|
| Thread: Strongest Town & Weakest Town in HOMM3 |  This thread is pages long: 1 ... 6 7 8 9 10 ... 20 30 34 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
dohh
Hired Hero
|
posted October 02, 2007 04:19 PM |
|
|
|
Really dont mind. Have to try only if I can get gamespy working only. The problem is: i'm sitting in a LAN. Have played with my best friends till far, maybe it's only our opinion that we're good. But... if you have played a game for 10 years, you supposed to be, huh?
|
|
liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
|
|
posted October 02, 2007 04:22 PM |
|
|
LAN is not a problem, you install hamachi and play easily without real IP adress.
And if you play 10 years the game, most of the time - against human - yea, you are supposed to be good. Offcourse - the more humans you played - the better. If you have played only against your 14-years old neighbours - doesnt matter that much...
And thats why it will be nice for everyone to meat new opponents - for you, and for us.
|
|
Gallow
Bad-mannered
Known Hero
Avenger
|
|
posted October 02, 2007 04:51 PM |
|
|
|
good,but it depends of much factors too,and i dont care of that in small maps fortress or stronghold,or in xl map necro,i just play with stronghold or other in l and xl and np at all,i can get a lot of lvl 1 maybe a bit less than necro,but still,i dont care the mague guild so much like others..
|
|
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
|
|
posted October 02, 2007 05:26 PM |
|
Edited by angelito at 17:31, 02 Oct 2007.
|
I'm eager to know:
What is "risky" in taking Stronghold and Crag Hack?????
And then....name a "bad" barbarian hero..
Playing that game for 10 years doesn't automatically mean you are a "strong" player. 1 year online = beats anyone who plays 10 years offline.
Refering to your results:
It would help much more to know at what time u had final battle (month, week, day), what level and who was your main hero, and what size did the map have.
Some, if not most, of the results are pretty uncommon though.
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
|
|
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
|
|
posted October 02, 2007 05:37 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Inferno - Rampart Won. Waited all army, he casted mass bless, me mass sorrow. Either of us didn't dare to attack. Hit dragons at the end of turn and jumped back to my army with devils. He saw that has no choice but to attack. So he did. And lost.
Sorry to say, but this red marked part doesn't show very skilled usage of magic. Who would ever cast "mass bless" as first spell? And who the heck would counter this with "mass sorrow"?
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
|
|
SwampLord
Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
|
|
posted October 02, 2007 06:42 PM |
|
|
Why did you call Stronghold "barbarians" instead of it's real name, like you did for all other towns?
Also, Angelito's right. There is nothing risky in the slightest about taking Crag Hack with Stronghold.
|
|
dohh
Hired Hero
|
|
posted October 03, 2007 07:50 AM |
|
|
I'm not being insolent or anything, but I guess, that you guys play with very strict rules online. Or am I wrong?
Ancient behemoth are slow and natural defense skill of 18. If you split your arch angels, you can take counterstrike with single one, cast mass prayer and hit behemoths with every last creature in your army with a very high morale...
Heroes must be very strong and armies very big to make this fact less important. So do you play like XL maps only? I will try do install this software that allows to play without real IP this weekend, because I'm really curious what are you talking about.
So do you play with rules like: No sudden attack, no portaling, no ...? When I have played, the were no rules at all. You can attack or be attacked at every time and every way. Even strategy of attacking with single phoenix, casting armagetton and retreating was allowed. So maybe we're talking about different things and both of us are right...
