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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted December 12, 2004 06:45 AM |
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I am not talking about other people but to the person directly.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted December 12, 2004 08:57 AM |
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I think the matter is resolved now. I think all parties have a point. SS does speak excessively harsh at times and borderlines the COC, provoking the moderators. The moderators did react to the fact that SS made the post, not only the content of the post itself. We all make mistakes and we must admit them to move on and improve. I think what was missing is listening. SS didn't listen about the impact of his remark and the moderators initially didn't listen about the hastiness of their decision.
From reading this thread and HQ I can see that the listening took place, just a bit late and after quite a bit of aggrevation. I think it's a top priority of moderators to listen to members. Listening does not mean agreeing, but hearing out the reasoning and responding to it constructively.
As I said I think this has occured now. If at any time in the future anyone feels that it doesn't, use the e-mail option and tell me about it. I have the privellege of not having to deal with being in the front line of the forum clearning. If I had been doing that, perhaps I'd also be a lot more aggrevated and impulsive. So not like SS does not have a big part to play in being reacted to this way.
This is something I feel you, SS, have not yet listened to / considered. You can make claims of favouritism, but moderators, as well as members do have a very strong point about you being harsh and provoking people. You can retain your valuable honesty and sense of humour and yet cease from punching people in the face with it. You express honesty and humour bluntly and lack gracefulness in your expression.
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You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted December 12, 2004 10:51 AM |
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A point yea after some modding discipline in the Mod Squad lol.
Thats the only reason why it got resolved,
FAVORTISM FAVORTISM 
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted December 12, 2004 11:14 AM |
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Edited By: Djive on 12 Dec 2004
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In reply to Peacemaker's post on losing IMs:
Did you install Security Pack 2 on Windows Pro? (I think this by default blocks the IMs from HC.)
Or install security software with a firewall?
I've also noticed that some security upgrades changed my computer's behaviour for pop-ups. (which the IM window is).
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted December 12, 2004 02:46 PM |
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Another offtopic in regards to IM's:
IYY recently posted that he had the exact same situation recently, and just recieved a bunch of IM's all at once as well.
He was also unsure as to why
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted December 12, 2004 04:36 PM |
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@ val
Quote:
This is something I feel you, SS, have not yet listened to / considered. You can make claims of favouritism, but moderators, as well as members do have a very strong point about you being harsh and provoking people. You can retain your valuable honesty and sense of humour and yet cease from punching people in the face with it. You express honesty and humour bluntly and lack gracefulness in your expression.
Well provoking does also involve percieving a message or/and a text.
I do hope you understand what SS used to be. Earlier ive raised this issue many times as moderators used it and i wanted no resemblance whatsoever with something like the SS.
What happend? nothing.
But instead of commenting this each and every time i just leaved it to slide. But do i still like being called SS? no.
See.. provoking and insulting can be easier done then you might think.
As for your point.. yes i can be very harsh with words. Both when it comes to critism and jokes.
As for the critism part, ive learned that if you wanna change something you have to do it that way as the "system" is. Otherwise the moderators its directed too doesnt seem to care or say "ok" and then dont bother or simply reward or say its a great thing and then still dont care.
And as i rather the see the msg board getting improved even if it has to include critism and me taking some fire aswell id rather see that then getting a bonus and nothings gets done.
As for the jokes.. sure. Sometimes i can understand they come across as quite harsh. And as much as its never my intention to hurt anyone with these jokes id try and be more careful who i direct em to in the future.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted December 12, 2004 06:17 PM |
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Edited By: Consis on 12 Dec 2004
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Oh My Gawd.......
Surely you must be joking again. Criticizing Valeriy for abbreviating your online identification, how utterly petty. It seems if you find nothing else, you'll resort to grammar corrections. Ugh.......
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted December 12, 2004 06:30 PM |
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Actually, Consis, that would be my job 
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Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted December 12, 2004 07:34 PM |
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Quote:
Surely you must be joking again. Criticizing Valeriy for abbreviating your online identification, how utterly petty. It seems if you find nothing else, you'll resort to grammar corrections. Ugh.......
no no no...
you got that one all wrong.
I know that val off course didnt mean any harm by calling me SS.
My point was than an insult or a provocation can easy be interpeted if thats what you wanna see aswell.
Ive talked enough to val to say i know that we can have a steady and honest dialogue. So i wanted to show that there is another side of the coin aswell.
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted December 12, 2004 08:49 PM |
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Yes, I did not intend a putdown or an abbreviated analogy by using "SS", I used it as shorthand for your username. I won't use it in the future.
It's a good point because I've had no thought that it can be percieved this way. Using this as a model scenario, however, I could blame you entirely for percieving it this way, or I could take my part of responsibility to correct it, such as removing the offending material (which in this case you didn't take personally, so I don't see a need to remove it).
