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| Thread: poll: Should we believe in God or no? (inspired by french mathematician Pascal) |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 · «PREV |
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Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted February 21, 2004 12:11 AM |
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What is right? You have no standard, so what you are saying is that it does not conform to your particular whims.
Arg, don´t American kids get any philosophy lessons?
Well, Vadskye, let´s tackle your idea from a different side. Assuming god orders you to murder an innocent person. Is that murder morally right or wrong?
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted February 21, 2004 12:20 AM |
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That happened in the Bible BTW...well almost, it was close.
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Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
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posted February 21, 2004 12:34 AM |
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Edited By: Khaelo on 20 Feb 2004
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that tricky question 15...
Question 15 was the one that bit me, as well. I think that if you answered "true" to question 7 (that it is justifiable to base one's beliefs on firm inner conviction), the test is inevitably going to either bite or hit you on question 15.Quote:
Arg, don´t American kids get any philosophy lessons?
No, actually, we don’t.
Edit: clipped.
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 Cleverly
disguised as a responsible adult
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted February 21, 2004 12:50 AM |
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OK, lets consider this a moment. If there is no God, then there is no right and wrong
After a moments consideration I frankly think that statement is laughable.
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Athiests cannot have a right and wrong
I'd like to see you prove that.
But then I see you tried. I'm afraid that your attempt kind of fails. Something called consience plays a heavy part in my life, for example, I know that killing my niece is wrong because:
A) She does not deserve it
B) She is merely a child, any wrong she has done can be partly explained as growing up
C) It would cause untold grief for the family and myself
D) It's something that would cause me untold hatred of myself.
And numerous other reasons
Perhaps atheists do decide for themselves right from wrong, but how is this illogical or incorrect? Who are YOU to say that anyway? Are our laws illogical because they fail to conform to biblical ones? Can our society by it's democratic process not come to a consensus on right and wrong that covers more than mere book written thousands of years past did?
Extending Lews' point for a moment if I may, I offer you this thought. Many a christian will tell you that god is unfathomable, we simply cannot understand either his motives or actions from our mortal viewpoint, correct? So how do christians derive their views on right and wrong? If from the bible, how can you be sure this is the "word of god?" Especially when the bible is full of things that are the very opposite of christian teachings. Does this not show perhaps that the bible is a book derived from people's writings, those same people struggling to define right from wrong?
Look at religious faith for a moment if you will, I'll take christianity as a sample. Derived from the writings in the bible, it's hard to say what is and is not "right". Is it wrong to kill people? Then why does god command the Jews to take back the holy land by storm, sacking cities along the way? Is it wrong to rape someone? Then why does biblical laws say that the rapist must marry the victim?
With such a confusing and conflicting piece to base "right" and "wrong" on the truth is, most religious people are forced to choose this for themselves also. The proof lies in the vast variety of different churches and religions in simple christianity and their differing views on "right and wrong". Each group, each person and so on makes their own mind up on what they consider morally justifiable. Atheists are no more than one more (although totally unconnected usually) group trying to figure out the mystery of what is "right and wrong".
And given the history of the church even up to the modern day, I don't think you can seriously sit there and try to claim that the Churches of the Christian faith have managed a consistent idea of what is morally acceptable either.
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Athiests thus cannot have a right and wrong!
Sorry but no. Either no-one has an idea of these things, or atheiests have no better idea than others. Either way your statement is quite insulting to those of that persuasion.
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Svarog
Honorable
Supreme Hero
statue-loving necrophiliac
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posted February 23, 2004 02:38 AM |
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No need to reply to the provocation, since the other guys said it in my place. thanks, boys.
Hey, PH, i don’t wanna jump to conclusions, but it seems to me that you are under influence of the British philosophical empiricism, rather than rationalism. Am I right?
I too respect emirical philosophers, mostly Hume.
That’s an explanation why i don’t believe in moral ethics. I think everybody should do what their heart and emotions tell them, not code ethics. There are no universal morally right or wrong things, only right and wrong, according to me and my feelings.
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The meek shall inherit the earth, but NOT its mineral rights.
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted February 23, 2004 03:41 AM |
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Hey, PH, i don’t wanna jump to conclusions, but it seems to me that you are under influence of the British philosophical empiricism, rather than rationalism. Am I right?
If I am, I don't know it  I don't tend to study philosophy much to be honest.
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Conan
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted November 03, 2004 10:29 PM |
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wow, this is truely interesting.
But, I find Pascal's original argument to be flawed.
Let me explain.
He says: if you beleive in God and you are wrong, you loose little.
- Not at all. You loose alot. Indeed, if you are a priest and dedicated your entire life to worshipping god, you have lost your entire life.
So, it should be like this:
God exists God does not exist
Wager for God Gain all Misery
Wager against God Misery Status quo
So, in each case, you have a chance to loose alot, but still, at least if you believe, you can gain something.
In the end, though, believing is still better.
BTW, I am not a beleiver in religion, but I beleive in spirituality.
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Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward, you will service.... us. - Star Trek TNG
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