I can say that they are unbrained is bcoz I'm Harry Potter fans. As you know, almost (or maybe all) dragons there(like Hungarian Needletail or Norwegian Ridgeback) are just unbrained animal.
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ComradeX
Known Hero
Demands raising new Titan's HP
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posted March 31, 2006 04:24 PM |
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Well, saying Dragons are just "brainless animals" is not correct. In most fantasy sagas, including HOMM, Dragons are described as brutal, dangerous, but also wise as they live for thousands of years. But still, Archangels and Titans are much wiser and "brainy". Archangels are immune to the effects of time and are devine, thus they have acces to all the knowledge there is. So do Titans who are gods themselves and have endless battle experience, being inhabited by the spirits of great heroes of the past.
Anyway, the "all mighty Dragons" tradition must end.
Dragons must remain strong, but not be the strongest.
It should be a close battle in stats and abilities between the Titans, Angels, Devils and Dragons (Black, Green, Skeleton...) in which all are powerfull and non is all powerfull. But at the end Dragons should not be strongest.
Each creature should have the highest rank in 1 field, for example: titans having most HP, Gold dragons having best speed, Archangels having most defence, Archdevils having most attack and Black Dragons having most damage.
Abilities to should be shared: 100% Magic immunity for Black Dragons, ranged & Mind spell immunity for Titans, ressurection for Archangels, teleportation & summoning for ArchDevils Partial magic immunity to Gold Dragons + Magic aura like the unicorns (to compensate for only partial magic immunity and being creatures of nature).
Thus there will be balance, but Dragons will lose by just a bit to Archangels, ArchDevils and Titans.
I would rank the creatures the following way, using HOMM V stat system:
1)Titan (200 HP, 30, 30 skills, 45 - 80 damage, 11 speed).
2)Archangel (180 HP, 30, 31 skills, 60 set damage, 13 speed).
3)Archdevil (175 HP, 31, 29 skills, 45 - 70 damage, 14 speed).
4)Black Dragon (190 HP, 30, 29 skills, 45 - 85 damage, 12 speed).
5)Gold Dragon (185 HP, 29, 30 skills, 45 - 65 damage, 15 speed).
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The frozen land of red Titans wishes you luck in your journeys
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Evil_Warrior
Famous Hero
Duke of Demon
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posted April 02, 2006 04:17 PM |
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Each creature should have the highest rank in 1 field, for example: titans having most HP, Gold dragons having best speed, Archangels having most defence, Archdevils having most attack and Black Dragons having most damage.
Abilities to should be shared: 100% Magic immunity for Black Dragons, ranged & Mind spell immunity for Titans, ressurection for Archangels, teleportation & summoning for ArchDevils Partial magic immunity to Gold Dragons + Magic aura like the unicorns (to compensate for only partial magic immunity and being creatures of nature).
Thus there will be balance, but Dragons will lose by just a bit to Archangels, ArchDevils and Titans.
I would rank the creatures the following way, using HOMM V stat system:
1)Titan (200 HP, 30, 30 skills, 45 - 80 damage, 11 speed).
2)Archangel (180 HP, 30, 31 skills, 60 set damage, 13 speed).
3)Archdevil (175 HP, 31, 29 skills, 45 - 70 damage, 14 speed).
4)Black Dragon (190 HP, 30, 29 skills, 45 - 85 damage, 12 speed).
5)Gold Dragon (185 HP, 29, 30 skills, 45 - 65 damage, 15 speed).
Nice Idea, ComradeX!
I just want to get some advice :
High morale of Archangel, Good luck of Gold Dragon, Best health (200) for Black Dragon, Greatest Damage (45 - 85) for Titan.
Where is Ghost Dragon? has it already had true stats?
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ComradeX
Known Hero
Demands raising new Titan's HP
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posted April 02, 2006 05:16 PM |
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Thanks for poining that out, Evil Warrior, but I suppose that as we can see from the new stats, the Ghost (or Spectral as it is called now) Dragon is out of it's league comparing to other 7th level creatures, which is why it has great growth rate as a compensation. The bone dragon has always been weaker then other highest level creatures.