With the post that recieved and then lost the penality, I think much aggrevation could be avoided if you adjusted the post as soon as Peacemaker let you know that she is offended by your joke. If your intention was genuinely not to offend, you would have changed the joke.
I also think you have a point about the lack of listening provoking harshness. I think it works both ways - harshness provokes lack of listening and lack of listening provokes harshness, mentioned in no particular order. I think it's a closed cycle, and both parties involved are in their way responsible for keeping the cycle going. Both sides must take their share of responsibility to restore good communication.
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You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted December 12, 2004 09:38 PM |
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Quote:
Yes, I did not intend a putdown or an abbreviated analogy by using "SS", I used it as shorthand for your username. I won't use it in the future.
as alrdy stated i know that, and feel free to call me Stefan or Stiven in the future.
Quote:
It's a good point because I've had no thought that it can be percieved this way. Using this as a model scenario, however, I could blame you entirely for percieving it this way, or I could take my part of responsibility to correct it, such as removing the offending material (which in this case you didn't take personally, so I don't see a need to remove it).
Yes you could blame me entirely for its just me percieving it this way, on the other hand.. using the other side of the same model scenario i could blame you entirely for not realising that i could interpet it like this.
As stated, there are two sides to it.
Quote:
With the post that recieved and then lost the penality, I think much aggrevation could be avoided if you adjusted the post as soon as Peacemaker let you know that she is offended by your joke. If your intention was genuinely not to offend, you would have changed the joke.
Well if i would have changed it it wouldnt have made any sense, and judging on the way things has worked out i never think that was issue either. This just a theory now but as PM seems ok with the post now it must have been percieved as bad in the start because of bad communication between the two of us. Maybe she thought of it as an insult at that time but hopefully she did realise that my intention never was to hurt. It was just to crack a laugh, and if she feels she wants to do it the same on my expense some time.. ill try to live with it 
Quote:
I also think you have a point about the lack of listening provoking harshness. I think it works both ways - harshness provokes lack of listening and lack of listening provokes harshness, mentioned in no particular order. I think it's a closed cycle, and both parties involved are in their way responsible for keeping the cycle going. Both sides must take their share of responsibility to restore good communication.
Here i can use this as an example though, i first brought this up as can be viewed in tribunal in a red star thread made by RSF. First post was very politically correct.. no provoking, no pointing fingers etc. heck for me id say it was unbelievibly politically correct hehe. But the lack of engagement and willingness to improve was IMO to big so after trying to persuade that this was indeed an issue for a while and after awhile got more personal with my replies i decided to completely give this is a rest.
Really, whats the point in trying to improve something that most agrees needs improvement, even the mods themselves but yet nothing is done about it?
So i gave it a rest, and then came this penalty to me as the perfect example of just these subjective QP:s so it worked at a catalyst.
And now after all these hard words i think the very message of subjective QP's has more than commen across and from what ive heard there are improvements on the way.
So to use your cycle, if my non provoking first post had been correctly dealt with there wouldnt even have been this fight about my penalty. So as much as i understand that some of my new ideas can be seen as provocative every now and then, in this example i do think they were not to start.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted December 13, 2004 02:04 AM |
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Edited By: Svarog on 14 Dec 2004
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Quote:
The facts overwhelmingly contradicted the joke but it remains tasteless toilet humor.
Well, thats entirely subjective consis. Although the first post maybe was near the toilet, the second one ("You're correct.") really made me laugh.
Now, are we to IM the person we intend to put in a joke, before we post it, and ask if he'd feel offended by it? Are we to penalize a joke only if the "joke victim" thinks its offending? But in such cases, both should work it out and explain that/if theres no offense intention imo. In the end, if your jokes are percieved as tasteless by others, it only influences the way people (not only the one to whom the joke was directed, but all others who read) see you and how they feel about you. The joker is the one who loses. (cause batman is the man  )
Though I believe, a tasteless joke is only a not funny one. Humour should know nothing of morality.
edit: actually i should correct myself. exeption are cases where a seriously meant offense is masked by a joke, but whats rotting is the offense itself, not the funniness of the joke.
edit 2: 0.2 l.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted December 13, 2004 03:17 PM |
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dare one ask about how much alcohol influence you were under writing that post svarog?
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted December 21, 2004 02:37 AM |
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I'll use this thread as a public IM system, because i there's bin troubles with them recently.
