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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Strongest Town & Weakest Town in HOMM3
Thread: Strongest Town & Weakest Town in HOMM3 This thread is 34 pages long: 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 ... 20 30 34 · «PREV / NEXT»
ZombieBear
ZombieBear


Hired Hero
posted January 25, 2009 08:14 AM

All I see stated are things blatantly obvious. As an avid player I think it's worth mentioning the more meticulous details that I think would help to better balance the towns; all observations made from years of playing. (using current proper WoG settings with Enhanced Creatures and going from there) They are as follows.

Marksman - Must be set to Piercing Shot setting. Two shots makes Castle slightly overpowered in my view, considering their creatures are relatively cheap and hearty, and nobody messes around with Archangels.

Gremlins - Un-upgraded Gremlins need to also shoot. Master Gremlins should be able to resurrect 'mechanical' creatures. (Gargoyles, Golems, lost War Machines)

Gargoyles - need a little more Attack

Mages - Dwelling costs significantly reduced, no range penalty OR ELSE have offensive spellcasting

Genies - Dwelling costs significantly reduced, needs more Defense, as they are pitiful L5 units

Nagas - Dwelling cost somewhat increased (to somewhat close the gap from my Genie and Mage dwelling cost reductions)

Centaurs - champion distance bonus

Pegasi - No retaliation, attack & return. Cause let's face it; Pegasi are pretty, but they suck.

Unicorns - Should be ridden by more hot elves (merely a graphical improvement)

Skeletons - ALL attributes reduced (near to Pixie quality)

Necromancy - Should have the option of raising Zombies instead of skeletons (based on HP and in equal ratio of skeletons vs zombies, or else develop a system like HoMM5 or something)

Wraiths - Should be able to regenerate a little bit of lost numbers each turn

Vampires - +5 HP (a slight gap closer if skeletons were to be weakened)

Gogs - Magogs 'Fireball" shot should not affect friendly units. Or should just be transformed into Incubi and have a chain hit that also does not hurt or even pass through friendly units; retaliates if shot at.

Harpys - more ATK

Goblins - ALL stats need to be raised, gain some form of special ability

Wolf Riders - a little more Defense

Thunderbirds - need to not die so much in quick combat

Sprite - should be able to cast an offensive spell of some kind

All elementals - should have their automatic self-buffing spells always active respectively. (Haste, Magic Mirror, Fire Shield, etc)

Starbucks - should have their worldwide locations slightly reduced in number

That's not even all I've ever thought of, but these are to me the most pressing ones.

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted January 25, 2009 09:20 AM

The Library is NOT WoG related. WoG has its own subforum here, that's why your post doesn't fit too well to that topic..
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Totoro
Totoro


Famous Hero
in User
posted January 25, 2009 12:15 PM

Castle is undefeatable, everytime I've played a game with my buddies, castle has always been victorious if someone chose it, regardless who did.
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Casihasi
Casihasi


Known Hero
posted January 25, 2009 12:37 PM

Quote:

Casihasi,grands are best in any on or offline games.But as you get to final fight,take Stronghold as ex.You are mass slowed and grands die to birds in round 1 after they waited.Dragon flies  are great speed boosters,bad AI fighters.


Oh i know the strengths of Stronghold
But iam pretty sure that i rarely used mass slow and than hit grand elves with birds first round, thatīs fiction.
First of all, Rampart moves first and not stronghold.
2nd, if i play against Stronghold i always get Tactics myself, so there is no way Birds could reach Elves first round if slow is cast instead of haste =P

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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted January 25, 2009 03:19 PM

Quote:
Quote:
-Hallbardiers, Zealots a bit too weak,
I lold. Good job.


Weak => Weak Offencively

Fragile => Weak Defencively

FYI.

@ Nikita: Phoenixes are the weakest lvl 7, but growth compensates a LOT.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!

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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted January 25, 2009 03:30 PM


Quote:
Listing marksmen as a minus has to be close to blasphemie, are you aware that they are the only unit that can help for a fast week 1 with castle? ^^


because they are Fragile. The DIE often, and soon too. However, the first thing I do when I play castle is getting them! (and I often play as Valeska Too) I love the Marksmen, I've put them many times as the best lvl2... but 10 Hit Points is simply too low.

Same for Cerberi. I think they are great, but the die a bit too easy imo.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!

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SwampLord
SwampLord


Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
posted January 25, 2009 04:27 PM

I don't think I'd list Fortress as the worst, their units aren't nearly as bad as you dismiss them to be.

Gnoll is a slightly above-average level 1, nothing wrong here.
Lizard Warriors are an extremely tough Level 2 shooter-->good.
Dragon Flies are amazing-speedy, dispel beneficial effects, AND cast weakness!
Basilisks are your average level 4, average HP, average speed, stone gaze. A fairly solid unit.
Mighty Gorgons are Mighty Gorgons, 'nuff said.
Wyvern Monarchs are weak as anything but they can be had day TWO, which is a huge asset, and they can be powerstacked from hives.
Chaos Hydra is let down by its damage and ATK/DEF but its attack all with no retaliation ability makes it quite the force nonetheless.