No offense for Necro fans, but there is logic in that: the bone dragon is dead! it is not easy to raise a huge and mighty creature like a dragon (of any type) from the dead, and I assume it is impossible to bring the Bone Dragon back with all of the power of a living dragon. But, being made of bone, it is easy to raise them (with less power), thus you can have greater growth rate.
If I would make stats for the Ghost Dragon, it would look like that:
(continuing the list)
6)Soul Dragon (!) (160 HP, 26, 25 skills, 45 - 55 damage, 13 speed, is undead, is insubstential, has fear effect with melee attack, growth rate: 3)
*The other 7th level creatures have growth rate of 2
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The frozen land of red Titans wishes you luck in your journeys
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Evil_Warrior
Famous Hero
Duke of Demon
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posted April 06, 2006 02:31 PM |
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Spectral Dragon has already had amazing incorporeal ability. So it doesn't necessary to give more growth rate. And don't forget that being undead is one of useful advantages.
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ComradeX
Known Hero
Demands raising new Titan's HP
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posted April 06, 2006 03:00 PM |
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Curse that flood protect thing...
The incorporeal ability is very usefull, but if you look at the HOMM V stats (especialy the damage) of the Spectral Dragon you can certainly see that it lacks a lot compared to other troops of its level, despite being undead (which is mostly good). So IMO the growth rate of 3 is justified.
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The frozen land of red Titans wishes you luck in your journeys
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Evil_Warrior
Famous Hero
Duke of Demon
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posted April 12, 2006 04:41 PM |
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I'm still sure that being undead and having incorporeal ability is enough for Ghost Dragon so it is not quite needed to increase their growth rate.
Besides that, if a town has weak level 7, it can be balanced by making the other level to be stronger. Just look at Vampire Lord, Demilich, and Wraith. How powerful they are! It is better than change growth rate.
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Lich_King
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted April 12, 2006 04:56 PM |
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Well, saying Dragons are just "brainless animals" is not correct. In most fantasy sagas, including HOMM, Dragons are described as brutal, dangerous, but also wise as they live for thousands of years. But still, Archangels and Titans are much wiser and "brainy". Archangels are immune to the effects of time and are devine, thus they have acces to all the knowledge there is. So do Titans who are gods themselves and have endless battle experience, being inhabited by the spirits of great heroes of the past.
Anyway, the "all mighty Dragons" tradition must end.
The titans aren't really gods, roughly speaking they are golems with infused souls with heroes and after some magical modification, while Dragons are direct avatar of the gods in Homm5 themseves. Black Dragons are the lesser children of Malassa the Dragon of Darkness, while Emerald Dragons are the lesser brood of Sylanna the Dragon of Earth. Bone Dragons are not linked to any of diety, though necromancers are worshiping the dark aspect of Primal Dragon of Order. Angels are creatures of pure light, though they are not direct brood of Elrath, dragon of Light too, Devils are creations of Dragon of Chaos, though I guess they only recieved blessing of chaos upon them, rather being spawned by any of the Elemental or Primal Dragon aspects. So leaving Dragons as most powerful creature of Homm5 was intentional due the storyline and world consept. Although I also didn't like the Dragon being most powerful creature in the game (especially in Homm3, where there were so many of those dragons), now I don't mind having Black Dragon as most powerful creature, as it is already a tradition.
Besides what concerns the dragons they are extremly intelligent, and their intelligence might be even far more grater than of Titans or Angels.
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Evil_Warrior
Famous Hero
Duke of Demon
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posted April 12, 2006 05:08 PM |
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[quote. Although I also didn't like the Dragon being most powerful creature in the game (especially in Homm3, where there were so many of those dragons), now I don't mind having Black Dragon as most powerful creature, as it is already a tradition.
This thread discussed what should be happened. Not based on the tradition as you say. Why don't we break the tradition with the better ones?
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Hrushov17
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 12, 2006 09:57 PM |
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it's a bad idea of braeking the tradition... I think it should be left as is cause it is good enuf...let's not risk it and as for me I personally dont' like the titans
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