About mass bless: whats wrong with mass bless when both players had might heroes (about 20-21 level) and only one shooter in army? I don't see, he did anything wrong. And whats wrong with sorrow, if I saw, that I can cast first at next round anyway? PLaying on sorrow, is playing on luck. Good (and bad) morale and luck are very important features in this game. Extra move for key units can turn the result of battles.
|
|
liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
|
|
posted October 03, 2007 09:59 AM |
|
|
More or less, thats the rules we play with:
http://randommaps.siteburg.com/rules3.htm
About the matter with expert bless round 1 - its just that the opponent may cast expert haste, wait with his creatures and than slash you.It doesnt matter if with expert bless you hit at maximum dmg, since you will not hit at all
And by the time second round begins, he will cast expert slow, or curse or blind your best stack, so you pretty much will be massacared before you have the chance to play with your units at all.
|
|
dohh
Hired Hero
|
|
posted October 03, 2007 12:42 PM |
|
|
My humble opinion again:
* DD/Fly (you can''t use Dimention Door and Fly spells as well as Angel Wings artefact) - Means you take an advantage from magic oriented heroes, that have got a lot of spell points and could visit more skill buildings at the same time, but leave advantages to might based heroes. It also means, that I can't attack you from a big distance, suprizing effect dissapears and you don't have to have a strong army at all times at your main hero anymore. You also take an advantage from Tower, which has 2 5th level spells and is more likely to get dimension door as a rather rare magic.
- no Scrolls Level 4 - 5 (you can''t use magic scrolls with spells Level 4 - 5) Doesn't matter how you get your magic, its all about luck. Pointless rule imho. Also - leaving scroll in inventory, means the player couldn't use one slot for other artefacts.
- no Necro (you can''t select Necropolis as starting town, you can't use Necro skill (must dismiss all gained skeletons after each battle) and can't build new creature buildings in necro towns if you will find them) Huh... you permit one race? Why? Make a new system of ratings, where town is also important. It's almost the same as to permit Crag Hack, Tazar, Armagetton etc.
- no Conflux (you can''t select Conflux as starting town, and can't build new creature buildings in flux towns if you will find them really guys... no comments. Conflux is nothing special... They suck.
- no Diplo (you can''t take, level up Diplomacy skill and join monsters.) Why the hell not? If i sarcifice one skill slot for diplomacy, it's a fair deal... Walking around (without dimension) and collecting creatures - this all takes time... which is very very very expensive!
no Joiners (you can''t join wandering monsters even without Diplomacy skill) Next you'll say... that I have to dismiss mosnters from pandora box as well... Diplomacy is a strategy, just as pure might or magic. Why to permit it?
- no Log spec (Kyrre, Gunnar, Dessa can't be starting hero and can't attack into final battle. Final battle happens were both heroes have >50% HP of their bought troops) Again... Why you permit Kyrre, and allow to play with Crag Hack??? I wouldn't say, he's better...
- no Grail (you can''t build Grail in towns) everybody has an opportunity to go for grail... it means you have to visit more stones, and sacrifise time from improving you hero etc.
- no Carto (you can''t visit Cartographer) The only thing till far, I'm agree with...
- no Hillfort (you can''t upgrade creatures in Hillfort) Why on earth no? It means, you have to keep your non-upgraded creatures somewhere and sacrifice time each time you go for upgrading.
- no Upgrades (you can''t upgrade creatures from Conservatories/Hives) Guys... if you want to remove all the luck from game... permit leadership and luck skill as well...
maximum 1 level 7 dwell of each town type is allowed to flag on the whole map for one player. Pointless rule, if no DD and fly is applied allready... You just take the dwelling away if you like... Don't let him to have any creatures from there...
- no Doublebuild (you can't build up 2 same towns. Not allowed to build only creature dwellings level3-7. Example: if player start with Dungeon and has 2 Strongholds then he is allowed to build 1 Stronghold and Dungeon) Holy god... If you play after crap rules like this... I understand why you didn't agree with me in discussion of strong towns...
- no Red Rush - reasonable...
- no Hit & Run (Fleeing or surrendering from combat is not allowed for the first 3 rounds if you have done more damage to your opponent than he has done to you (HP). You are allowed to flee/surrender in any situation if that is the first action you take. Not allowed to use magic level 3+ by prison heroes level11 or higher If my opponents likes to take the change that I DON'T have speed-improving artefacts or shackles on my haro then... I don't mind... be my quest... You would get a little advantage if you succeed with this strategy, but you will be dead if don't...
