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| Thread: poll: Should we believe in God or no? (inspired by french mathematician Pascal) |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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aerial
Adventuring Hero
Creator of nightmares
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posted August 16, 2001 02:59 PM |
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Evolution
Ever heard of evolution OZZY.
No well let me tell you about it.
A long time ago the world was dark and hot and electric storms raged over it.
then it started to cool of and with the help of lightning certain chemicals started to react with eachother and became single cell life.
now these single cells evolved into multiple cell organisms
and eventually into dinosaurs(reptiles) and mammels.
when the dinosaurs died some small mammals and reptiels survived and evolved into humans. OK!!!!!!!!
So please cut the GOD crap 'couse it makes me SICK!!!!
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Coldfyrius
Promising
Famous Hero
Vice-God for Marketing
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posted August 16, 2001 03:05 PM |
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Can anybody here provide EVIDENCE for the existence of God? If not, then there's no reason to think that He exists, and if that's true, then religion is a big fat stinking waste of time, energy, and lives.
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"All the punks are gonna scream, 'yippee!'/ 'Cuz it's the thing that only eats hippies."
-The Dead Milkmen
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted August 16, 2001 04:45 PM |
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Quote:
Shred of evidence of God…well there again you show yourself to be uninformed as there is tons of “evidence” (contextual criticism, personal experience/changed lives, philosophical arguments, etc.) I could list all the “evidence” but that would get exhausting for everyone.
And as for proof of God...I challenge you to ever prove that he doesn’t exist...in fact it is impossible to do.
Evolution…there are so many holes in that theory that it is like Swiss cheese. If evolution did occur...which it might of (I have not made up my mind about theocentric evolution...where did the first atom or substance come from.??? To prove evolution, to really prove it, you would have to witness it from the beginning of time...so since no one can prove it to that extent then it remains a theory.
Hmmm... So what you're saying is that proponents of Evolution must go back in time to prove their theory, but Creationists are right until proven wrong? Sounds a bit loaded to me.
Seriously, though, you are correct in stating that Evolution is "only" a theory. So is the theory of gravity. It's interesting that people seem to think that because it is termed the "theory" of evolution, it was just something that Darwin came up with while he was bored in between islands. Personally, I think that evolution is the most logical explanation for our existence, but admit that it is quite possible that it is wrong. For all I really know, I came into existence 3 seconds ago, with all of my memories already created, me sitting in front of a computer with part of a post already written. I would like to know specifically which "holes" in the theory of evolution you refer to.
I love how in-your-face people get about beginning of the universe theories. The two main arguments normally presented are:
"First there was nothing, which exploded" and
"Everything must have a cause, therefore there must have been a God to cause it." "So what caused God?" "Shut up."
Both sides then tend to quickly fall into "Oh yeah, prove it!" followed by "Well prove that I'm wrong!" until finally it gets to "Well, you weren't there at the beginning of time, so you can't prove yourself right, therefore, by default, my option is the one that is correct." And so forth.
(For the record, I once again think that it is more likely that nothing exploded, but hey, we all have our superstitions)
Oh, one more thing, somebody said that if there is no afterlife, there is no point in living. I'd argue that there being no afterlife makes living even more important. After all, if you only get maybe 75 years if you're lucky, you've got to make sure you cling to those years. If there's an afterlife, those 75 years are just a drop in the bucket, and you can spend them eating ho-hos and watching I Love Lucy re-runs.
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Sha_Men
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
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posted August 16, 2001 04:59 PM |
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Bort...
Very good post there. I myself don't want to go under water into deep philosophical discussion...
But I want to ask you because I didn't find did you say in which do you believe. (I'm not only meaning God but in overall.)
I think this is pretty essential question to human being...
So into which do you believe?
Are you sceptic to the end?
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Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.
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ironmlh
Known Hero
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posted August 16, 2001 05:02 PM |
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OK this is truly my last comment
Yes, i agree with many of you who said this post is offensive. It is offensive to me that people feel the need to post religious threads in a forum such as this. We all have a different definition for what is offensive and what is'nt.