Plus, they have Tazar, one of the best heroes in the game.
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They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!

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PrinceJasca
PrinceJasca


Hired Hero
posted January 25, 2009 05:07 PM

Weakest: Inferno.
Strongest: depends on map! Example in 8XM8 none can be better than Dungeon, but in Jebus Cross, if Conflux is banned (so Conflux is the best), Castle will be the best. In some maps Necropolis is very powerful.

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Casihasi
Casihasi


Known Hero
posted January 25, 2009 05:16 PM

Quote:

I love the Marksmen, I've put them many times as the best lvl2... but 10 Hit Points is simply too low.

Same for Cerberi. I think they are great, but the die a bit too easy imo.


More than 10 hps would make them overpowered, castle is strong enough as it is
And cerberi donīt have less hps than most L3, except golems.

To the many people who list Fortress and Inferno as weakest, i can only suggest to play more with them and learn their strenghts.
Specially Fortress, donīt you like dragon fly hives on randoms?
Or taking out L7 with cows, or fighting strong guards with Hydras without losses? Magic guilds can be built in secondary towns, its not an advantage if you have to build it in your home city anyway imo.

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Nikita
Nikita


Famous Hero
Meepo is underrated
posted January 25, 2009 06:19 PM

Quote:
Quote:

Casihasi,grands are best in any on or offline games.But as you get to final fight,take Stronghold as ex.You are mass slowed and grands die to birds in round 1 after they waited.Dragon flies  are great speed boosters,bad AI fighters.


Oh i know the strengths of Stronghold
But iam pretty sure that i rarely used mass slow and than hit grand elves with birds first round, thatīs fiction.
First of all, Rampart moves first and not stronghold.
2nd, if i play against Stronghold i always get Tactics myself, so there is no way Birds could reach Elves first round if slow is cast instead of haste =P


I was talking about for ex: balance,your power is grands with them and little cents you do extreme dmg and it isnt rich template so u cant build,upgrade and buy all creatures so most of my games end up me having grands,cents few unis and (angels if cons present)enemy has Behs week 1,wolfs and upgraded birds so all he needs to do is kill my grands at any cost because they kill anyone in straight arrow(Ivor main).If he has tactics he slow,waits and kills.If not then haste might be better.Even if you go first you take defenseive stance there isnt much you can do.
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I havent lost my mind... I have it backed up somewhere 8-)

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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted January 25, 2009 06:26 PM

Quote:

To the many people who list Fortress and Inferno as weakest, i can only suggest to play more with them and learn their strenghts.
Specially Fortress, donīt you like dragon fly hives on randoms?
Or taking out L7 with cows, or fighting strong guards with Hydras without losses? Magic guilds can be built in secondary towns, its not an advantage if you have to build it in your home city anyway imo.


Personally, Fortress is the town I like the most actually. but imo it lacks strong heroes (the number of them that is Tazar, Bron and Alkin are good), especially good witches), Magic Potential (Lvl 3 Mage Guild wtf) and tough(they are strong and fast enough) flyers (Wyverns and Flies are strong but they tend to... well, die)

There is no weak town in Heroes 3 imo, each town (except Conflux) is quite evenly matched, but in one-vs-one, the Fortress's units are the weakest. (Overall, Gorgons rock, and Hydras and Lizardmen are good))
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!

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Casihasi
Casihasi


Known Hero
posted January 25, 2009 06:37 PM

Fortress units are underestimated very often, but take a closer look.
Gorgons are obvious and mentioned as the only strenght by many, but there is more...

Greater Basilisks: decent speed for L4, and a nice special (you have to love if they stone a strong enemy unit).

Wyverns: yep they die easy, but the numbers often make up for that.
Speed 11 upgraded is also very decent. One single hive can give you double the amount of L6 that your opponent has, if you meet early.

Hydras: slow, but speed does not always decide battles if you cannot crush your opponent fast. Are you afraid of Hydras if 3 of your units stand close to each other, for what reason ever?
And take a look at what they can do vs. the map for you, the AI can be fooled with no retaliation/multiple attack, and if you haste/bless them they can be pretty good.

Gnolls: their weakness is the rather low numbers you tend to get day 1, but they deal more damage with 1 blow than most L1 units. They have their use.

Flys: GREAT blocker vs shooters on the map.
Great unit to give to scouts, your secondary heroes will be faster than with any other town early. Can be a nice advantage to uncover the map and collect stuff.


Overall, i think people struggle with the unit speed of fortress when being unexperienced. Build the flies day 1, make your main hero fast by taking of everything except 1 fly at the end of each day, and rock with your scouts - you will soon have a different picture of fortress.

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Nikita
Nikita


Famous Hero
Meepo is underrated
posted January 25, 2009 06:54 PM

I would like to add that when ever you fight with Hydras place your other units close to Hydra so if enemy hits one of your units then your hydra is safe,because if enemy will attack them they will retaliate to 2 or 3 of enemy units and so will they do at their turn.
And what sucks for Wyverns is if you get hives then you cant upgrade your wyvs to monorachs.
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I havent lost my mind... I have it backed up somewhere 8-)

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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted January 25, 2009 07:09 PM

Quote:
And what sucks for Wyverns is if you get hives then you cant upgrade your wyvs to monorachs.