RESTARTS:
Player can take restart during first 3 own turns:
- if there is no road to second town on Balance template
- 1 restart with no reason
Players must always restart if starting hero is not Level 1 I ave never-ever restarted the map because I find it unequal...
Conclusion: we WERE talking about differen things. You have used to create as equal conditions as possible and then play... I have used to play and give your best with the conditions given! I could bet real money, that you wont win me on completely random map when everything is allowed. In my opinion all the magic of HOMM3 is... that every town has its weaknesses and strengts, but they work only if everything is allowed and you can be attacked or attack in every possible way absolutely each turn...
|
|
Gallow
Bad-mannered
Known Hero
Avenger
|
|
posted October 03, 2007 01:21 PM |
|
|
I think thats more about game rules than about weak or strong towns in homm3 but well,this is my final opinion,for me there is not weak or strong towns,it just how do you play with it,and if you love that town,if you feel you manage it good,then welcome  ,thats your town,you choosed it cos suits your gameplay,thats what i think,and maybe others too,so this is more than your favorite town than stronger or weak cos there is not.
|
|
liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
|
|
posted October 03, 2007 01:30 PM |
|
|
I will not enter in discussion about whether this rules are fair, do they have sence and are they usefull. This argues have been taken milion times.
I will just say, that this rules are not just picked by somebody, but thats the common opinion of the majority of the players and have been proven throughout the years.
You may like diplo, dimension door and so on. But with them allowed you will play only with your friends and will not be part of the larger community.
|
|
champion
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted October 03, 2007 02:10 PM |
|
|
Hi again,
Let me explain my ranking a bit:
I put Conflux on the 1st place my list (see my list above).
I've read an opinion that 2 Phoenix always lose vs 1 Archangel.
It's okay but can you buy half as much ArchAngels as much Phoenix I buy in a given time? I don't think so. That's why Conflux is still the best on MY list.
As I said, I consider Castle the most balanced town overall. But Angels are so expensive to built and to buy once built. Need too much resource and money I think.
Why my favourite monster after the Behemoth is the Gorgon I guess, I am not a good Fortress player. I miss the Mage guild 4-5 and the high end creatures are weak (Wyvern is useless and Hydras could be better).
Tower has the strongest units (Naga and Titan rule) but way too expensive again....Inferno is simply the worst because it's weak and expensive. Cerberus and Demon are useless.
I like to play with Dungeon and Rampart. It has good mage guild and troops and quite easy to built (except the dragons). While I consider Necropolis the 2nd best town (because of Skeletons and Dread Knight) I don't like to play with it.
That's how it goes....
Regards,
Champ.
|
|
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
|
|
posted October 03, 2007 02:20 PM |
|
Edited by angelito at 14:24, 03 Oct 2007.
|
Quote:
My humble opinion again:
* DD/Fly (you can''t use Dimention Door and Fly spells as well as Angel Wings artefact) - Means you take an advantage from magic oriented heroes, that have got a lot of spell points and could visit more skill buildings at the same time, but leave advantages to might based heroes. It also means, that I can't attack you from a big distance, suprizing effect dissapears and you don't have to have a strong army at all times at your main hero anymore. You also take an advantage from Tower, which has 2 5th level spells and is more likely to get dimension door as a rather rare magic.
It is not about magic or might heroes. It is about ruining the map setup. What "skill" is needed to kill 65 imps day 3 who guard a spellscroll "dimension door" and then jump around and collect all superior artefatcs u see without doing any fights? Even might heroes can get expert air and knowledge 10 pretty fast to cast 4 times DD...
Quote:
- no Scrolls Level 4 - 5 (you can''t use magic scrolls with spells Level 4 - 5) Doesn't matter how you get your magic, its all about luck. Pointless rule imho. Also - leaving scroll in inventory, means the player couldn't use one slot for other artefacts.