I find the entire religous thing very offensive. Many of you find my posts offensive, but you offend me by even talking about religion. So if i offend your precious ego, too bad.
Yes, this is a public forum..... but then i am merely letting all of you know how i feel,
I know i could have choose to read thread or not. But when it is posted in Heroes forum, it is truly out of place.
Debating this issue is a moot point. We can go on for hours on end and still be at the same point we are now.
You choose to believe in God, i just choose not too. Actually it wasn't even a choice, I dont need to choose to `believe' in things that aren't (proven to exist).
Isn't the burden of proof the responsibility of the one saying its true. And dont all of you start saying there is proof! Throughout history there is not one shred of scientific proof in existance.
But right now i have much more important things to concentrate on, like the upcoming Pro Football season.
SO cya all around.
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ozzyosbourne
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
Riddler of the Sky
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posted August 16, 2001 06:05 PM |
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Alright i think this thread is definitly getting offensive, i wont post in here anymore.. and as for Aerial.. i'll go over there and KICK YOU ASS just to teach you a lesson...
Later and Peace to you all..
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Life is like a carousel. Spinning fast you got to ride them well. The only time you speak is in your dreams.
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Viper
Known Hero
Lord of Black Magic
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posted August 16, 2001 06:31 PM |
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Well religion discussion just CANT be peaceful cos people who belive in God will never agree with the arguments of people who dont. So there is nothing we can do about it.
PS If differnt religion confesions cant stand each other so what did you expect?
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You always can stop process if you know it's real name. (Kerrigan)
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arachnid
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 16, 2001 06:38 PM |
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Id really like to know whats offending people i really would so please everyone thats "deeply offended by this thread" explain why!
What is so wrong with discussing the bigger picture and having a few arguements about it?, who cares its in a heroes site i mean god theres enough different types of threads not about heroes already.
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Coldfyrius
Promising
Famous Hero
Vice-God for Marketing
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posted August 16, 2001 09:16 PM |
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Look, anything you say about religion will offend somebody.For example, the Nietzsche quote I use as a sig.
So back to religion: Anybody have evidence of God yet? I'm a very patient person when it doesn't involve standing.
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"All the punks are gonna scream, 'yippee!'/ 'Cuz it's the thing that only eats hippies."
-The Dead Milkmen
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Incubus
Disgraceful
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 16, 2001 10:36 PM |
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God means war
Stupid people believe.. And people who are Believing in god CRAP make war.. because those have alla and those have god.. What a crap! The world is just the world.. why there are no miracles anymore.. like many ages back? When god always showed himself? God is just like the minotaur myths.. made up by man... If you believe you don't believe in yourself.. and god isn't your father.. your father is the man who made you.... The earth was not created by a god.. why he would make Saturnes and uranus? and all those other planets? That is just bullsnow! The earth and all other planets are part of a sun.. So i think the people mean sun instead of God!
And dinosaur bones were found.. no trails of god so far.. only stupid Fairytales in books.. Sorry but it's total crap.. You all can hate me for this.. but i just can't believe the ones who believe in god.. many over here don't believe... and i don't play and talk to people who do believe.. they have a negative infuense toward me... i don't like them sorry.....
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted August 16, 2001 10:51 PM |
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Oh great, so now Sha pins me down and asks the question point blank. I had actually been avoiding saying, but here goes...
Do I believe that there is some entity more powerful/more morally pure than humans? I think it's unlikely that humans are the best that the entire universe has to offer. I'm sure somewhere out there there's some alien race that might seem God-like to us. (after all, technology that is sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic - forget who said that). On the other hand, there's probably quite a few who we could whip forty ways from friday.
Do I believe in a spirit world of some sort? No. It's generally offered as an explanation to the inexplicable, and I think there's probably always an explanation if we were smart enough and dedicated enough to actually look for one. It'd be nice if there was one, but I don't think it's necessary.