Then simply post-pone the upgrading untill you've visited all the Hives that is.

However, not all maps have Dragon Fly hives tho


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Coincidence? I think not!!!!

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted January 25, 2009 07:27 PM

Quote:

And what sucks for Wyverns is if you get hives then you cant upgrade your wyvs to monorachs.


I beat you are the player who will never fight with angels before he can upgrade them, isn't it?

Health 70 (!), speed 7, 14-18 damage, if you find a few hives early game, then you will have a formidable force. Maybe they will be even more effective than the few level 7 you built by spending so many resources.

Off topic, the monarchs are great on Unleashing the Bloodthirsty map, as when you cast berserk on your own monarchs, they will poison your units and you will have to ressurect much less times. That map destroyed me 2 mouses.
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Era II mods and utilities

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Nikita
Nikita


Famous Hero
Meepo is underrated
posted January 25, 2009 07:45 PM

LOL,PLs reread what i wrote thats not what i meant,there is a rule that you cannot upgrade wyverns that you got from hives that would be uber overpowered.
Quote:
beat you are the player who will never fight with angels before he can upgrade them, isn't it?


So you are saying tht i will not use angels til like week3-4?,no i buy 3 of them week 2 day1(if Jebus)
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I havent lost my mind... I have it backed up somewhere 8-)

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Casihasi
Casihasi


Known Hero
posted January 25, 2009 08:12 PM

and templates like Jebus are the reason, why peeps can only play 1 way and think everything else suxx =P

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DeadMan
DeadMan


Known Hero
The True Humanitarian
posted January 26, 2009 04:00 PM

There is absolutely no doubt that the best town is Dungeon. It has Jeddite with his hypnotize spell - the best spell in the game! It can take over entire stacks of enemy creatures. Plus, Dungeon has the awesome Harpy Hags and Minotaur Kings.
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I don't matter. You don't matter. But we matter.

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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted January 26, 2009 04:18 PM

Quote:
It has Jeddite with his hypnotize spell - the best spell in the game!


Uuuuh Whaaat? Don't you mean ressurrection?

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Coincidence? I think not!!!!

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Alamar
Alamar

Tavern Dweller
posted January 26, 2009 05:16 PM

I think that the armies from towns can be noted in points for each level creatures (points from 0 (weakest monster of this level) to 8 (the strongest one)). For me:

Level 1:
Halbardier     7
Capt.Centaur   8
MasterGremlin  4
Familiar       0
SkeletonWar.   6
Inf.Troglodyte 3
Hobgoblin      1
GnollMar.      5
Sprite         2

Level 2:
Marksman  5
B.Dwarf   3
Obs.Garg. 2
Magog     7
Zombie    0
HarpyHag  6
WolfRaid. 4
Liz.War.  1
AirElem.  8

Level 3:
R.Griffin  3
GrandElf   6
IronGolem  2
Cerberus   5
Wraith     1
EvilEye    4
OrcChief.  0
Dragonfly  7
WaterElem. 8

Level 4:
Crusader  7
S.Pegasus 2
Archmage  3
H.Demon   0
Vamp.Lord 8
Med.Queen 1
OgreMage  4
G.Basil.  5
FireElem. 6

Level 5:
Zealot     1
Dend.Sold. 4
M.Genie    2
PitLord    5
PowerLich  6
Min.King   3
Thunderb.  7
M.Gorgon   8
EarthElem. 0

Level 6:
Champion    6
W.Unicorn   3
NagaQueen   7
EfreetSul.  4
DreadKn.    8
Scorpicore  1
Cycl.King   5
Wyv.Monarch 0
MagicElem.  2

Level 7:
Archangel  7
GoldDrag.  4
Titan      3
Archdevil  2
GhostDrag. 0
BlackDrag. 8
Anc.Behem. 6
ChaosHydra 1
Phoenix    5

Summing up:
Castle=7+5+3+7+1+6+7= 36 points
Rampart=8+3+6+2+4+3+4= 30 points
Tower=4+2+2+3+2+7+3= 23 points
Inferno=0+7+5+0+5+4+2= 23 points
Necropolis=6+0+1+8+6+8+0= 29 points
Dungeon=3+6+4+1+3+1+8= 26 points
Stronghold=1+4+0+4+7+5+6= 27 points
Fortress=5+1+7+5+8+0+1= 27 points
Conflux=2+8+8+6+0+2+5= 31 points

After all: Castle has the best army and Tower and Inferno have the worst, but of course not only the army makes the faction powerful. Adding magic, heroes specialities, growth of this creatures etc for me:

9th place: Inferno
8th: Stronghold
7th: Tower
6th: Fortress
5th: Necropolis
4th: Rampart

3rd: Dungeon
2nd: Castle

and the winner is... CONFLUX!!!

That's not a joke! If someone thinks that Conflux sucks, let's play SoD, Conflux vs any other faction and you will see.
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