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| Thread: Should Titans be the most powerfull creature? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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ComradeX
Known Hero
Demands raising new Titan's HP
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posted April 12, 2006 11:06 PM |
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Well, as in HOMM V for now, based on the story and the history of Ashaan, she dragons are the gods of the realm, so there is logic in making their "lesser children" powerfull. But still, I think that it is boring having the Black Dragon as strongest, again. We have seen enough of it in the past 5 HOMM games, especialy in HOMM I & HOMM IV.
Yes, it is a tradition, but it is boring! we need change.
Traditions should not be eternal, and as they get old (these one has shorely out lived it self, IMO) they should be replaced.
Titans are "golems" which have the spirits of great heroes of the past in them, thus being wise and experinced with the knowledge of the past, and the knowledge of the after world, haven or devine realm as some may call it (the heroes have returned to Ashaan from some kind of "Valhalla", so they should have learned a lot there in terms of divine knowledge and enlightment).
Angels (and Devils who are rebel Angels) are devine, so they are wise and powerfull.
All 3 mentioned above are good enough to be the best creatures of the game. IMO any of them can be the heir to the Black Dragon, but still there should be balance and a tight rivalry in stats and abilities between all 7th level creatures (and not having weaker ones like Ghost Dragon in HOMM V).
As for intellegence, Dragons are wise, but I don't think that they posses drvine knowledge, so they are not as wise as Titans, Angels or Devils. They are smarter than most other creatures as they live for many thousands of years, though...
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The frozen land of red Titans wishes you luck in your journeys
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Evil_Warrior
Famous Hero
Duke of Demon
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posted April 18, 2006 01:04 PM |
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Quote:
it's a bad idea of braeking the tradition..
No problem if there are some new better.
And by viewing some threads like this, we will get them.
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kinslayer
Sometimes death seems better-
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posted May 14, 2006 08:52 PM |
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well i dont think the dragons should be the strongest creatures in h5
they were already strong enough in prev h games, and beside that are 3 types of dragons. it's just to much for a single game. cmon...it's heroes of m&m not dragons of m&m. why not an asian dragon in the expansion, maibe 3 are not enough  .
and about the titans: in mithology they were realy strong.
i dont say they must be the strongest creature in h5, but some hp could be added.
ps: i realy like the dragons, but i desagee with the fact that drags must be the strongest. after all the titans were fighting with the gods, not the drags
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Hrushov17
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 14, 2006 09:31 PM |
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but in these series dragons ARE gods  lol
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Ellderon
Adventuring Hero
Lightbringer
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posted May 15, 2006 10:22 AM |
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I hate the idea of dragons as gods...really I do....
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elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo
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ComradeX
Known Hero
Demands raising new Titan's HP
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posted May 15, 2006 12:38 PM |
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Well, the idea of Dragon gods sucks IMO. Do you realy see the Angels being created by a big dragon in Heaven? do you realy see a dragons sitting on the devine throne and saying "I am god"? I personaly do not!
The gods (or ancients) from the previous games were just perfect for that role, as they intervianed, but not directly. Any way, gods are universal, so what's up with the Ancients? where are they? the are suppose to be in every universe! I just don't see dragons in this role.
Imagine a dragon coming to Tarnum and saying "if you want to get to heaven you will have to do some tasks for the sake of good".
That's just wrong!
And about the Titans, yes they should have more HP! they always had more! even in HOMM IV (that sucks!), when they were not that stong they had 210 HP! BD's had 400... now BD's have 250 and Titans only 190! that's an outrage! Titans should have largest HP, traditionaly.
If you want BD's to be stronger you can give them skills of 33 for instance. But come on! both Titan and Black Dragon should have largest HP. Black Dragon already has more damage (that wasn't like that in HOMM III...), and it can have more skill (32 or 33) but giving the Titan so little HP... that is sooooooo wrong! Nival have you been hit on your heads by a brick?
Now Titans have the lowest HP among 7th level creatures after the Ghost Dragon... do you think that is O.K ????????!!!!!!!!
When I get the game, I am gonna do some healthy modding...
By the way, do you know how much damage does the Titan's lightning attack does? (per unit)
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The frozen land of red Titans wishes you luck in your journeys
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Hrushov17
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 15, 2006 05:58 PM |
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just get over it titans are golemns in this game neways..so they are like robots with some soul..:S
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ComradeX
Known Hero
Demands raising new Titan's HP
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posted May 15, 2006 07:59 PM |
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Robots? not realy... they do look less lively and more artificial...
but hey! the soul is of great heroes of the past, and this, the soul is the thing that makes all the difference...