Now the biggy - do I believe in the existence of an omnipotent, omniscient, all good God? No. I think that the universe as it exists is inconsistent with the presence of such a being. If God is all good, why is there suffering? The standard argument of "there cannot be happiness without suffering" only works if the being in question has limited power. If God is truly all powerful, he/she/it cannot be subject to such limits as "no happiness without suffering" since, by definition, such a God would make the rules. A truly omnipotent deity could, quite easily, eliminate suffering without eliminating happiness. So, for God to be all-good, God must not be all-powerful.
The other argument is normally along the lines of "God works in mysterious ways." To accept this one, you'd have to lose the idea of an all-good God. That's something of a terrifying prospect. Simply put, I think that "good," among other things, includes 1. preventing suffering as long as it doesn't cause more suffering elsewhere 2. try to increase happiness, as long as you don't have to cause suffering to do so (so no, I am not a utilitarian) 3. don't cause suffering if it is in your power not to. God working in "mysterious ways" would violate all three of these, if he/she/it were truly omnipotent.
There. I said it. Oh man am I going to be flamed.
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malkia
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 16, 2001 11:03 PM |
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The poll was whether, after reading Pascal Wager, you seemed afraid of
not believing in god or not. As it's said - iron words can open iron
portals. This wager (even now i feeled it stupid little bit and naive)
was like little hammer to me - when I read it.
Human always need to be insured - especially these days. See America
- you are getting Advertisments&Commercial on TV's saying that this
product or that medicine will save your LIFE, that this investment
or this or that will increase your wealth and fortune. People instinctly
believe in this - once they understood the big "truth" about all these
medicines, investment plans or whatever - they no more believe in it.
What amazes me - is that there are still people (lots of them!!) who
deeply believe in GOD. GOD is for me the first ADVERTISEMENT ever
created. People started talkin' about it - the thing is still everybody
knows only the advertisment - but not the product. Once you taste
the product - you can understand. The thing is - is there any product
at all?
I was watchin days ago on TV - they were displaying some man dying of
cancer - yes bad thing to happen - what make me sick is that they were
using TV to show man dying and they know that people gonna feel sorry
for him. But here is the thing - people get sorry about certain things
not because they really feel sorry - but because they are being afraid
for themselves - so keeping sorry for one - is like take insurance for
you. On the other side - after watchin' this - 10 or 15 minutes after
it - you can see AD showing some snowin' product which will save you
from CANCER. What is bible, then? But then, why nobody wants money -
once you started being religous - or they want it? I know if you are
catholic you can pay for your sins. Then it comes - yes - yes - actually
there are too much money in all this religious thing - VATICAN for
example - who support them?
Another thing - BIBLE, and AD's on TV's are like manipulation over
the people - they make people to think one and same way - religious
makes them thing the same way. As it can be seen - Hollywood is becoming
a religion - they are making films by one and same way - putting
actors to do things, which you can't do in real life - even the simple
jokes - which if you try at home - will not work - but at movie they
"work". We are making cult to these things, but it was said in bible
that you should not make CULT to anythin... Because you are already
making one to GOD... so GOD now is the monopoly... Once you make
all the people believe in one and same thing - then you can control
them better... Good point for strategy games 
I'm by passport orthodox (at least people from Balkans are more of
them orthodox christians). At the same time we were communists -
time ago - and bible&religion was not very appopriate study for
us. So I'm not an expert - I've started digging into it - some
months ago - still very unexpert. I was always thinking of it
like something not so important, but when I came to USA - and
watched the RELIGIOUS CHANNEL here - i was amazed. PEOPLE ARE
REALLY BELIEVING.... I've seen how one of the pastors was explaining
the word HUMAN - it was from HU...(something) and MAN (mana)
HU is from some greek word - DIRT/SOIL and MAN - from MANA -
magic. So he said somethin like that GOD put HU...(can't remmember
the whole word) into MANA - and made HUMAN. This of course sound
to me - as word play... Greek was made many years after people
start believing in THE ONLY ONE GOD.
sorry for any who feel offended by posting this thread,
the same way i can feel offended because of that. There is freedom
of speech - ONLY FANATICS feel offended - people who really believe
will come with TRUE WORDS and say that to non-believers.