See above. And scroll has only to be in slot WHEN CASTING THE SPELL. So when I enter a fight I could remove it and put artefact instead.
Quote:
- no Necro (you can''t select Necropolis as starting town, you can't use Necro skill (must dismiss all gained skeletons after each battle) and can't build new creature buildings in necro towns if you will find them) Huh... you permit one race? Why? Make a new system of ratings, where town is also important. It's almost the same as to permit Crag Hack, Tazar, Armagetton etc.
I'm eager to see how u beat Necro on an XL map. If u do, u prolly never have met a player with at least slightly above average skill.
Quote:
- no Conflux (you can''t select Conflux as starting town, and can't build new creature buildings in flux towns if you will find them really guys... no comments. Conflux is nothing special... They suck.
See above.
Quote:
- no Diplo (you can''t take, level up Diplomacy skill and join monsters.) Why the hell not? If i sarcifice one skill slot for diplomacy, it's a fair deal... Walking around (without dimension) and collecting creatures - this all takes time... which is very very very expensive!
Of course diplo is part of the game. But it has nothing to do with skill. If u wanna do a car race vs your friend to see who is the better driver, what would u say if he calls a friend of him, a professional NASCAR driver, to take his place and drive the race?
Quote:
no Joiners (you can''t join wandering monsters even without Diplomacy skill) Next you'll say... that I have to dismiss mosnters from pandora box as well... Diplomacy is a strategy, just as pure might or magic. Why to permit it?
On randoms, no neutral stack, whcih is placed on the map since day 1 would ever join a hero if he doesnt have diplo skill. This is different to those creatures which are placed on the map when new week says somehting like "pegasi population doubled", "imp population doubled" or similar. Those creatures could join the hero. And the chances of joining raises when the hero has same kind of unit in his army (imagine u play Rampart and it is week of pegasi). Most of those pegasi would join YOU, but not your opponent, coz he plays Inferno for example. So this is just a hugh advantage which is not needed.
Quote:
- no Log spec (Kyrre, Gunnar, Dessa can't be starting hero and can't attack into final battle. Final battle happens were both heroes have >50% HP of their bought troops) Again... Why you permit Kyrre, and allow to play with Crag Hack??? I wouldn't say, he's better...
I agree. Rules about heroes are not needed.
Quote:
- no Grail (you can''t build Grail in towns) everybody has an opportunity to go for grail... it means you have to visit more stones, and sacrifise time from improving you hero etc.
Agreed. Very old rule from former times when games lasted longer.
Quote:
- no Hillfort (you can''t upgrade creatures in Hillfort) Why on earth no? It means, you have to keep your non-upgraded creatures somewhere and sacrifice time each time you go for upgrading.
No. A scout could bring the non upgraded units to the hillfort and upgrade them. It is not about the units from 1-5, but the high level units. Building the upgrade of the dwelling in your town is very very expensive (Archangel building costs 20.000 and 10 of each res., Titans cost 30 gems(!!) and 25.000 gold). And a hillfort has a very small value on a random map and could be easily replaced by a crypt. For the computer, both buildings (hillfort and crypt) have about the same value. So when he places his objects on the map, he could place a hillfort in your, and a crypt in my area. All fair and square for him. But we both know it is not...
Quote:
- no Upgrades (you can''t upgrade creatures from Conservatories/Hives) Guys... if you want to remove all the luck from game... permit leadership and luck skill as well...
This is a rule which makes the game very fair. Castle is already a very powerfull town, with probably the most powerfull unit in the game. If u play Dungeon and I play Castle, and we both find some conservatories, I can just upgarde those angels and still have only 1 stack of AAs in my army. You on the other hand would have to leave out a native unit to replace it with normal angels. Not to mention u prolly cant upgrade them coz u don't have a hillfort near. Same goes with Fortress and wyverns. So if no1 is allowed to upgrade these additional units, everyone has to remove 1 stack to be able to use them.