Tell me Hrushov17 are a fan of Dragons? (if that is not obvious by now...).
Even if you are, don't you think it is a bit wrong to make them gods?
They should be powerfull, that's true, even among the most powerfull of species, but do you realy see them as gods? don't you (and everybody else) agree that devinities should be more abstract, less conected with a cirtain specie that HEROES, who are just an inferior life form with whom the gods play, can control and command? don't you think that the Ancients were more suited for that role? can you realy imagine an Angel serving a Dragon? I certainly can't...
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The frozen land of red Titans wishes you luck in your journeys
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Hrushov17
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 15, 2006 09:47 PM |
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well the acients WOULD suit better but it is som what imaginable, kind of hard to explain since if dragons are gods they don't have to behave act just as the acients but still dragons are counted as really intellegent creatures and I bet if u'd run into a komodo (however u spell that) dragon that is even smaller than u...he'd kcik ur a$$ (mine too) so I think dragons should be the most powerful but titans CAN be more usefull since they are ranged
(and yeah I loved dragons since I was like 4 or 5 ain't that obvious)
so maybe dragons shouldn't be gods but they should be stronger than titans
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ComradeX
Known Hero
Demands raising new Titan's HP
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posted May 15, 2006 10:47 PM |
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There is a difference between real life and HOMM, Comrade Hrushov.
If I'll meet a Kimodo Dragon on the street (more reasonably in the jungle) I will flee, and the Lizard will propably do the same (they are not known for eating humans, but may defend a nest or themselves if cornered, but they won't attack on purpose).
As for HOMM, I think that it is wrong for Dragons to be devine.
They should be powerfull, but the BD is too powerfull again.
Best HP, best damage, 2nd best stats (att & def)... that's too much!
And Titans have been made too weak because of their low HP and the fact they have such a little number of shots. I think that there should always be a draw situation between Titan and Black Dragon, even if Black Dragon wins by one turn or so. It should be close, regardless of who is a bit stronger. Besides in both HOMM II & HOMM III Titans had best HP, so why stop that now?!
If you want to give both creatures the same skills, that OK. Same speed, that's OK. A bit more damage to BD, that's OK. All the traditional abilities (Titan being ranged, no melee penalty, mind spell imunity, lightning with attack , Black Dragon having magic immunity, breath attack, flying ability) great, but what's up with the HP??!!
Titans should have much more HP, if not the most, then 2nd most!
Black Dragons got 250, Angels got 220, so Titans should have at least 230 if not 240!
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The frozen land of red Titans wishes you luck in your journeys
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted May 15, 2006 10:57 PM |
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Quote:
There is a difference between real life and HOMM, Comrade Hrushov.
If I'll meet a Kimodo Dragon on the street (more reasonably in the jungle) I will flee, and the Lizard will propably do the same (they are not known for eating humans, but may defend a nest or themselves if cornered, but they won't attack on purpose).
As for HOMM, I think that it is wrong for Dragons to be devine.
They should be powerfull, but the BD is too powerfull again.
Best HP, best damage, 2nd best stats (att & def)... that's too much!
And Titans have been made too weak because of their low HP and the fact they have such a little number of shots. I think that there should always be a draw situation between Titan and Black Dragon, even if Black Dragon wins by one turn or so. It should be close, regardless of who is a bit stronger. Besides in both HOMM II & HOMM III Titans had best HP, so why stop that now?!
If you want to give both creatures the same skills, that OK. Same speed, that's OK. A bit more damage to BD, that's OK. All the traditional abilities (Titan being ranged, no melee penalty, mind spell imunity, lightning with attack , Black Dragon having magic immunity, breath attack, flying ability) great, but what's up with the HP??!!
Titans should have much more HP, if not the most, then 2nd most!
Black Dragons got 250, Angels got 220, so Titans should have at least 230 if not 240!
I think the low number of shots will not really be a problem, because a) your titans will end up in close combat and b) you can bye an armo cart, which your gremlins will repair (if I understand things right). That being said, I don't think some more hit points would hurt the titan - at least just an even 200. However, I think that would risk overpowering that Academy fraction - especially because the titan is susceptible to magic such as bless (always a winning strategy) and also, the wizard will be able to provide it with artefacts to improve its odds. As it is, the Academy is still nominably the strongest fraction. Actually, the only thing I should have been done was raising the initiative from 10 to 11 (or 12) on upgrade from Giant to Titan, in order to provide the Titan the first strike against the Black Dragon.
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Hrushov17
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 15, 2006 11:33 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
There is a difference between real life and HOMM, Comrade Hrushov.