Peacemaker, I did get that last IM you sent me, and I replied (twice), but i think u didnt get them. Try the IM window, or logging in properly, cause that was the longest IM i've ever sent (u too) and dont want it to go to waste. ))) plus, somewhat important thing we discussed.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted December 22, 2004 04:04 PM |
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I Guess I'll Post It Here
This seems as good a place as any to explain my Lady_Milena attacks. I'll come right out and say it. I'm jealous and annoyed. I personally don't think it's fair the way she doesn't participate in a debate at all, but then pops in after not participating with some highly personalized viewpoint and then historically gets rewarded for it by Valeriy.
My whole rant/tangent about me hating right-wing christian conservatives had nothing to do with Lady_Milena. I know she isn't like that. That was simply me venting about some personal issues in the wrong way. The way I posted it made it seem like I was talking to her. But I wasn't so I apologize to Lady_Milena for doing that.
But back to the way I feel personally. I personally don't think it's fair for someone to not follow all the equally important opinions that everyone else has spent a lot of time and thought typing up. In fact, I'd probably only be slightly annoyed if she didn't normally receive an award for it. But no, I feel she ignores other peoples time and effort and gets rewarded for it.
I'm here every day looking for ways to improve upon this community. I spend a great deal of time listening to the other people who post here. I think that's important. When I make a thread, I can't think of any time that I simply create the first post and leave. I participate by listening and responding to the other people who are interested in it. That's important to me because that's my way of showing people that I care about what they are saying. It shows that I am not better or worse. I am an equal human being. My words are exactly as profound as anyone else's. Talking without listening does one thing in my eyes. It says you don't care what other people think and only your opinion matters. That's what I disagree with. I disagree with popping in, ignoring what everyone else has said, stating your personal opinion, leaving, and gaining a quality point for it.
This is, of course, all my singular opinion. I guess it's only me because everyone else defends her with loyalty. If I'm wrong then so be it. I'm a little afraid for posting this because no one agrees with me but hey if I get penalized then so be it. I'm not attacking Lady_Milena's person, only her posting habits.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted December 23, 2004 02:10 AM |
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Edited By: Svarog on 22 Dec 2004
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Yeah, that man's got a point.
I think we should set daily quotas for HC attendence and whenever a member doesnt fulfil his 3-4 posts per day quota, he'll get penalized. Simple as that.
Think about it, if we have daily quotas, people will have to post each day, and because they wouldnt know what else to say, they'll have to respond to earlier posts. No more insolent members trying to post personal opinions once in a while without responding to what everyone else said.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted December 23, 2004 04:05 AM |
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It dont matter Consis,just be yourself.
People dont think you are improving the community, then F them & you dont have to change for no one.
Being a family man you should know that you shouldnt be somethang your not.
Look at me.....
I am myself,Look how many praises I get from these HC members.
I get no respect rarely,hardly any QP.
Who cares I will say what I feel & if it improves the Community then thats great.
If it dont think thats cool too.
Basically you dont have to be somethang or push yourself over the limit just to impress everyone.
I dont really care if a person respects me or not I wont change.
Even tho I did hange.
Milena got many QP in the past & I believe she knows what shes talking about in that thread.
Dont trip on little stuff like this, if you feel your improving the community then thats what counts, not what others think.
Nothing to be jealous about, she shared her wisdom, thats it, you should apreciate it not get dopwn in her for it.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted December 23, 2004 06:32 AM |
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Well..
It's hard for me to simply be without guidelines and rules. I can't remember ever having lived without such a structure. It's my way to try and impress people with good intentions. But that's no secret. And neither is it a secret that I commonly stumble over myself in the process. i.e. I make myself look foolish sometimes. Ah well, what else to say, not much I guess.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted December 23, 2004 07:27 AM |
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Why do you feel you have to impress people.
If people dont find you impressive, then why would you go over the limit,
You expect too much from people buddy.
This world you start to realise thats not worth trying to gain peoples respect & trying to impress people, just do the best you can & live life, just do it.
Share your wisdom with us, I like to hear other peoples experience.
Dont try to impress no one. Not really worth the effort.
If you impress someone by being you then thats great.
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Valeriy
Mage of the Land
Naughty, Naughty Valeriy
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posted December 25, 2004 09:36 PM |
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Out of the QPs Lady_Milena has, I think those posts are QP worthy. Please point out the ones that you think aren't and we can review them.
If posts deserving QPs aren't the issue, if the issue is the poster, are you suggesting I should act out of favouritism and not give QPs to posts that deserve them?
If the issue is the lack of QPs to the deserving posts of other posters, please suggest those posts to me or the moderators of appropriate forum for bonus review.
Also, as far as I'm aware, Lady_Milena is Milena's new account. Milena has been here for a long time and made lots of posts.
____________
You can wait for others to do it, but if they don't know how, you'll wait forever.
Be an example of what you want to see on HC and in the world.
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com
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