Quote:
maximum 1 level 7 dwell of each town type is allowed to flag on the whole map for one player. Pointless rule, if no DD and fly is applied allready... You just take the dwelling away if you like... Don't let him to have any creatures from there...
This again shows u never play online or vs strong players. Level 7 dwellings are mostly flagged week ONE. So at the time we both meet, I have already a bunch full of level 7 units before u even have the chance to "take the dwelling away". All these rules are made coz the comp has set the value of those map objects too low. 1 player has 3 level 7 dwellings in his area, which would bring 6 (!!) additional level 7 units each week, while the other has a small naga bank and a level 10 prison hero. Not quite fair, don't u think?
Quote:
- no Doublebuild (you can't build up 2 same towns. Not allowed to build only creature dwellings level3-7. Example: if player start with Dungeon and has 2 Strongholds then he is allowed to build 1 Stronghold and Dungeon) Holy god... If you play after crap rules like this... I understand why you didn't agree with me in discussion of strong towns...
If u would play some games vs strong online players, you would pretty fast agree to those rules. If u find a second town of different type near, u prolly wont build it up to level 7, coz u couln't use all the additonal units. Your hero just has only 7 slots for creatures. If i find 2nd town of same tyep, I just double up my army without giving up any creature.
Quote:
- no Hit & Run (Fleeing or surrendering from combat is not allowed for the first 3 rounds if you have done more damage to your opponent than he has done to you (HP). You are allowed to flee/surrender in any situation if that is the first action you take. Not allowed to use magic level 3+ by prison heroes level11 or higher If my opponents likes to take the change that I DON'T have speed-improving artefacts or shackles on my haro then... I don't mind... be my quest... You would get a little advantage if you succeed with this strategy, but you will be dead if don't...
Let's see...u come near my home area. I have found a prison hero (Malekith) level 30 with expert fire and expert scholar. I teach him armageddon and give him 1 Archangel vs your dungeon army. He attacks you and casts armageddon. 80% of your army is dead except the black dragons. Now my main hero with full army attacks yours and just makes a BBQ with your blackies. You think that's a fair game? You wasted 3-6 hours gameplay to have a 10 second lasting endfight? I'm eager to see how often u play vs this guy again..
Quote:
RESTARTS:
Player can take restart during first 3 own turns:
- if there is no road to second town on Balance template
- 1 restart with no reason
Players must always restart if starting hero is not Level 1 I ave never-ever restarted the map because I find it unequal...
Agreed. Only reason for restart is when you are blocked and can't move at all. Everything else is not needed imho.
Quote:
Conclusion: we WERE talking about differen things. You have used to create as equal conditions as possible and then play... I have used to play and give your best with the conditions given! I could bet real money, that you wont win me on completely random map when everything is allowed. In my opinion all the magic of HOMM3 is... that every town has its weaknesses and strengts, but they work only if everything is allowed and you can be attacked or attack in every possible way absolutely each turn..
.My bet goes into other direction. With (most) of the rules above, you prolly won't win 1 game out of 15 vs any above average online player. With a "non rule" game, you probably win 2 or 3 out of 15, coz the luck factor is very high. No offense meant, honestly. But you would wonder how different the game can be played.
If u can manage to get Gamespy going, I am always there to give you a game...be it non rule game or with some of the rules mentioned a bove. And I am just one of those slightly above average players. Don't even think about fighting the top ones..
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
|
|
alin1975
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted October 03, 2007 02:28 PM |
|
|
I read through the rules you guys play with. I am sure that they remove some of the random aspects and all that, but boy they look as though they take as much fun out of the game as possible.