If I'll meet a Kimodo Dragon on the street (more reasonably in the jungle) I will flee, and the Lizard will propably do the same (they are not known for eating humans, but may defend a nest or themselves if cornered, but they won't attack on purpose).
As for HOMM, I think that it is wrong for Dragons to be devine.
They should be powerfull, but the BD is too powerfull again.
Best HP, best damage, 2nd best stats (att & def)... that's too much!
And Titans have been made too weak because of their low HP and the fact they have such a little number of shots. I think that there should always be a draw situation between Titan and Black Dragon, even if Black Dragon wins by one turn or so. It should be close, regardless of who is a bit stronger. Besides in both HOMM II & HOMM III Titans had best HP, so why stop that now?!
If you want to give both creatures the same skills, that OK. Same speed, that's OK. A bit more damage to BD, that's OK. All the traditional abilities (Titan being ranged, no melee penalty, mind spell imunity, lightning with attack , Black Dragon having magic immunity, breath attack, flying ability) great, but what's up with the HP??!!
Titans should have much more HP, if not the most, then 2nd most!
Black Dragons got 250, Angels got 220, so Titans should have at least 230 if not 240!
I think the low number of shots will not really be a problem, because a) your titans will end up in close combat and b) you can bye an armo cart, which your gremlins will repair (if I understand things right). That being said, I don't think some more hit points would hurt the titan - at least just an even 200. However, I think that would risk overpowering that Academy fraction - especially because the titan is susceptible to magic such as bless (always a winning strategy) and also, the wizard will be able to provide it with artefacts to improve its odds. As it is, the Academy is still nominably the strongest fraction. Actually, the only thing I should have been done was raising the initiative from 10 to 11 (or 12) on upgrade from Giant to Titan, in order to provide the Titan the first strike against the Black Dragon.
I disagree with rasing the initiative...ur the one that has created the power*growth chart...as u can see Acadamy is the most powerfull faction already according to that chart and abt the limited shots...titans can always summon lightning...so I think it is quite fair for BD be taht strong...seince dungeon has such small growth for all the other units
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ComradeX
Known Hero
Demands raising new Titan's HP
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posted May 15, 2006 11:48 PM |
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You want the BD to be strongest, OK, a screwed up tradition...
but still, Titans should have more HP. Academy is a strong faction, and Ttians are powerfull, but the lack of HP is a serious problem. Titans are very expenssive, so when (and if) you finaly get them, they should be damm strong! I agree that they should have at least an even 200 HP, so they would be 3rd on HP, or even 210 for balance. They are strong, but the poor 5 shots decreases their ranged ability's effectiveness greatly, and you can't always have an ammo cart and plenty of Gremlins around (the thing said about the Gremlins ability to repair machinis is correct).
In any case, it is just wrong to give the Titans such low HP.
Black Dragons are traditionaly strongest, and they are "children of the gods" and are rare, that's OK. Angels are servants of the devine, so they should be very strong (they are), so giving the Archangel 220 HP is acceptible. But giving the Titans only 190 HP...?
Do you hate them so much, Nival? that is just cruel!
And if you look at the creatures you'll see that Academy is not that all powerfull. Gremlins are OK but are weak, gargoyles are almost useless offensively, and golems are very slow. That's for early game. Both Mage and Djinn are physicaly fragile and weak, and like the Titan, lack HP (that problem seems to be an all out Academy plague...).
Rashkasa units are low on defense (look at the Champion, Pitlord or Wraith for comparison), and Ttians are in need of HP.
So the academy is screwed in HP and sometimes defense.
Not so all powerfull now, is it? (and believe me this is objective! I am a bit Academy fan, and this makes me sad and angry at the same time).
Thus, for the sake of balance, tradition and fairness, the Titans must have at least 200 HP.
Waiting for a correction patch 
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The frozen land of red Titans wishes you luck in your journeys
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Hrushov17
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 15, 2006 11:56 PM |
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OK but if u look at Dungeon...they do have strong units but the growth rate is pathetic... and blood furys have no hp ...minatores no defence ...if u compare those dinasoure riding things to mages...sure they have good stats but mages with their magic will just wipe them out and hidras are ok but their dmg...is just ew those witches...are somewhat ok I guess...they have some good spells but no good dmg spells...and as for early games they have a very limited army...good quality but low very low in numbers...I liked acadamy in heroes 3...then now I just don't like it that much cause no nagas but my fav as u can c IS dungeon I just wish the growth rate was bigger....and BD is not THAT much stronger than titans...andn they ARE hard to get too BD is like the only creature that boosts power growth thing up...imo the stats are fine...even thought I'd make the BD stronger but that's too much
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted May 16, 2006 12:00 AM |
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titans can always summon lightning...so I think it is quite fair for BD be taht strong...seince dungeon has such small growth for all the other units
They can, but that'll not help them against the black dragon. And be aware, that the Dungeon may have low numbers of their level 1 through 3 creatures, but that's only because they are like 2 or 3 time as powerful as the other creatures pr. unit. The same to lesser extent goes for the Sylvan units (on level one and two, the Dungeon unit is 3 times and the Sylvan unit 2 times as powerful as the other units; on third level, the dungeon unit is 1.5 times as powerful as the other units). Therefore, you cannot directly compare creature growth rates as a meassure of strength.