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Incubus
Disgraceful
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 16, 2001 11:05 PM |
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Uhm
Are there some people over here who believe in going to heaven or hell? whahahahah sorry can't hold my laugh! Even if i have the chance! I will choose hell.. i don't like boring heaven! LOL!
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malkia
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 16, 2001 11:05 PM |
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The poll was whether, after reading Pascal Wager, you seemed afraid of
not believing in god or not. As it's said - iron words can open iron
portals. This wager (even now i feeled it stupid little bit and naive)
was like little hammer to me - when I read it.
Human always need to be insured - especially these days. See America
- you are getting Advertisments&Commercial on TV's saying that this
product or that medicine will save your LIFE, that this investment
or this or that will increase your wealth and fortune. People instinctly
believe in this - once they understood the big "truth" about all these
medicines, investment plans or whatever - they no more believe in it.
What amazes me - is that there are still people (lots of them!!) who
deeply believe in GOD. GOD is for me the first ADVERTISEMENT ever
created. People started talkin' about it - the thing is still everybody
knows only the advertisment - but not the product. Once you taste
the product - you can understand. The thing is - is there any product
at all?
I was watchin days ago on TV - they were displaying some man dying of
cancer - yes bad thing to happen - what make me sick is that they were
using TV to show man dying and they know that people gonna feel sorry
for him. But here is the thing - people get sorry about certain things
not because they really feel sorry - but because they are being afraid
for themselves - so keeping sorry for one - is like take insurance for
you. On the other side - after watchin' this - 10 or 15 minutes after
it - you can see AD showing some snowin' product which will save you
from CANCER. What is bible, then? But then, why nobody wants money -
once you started being religous - or they want it? I know if you are
catholic you can pay for your sins. Then it comes - yes - yes - actually
there are too much money in all this religious thing - VATICAN for
example - who support them?
Another thing - BIBLE, and AD's on TV's are like manipulation over
the people - they make people to think one and same way - religious
makes them thing the same way. As it can be seen - Hollywood is becoming
a religion - they are making films by one and same way - putting
actors to do things, which you can't do in real life - even the simple
jokes - which if you try at home - will not work - but at movie they
"work". We are making cult to these things, but it was said in bible
that you should not make CULT to anythin... Because you are already
making one to GOD... so GOD now is the monopoly... Once you make
all the people believe in one and same thing - then you can control
them better... Good point for strategy games
I'm by passport orthodox (at least people from Balkans are more of
them orthodox christians). At the same time we were communists -
time ago - and bible&religion was not very appopriate study for
us. So I'm not an expert - I've started digging into it - some
months ago - still very unexpert. I was always thinking of it
like something not so important, but when I came to USA - and
watched the RELIGIOUS CHANNEL here - i was amazed. PEOPLE ARE
REALLY BELIEVING.... I've seen how one of the pastors was explaining
the word HUMAN - it was from HU...(something) and MAN (mana)
HU is from some greek word - DIRT/SOIL and MAN - from MANA -
magic. So he said somethin like that GOD put HU...(can't remmember
the whole word) into MANA - and made HUMAN. This of course sound
to me - as word play... Greek was made many years after people
start believing in THE ONLY ONE GOD.
sorry for any who feel offended by posting this thread,
the same way i can feel offended because of that. There is freedom
of speech - ONLY FANATICS feel offended - people who really believe
will come with TRUE WORDS and say that to non-believers.
____________
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Incubus
Disgraceful
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 16, 2001 11:09 PM |
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Quote:
sorry for any who feel offended by posting this thread,
the same way i can feel offended because of that. There is freedom
of speech - ONLY FANATICS feel offended - people who really believe
will come with TRUE WORDS and say that to non-believers.