I also begin to understand why magic heroes are always considered rubbish. With DD/ fly off, and with that odd rule about not being able to flee after inflicting damage it does take a bit off them (not that I have ever had to do the latter, but it has been done to me lol). In the old days I had a talk with this guy, also hardcore online player, on Ubi's H5 forum. In their games (wherever the heck he played) they disallowed the "disbalanced" magic heroes.
Odd that for a group that is considered to already be mainly useless one should handicap them more. In my games (which now tend to be WOG mainly for a breath of fresh air), I try to do the opposite and remove the Recanters Cloak and Orb of Inhibition. Oh well, not that it matter anyway, but just an observation.
Pity about the Conflux though. I really think its a nice ol' town, reminds me of the old Sorceress in H2.
____________
|
|
dohh
Hired Hero
|
|
posted October 03, 2007 02:52 PM |
|
|
Angelito: looking forward to... What do I need for online games besides gamespy?
I don't think I'm overestimating myself. I have played homm from the ages of heroes 2 and even heroes 1 with the same opponents. Getting strong and building up quickly - I'm skilled in this. Ok, maybe I have practised a bit too much against AI, but only on 120% + everybody allied against me. Versus human opponents I have mostly won. And my playing culture may be different, but it's because, I have used to play without any rules.
You say, it's all about luck element, I say it's opposingly - it's about neutralizing the luck element. Wins who does it better. Doesn't matter if you have Crag Hack with good skills, if I jump to you at unpleasant time and kill half of your army or your hero. Playing without rules, means you have to be prepared to almost everything, you cant play so agressively as by your rules. A very high concentration of luck will anyhow remain - morale and luck.
Ok... answer me please. On L map, without underground. How many weeks you expect one game to last? As an average?
|
|
dohh
Hired Hero
|
|
posted October 03, 2007 02:54 PM |
|
|
|
Oh... remembered one more huge difference, I always play with AI even against humans. I would probably develop more slowly, but my game would be more fool proof...
|
|
angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
|
|
posted October 03, 2007 04:07 PM |
|
Edited by angelito at 16:10, 03 Oct 2007.
|
I used to play vs the AI on 200% on any size of the map before I started playing online. It is very boring on bigger maps, coz u just have too much time to develop. Only challenge nowadays when in the mood for AI gaming is M map no under vs 7 allied comp players on 200%. But playing online vs human players was a completely new experience. You can't even compare.
A random map on L no under will be finished latest middle week 3 I would say. Probably week 2 if original 3DO random template.
For online playing you even wouldn't need Gamespy. You could play through TCP/IP. Gamespy is just the place to meet. If u have a router, u eitehr need to forward specific ports or u should play through hamachi.
Be sure u got the latest patch. You either need version 1.4, 3.2 or 4.0.
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
|
|
dohh
Hired Hero
|
|
posted October 04, 2007 06:57 AM |
|
|
Quote:
I used to play vs the AI on 200% on any size of the map
Of course, I play 200% too (means impossible), my mistake.
But you said three weeks? Random monsters set strong and zero ressourses for start? Really hard to believe... If so... you play better of course... or use some freaky templates. I don't imagine, how you can go for final fight on 3rd week. Takes me about 2 months...
|
|
liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
|
|
posted October 04, 2007 09:43 AM |
|
|
No, in multiplayer we usually start on 130% difficulty. This makes the game faster and in recent times nobody has too much spare time, so its better to speed up the games a bit.
Plus its more even, because both players have the chance of equal start. On 200% one may have 3 chrest of gold in his first turn and thus get 3 or 4 heroes day 1. The other may not be abble to buy second hero until day 3, so he will be miles behind the other.
|
|
dohh
Hired Hero
|
|
posted January 04, 2008 08:19 PM |
|
|
Ok, seems I have to change my statement a bit after couple of games:
Necro and conflux not allowed, so:
1. Castle
2. Stronghold
3. Dungeon
4. Rampart
5. Fortress
6. Tower
7. Inferno
depends very much on template too.
|
| |
|
|