However, you are probably right, that the Academy fraction is strong enough as it is - but one should also take into account that a lot of that power is accumulated in ranged (and therefore relatively frail) units, like the Gremlin and the Mage (and the Titan) and then in deffensive units like the Gargoyle and the Golem. That gives the Academy a distinct offensive disadvantage - which is even more pronounced when you take into consideration the critically low hit points of the otherwise offensively quite capable genie. Also, the Rakshasa, which has good offensive power, suffer from a lack of special powers like spellcasting abilities or flying, which would have made it a better all-round attack unit (even though it does have the no-retaliation ability, but this is not quite as important as in Heroes IV - at least not, if you take the anemy unit out).
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ComradeX
Known Hero
Demands raising new Titan's HP
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posted May 16, 2006 10:39 AM |
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Dungeoun troops have low growth rate cause they are stronger then most other creatures of their level. If you look at assasins, Blood furies and Minotaurs you'll see that they are prety strong, and each one has a certain quality that makes it much stronger then other units of that level. Assasins are ranged, have poison attack and stats of a 2nd level troop. Blood Furies are like harpies, purely offensive and very very fast (also have no retaliation and strike & return). Minotaurs may be low on defense, but when upgraded get 2 hit per attack and a whooping 35 HP, more then most 4th level creatures, including the Archmage and the Druid Elder. Grim Raiders have a huge 60 HP (almost like level 5), great skills a charge attack with double effectiveness (20% per tile compared to cavaliers 10% per tile bonus), and can attack more then one creature with lizard bite. The Hydra is slow, but it has great skills (15 15), 125 HP (level 6 creatures envy that!) and can regenerate like Vampires (even ressurect itself!). Matriarchs are ranged, cast spells (as magic or in melee), and have good damage. Black Dragon... I think we already know enough about this over powered creature...
This line up opens the way for several useful and versitile strategies for using the Dungeoun, and there is no "well fitted" oponent agains this faction.
Besides that, Dungeoun is pretty powerfull magic wise. It has great magic orientation and potential, especialy for offensive magic.
This town has the most powerfull offensive magic abilities, and ifrustructure that supports it. And let's not forget elemental chains that make Dungeoun attacks even more powerfull, in attack and magic.
Lets look at a few examples of Dungeoun power:
1)Matriarchs with Bless.
2)Deep Dragons with good spells on them (yes this is possible for the first time, as they only have 50% imunity to harmfull and negative spells). Consider at least 75 damage per unit in one attack...
3)Lizards with haste.
4)Blood furies stationed at the back with Haste and frenzy (remember HOMM III).
5)And the classic: Hydra with teleport 
Can you still say that Dungeoun is not strong, not as strong as the Academy, or anyone else?
Do you still find it OK to make the Titan so poor on HP?!
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The frozen land of red Titans wishes you luck in your journeys
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Ellderon
Adventuring Hero
Lightbringer
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posted May 18, 2006 10:42 AM |
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The Dungeon does sound a bit overpowered.
Given that their units are so powerfull, in a Player vs. Player game where both sides build up armies and then clash I'd say that if the dungoen manages to keep theri losses till that to a minimum does have a edge...
Only time and testing will tell though..
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elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted May 18, 2006 01:12 PM |
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The Hydra is slow, but it has great skills (15 15), 125 HP (level 6 creatures envy that!) and can regenerate like Vampires (even ressurect itself!).
Nooooooooo that must be a mistake? If they can self-resurrect, they are virtually invincible???
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ComradeX
Known Hero
Demands raising new Titan's HP
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posted May 18, 2006 01:19 PM |
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Ohh yes it can. From what we know from www.heroesofmightandmagic.com, the site that has the largest amount of info on HOMM games, including HOMM V, the Hydra can regenerate, even regenerate dead units from it's stack... 
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The frozen land of red Titans wishes you luck in your journeys
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Hrushov17
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 18, 2006 02:07 PM |
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it can but only by a bit...the most hydras I had ressurected was like 1 or two...and it is slow so it does it really rare...so it's not raelly all that strong
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