WHATTTTTT! I think it's like this... The non-believers will tell TRUE WORDS to the ones that are so stupid to believe!
Please stop with this! Live your own life.. just make no mess of it.. To go to church and other snow is just a waste of your time.... do you remember the time before your birth? That's like it going to be again when your death...
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malkia
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 16, 2001 11:20 PM |
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Hey Incubus - sorry for bad perephrasing...
Will try better english now
I say that the way people may feeled offended and say that to this thread - the same way I can feeled offended by saying that to me.
It's like saying to you, asking you - "Do you believe in GOD, are you afraid to start believeing or not?" - and you say that you are OFFENDED - well then I'll feel offended - i've just asked you simple question - you want to start a war...
Of course you'll not say that, cause you as you said you are nonbeliever... But some one else may be...
and why the hell on dollars there is "IN GOD WE TRUST" - i think non-believers should feel offended by this thing! Translated by their language it means - "IN NOTHING WE TRUST" - which is anarchy....
at the end this is the tavern place - if anyone doesn't want to listen - please don't come in. I don't know of any tavern which will stop me from saying what i want....
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ozzyosbourne
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
Riddler of the Sky
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posted August 17, 2001 02:09 AM |
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Hey guys, you need to have faith in others and your soul. And you have to have trust too, not to go around telling people that GOD isnt real.. but he's real in you and me.. He keeps us from going into harm...
If it wasn't for GOD.. whatever he is.. Wherever he really is.. Then you'd all be dead right now. I dont know how and why but you would.
____________
Life is like a carousel. Spinning fast you got to ride them well. The only time you speak is in your dreams.
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aerial
Adventuring Hero
Creator of nightmares
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posted August 17, 2001 02:13 AM |
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BLEHHH
Ozzy that is the most stupid idiotic thing i ve ever heard
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ozzyosbourne
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
Riddler of the Sky
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posted August 17, 2001 03:11 AM |
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LOL
LOL i know, i have NO clue where i heard that.. i just always wanted to say that to someone.. this was a good post and time to say that.. LOL!
____________
Life is like a carousel. Spinning fast you got to ride them well. The only time you speak is in your dreams.
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Coldfyrius
Promising
Famous Hero
Vice-God for Marketing
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posted August 17, 2001 03:53 AM |
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Quote:
Hey guys, you need to have faith in others and your soul.
Already have the first. Second one doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Nor does your implication that the two are inseperable.
Quote:
And you have to have trust too, not to go around telling people that GOD isnt real..
This is'nt really a proper grammatical construct, but I think it says: Have faith, and don't say that God doesn't exist. If you wan my opinion on faith and Friedrich Nietzsche's in the bargain, look at my signature.
Quote:
but he's real in you and me.. He keeps us from going into harm...
Maybe it's just me, but I think humans are smart enough to go a day without stepping in front of traffic without divine assistance.
Quote:
If it wasn't for GOD.. whatever he is.. Wherever he really is..
Orwellian. In other words, you're saying:
"I have no frikkin' clue who God is. Nevertheless I believe in Him and urge you to do the same.
Quote:
Then you'd all be dead right now. I dont know how and why but you would.
This is the worst argument I have ever heard, besides when my parents say "Go to bed" as a way of responding to my observations that I am not tired and have nothing to do the next day. You say that something bad will happenn to us if we don't agree with you. That's an argument from force. Then you say that you cannot provide any evidence of you being right; we just have to believe. Pretty serious logical fallacy there, too. In other words, you want us to have faith, as there's no ther way of coming to belief in God. Faith. Science doesn't involve faith, and it's been churning out technological improvements based on the scientific method since Francis Bacon. Nobody has ever invented anything useful based on religion.
____________
"All the punks are gonna scream, 'yippee!'/ 'Cuz it's the thing that only eats hippies."
-The Dead Milkmen
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