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| Thread: poll: Should we believe in God or no? (inspired by french mathematician Pascal) |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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CraigHack
Known Hero
Have fantasies, will travel...
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posted August 15, 2001 10:46 PM |
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A white room!
I remember it well Ozzie. It WAS a White Room....
With Black Curtains.....
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The Gods have brought us together... I can't imagine why.
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Incubus
Disgraceful
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 15, 2001 10:51 PM |
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Well said!
Quote:
Wow, Ozzy Osbourne(certainly not your name!) I could care less if you are offended. In fact it is people like you believing in this so-called GOD that just make me laugh. I mean come on no one ever in the history of Mankind has come up with a shred of evidence that this GOD- oh creator of all, even exists. You think there is actually something out there that said, hmm, earth looks kind of dead now i think i will make some humans and see what they do! COME ON, your an fool to believe in such nonsense.
I will make no more posts on this thread as i have always found(again proven here) that people that like to believe in false beings are in fact weak. They have no personal inner strength and need to believe in these things to justify there own existance.
I will be back however to prove my points mentioned above. Cant wait!
I like your style! It's odd... the most Smart people in my class believe in god....(Smart in Study) But i think they are very STUPID as it comes to facts... If you believe in that kind of fairytales.. your iq can't be that high.. sorry.
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ugene_de_mue...
Adventuring Hero
Romanii ca brazii
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posted August 15, 2001 11:04 PM |
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Mwahahaaa this is funny...
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Give me one year and I'll teach your horse to speak
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aerial
Adventuring Hero
Creator of nightmares
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posted August 15, 2001 11:11 PM |
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GOD? HELL NO!
I dont believe in god and i think the world would be a better place if nobody believed.
People should start believing in themselfs instead of god
Because it is so easy to blame god when something goes wrong.
I believe that god and satan R just names given to the 2 different sides of people: good and bad
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ozzyosbourne
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
Riddler of the Sky
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posted August 15, 2001 11:55 PM |
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Well Ironcrap lets see here... You were being sarcastic about God and him putting humans on earth..
"Hmm earth looks kindof dead.. ill think ill put humans on it to see what they will do!" Well if not God, how or what did put us on earth and WHY?! not everything is a joke.. especially not the exsistence of Humans and Animals
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Life is like a carousel. Spinning fast you got to ride them well. The only time you speak is in your dreams.
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted August 16, 2001 03:41 AM |
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You made the most sense so far Bort
Quote:
I always find Pascal's wager somewhat amusing. It's incredibly Eurocentric. It presents spirituality as a binary (since we're talking about PASCAL) choice :
0. There is a God in the Judea-Christian sense
1. There is nothing
I fail to see why it couldn't be more along the lines of:
a. there is a God in the Judea-Christian sense
b. there is nothing
c. there is another sort of God that isn't particularly happy about this concept of a Judea-Christian God and is just waiting to make things really difficult and painful for smartasses who think they figured out the loophole like Pascal
d. the Buddhists are right (or Hindus, or Wiccans, or that cult that drank poisoned kool-aid)
e. the human God evolved from a monkey god and then created the Earth, the Universe, man as well as animals whose purpose (apparently) is to keep meat fresh until God's chosen decide they need a hamburger(to reconcile Evolution and Creationism)
It's also not entirely clear that going through the motions of worship to hedge your bets and avoid punishment really constitutes belief.
The biggest fault in anything is choosing to look at something as an all or nothing proposition. The universe is a very large place, and if you want to start thinking in multiverse's then it's even larger. There is only a choice between all or nothing when you don't accept change or look at anything from the perspective you started with. If you think to deny something really denies it you are deluded because in the denial you admit your belief that one of those two choices is correct. Why can't people admit they don't know, and also it very probably won't ever matter to who they are now(as you can't be sure till you are dead anyway). So what if aliens landed tomorrow and showed us proff they are our creators, who created them? There will always be the need to accept certain things on no other basis than belief, otherwise why do you do anything? You would be lost without having belief.
Pascual's theory, also Okhams razor etc, make a very convincing arguement if you accept their basic premise, however as anyone who ever debated knows, which premises you accept is more than half the battle. Since we can't ever know what is unknowable, there will always be supernatural, whether it is gods, anscestors, or aliens.
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dArGOn
Famous Hero
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posted August 16, 2001 08:45 AM |
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Edited By: dArGOn on 17 Aug 2001
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Ironmlh…I was a little disappointed in your narrow view.
Your comment stating that those who believe in God are weak is in total dispute with my personal experience and much of social science...social science has shown over and over that people who have a faith actually live longer and are able to survive diseases more often, etc.
The Bible written by man…I think you would have a very hard time proving that if you knew anything about textual criticism which shows the Bible to be an amazing book with uncanny accuracy and symmetry.
Shred of evidence of God…well there again you show yourself to be uninformed as there is tons of “evidence” (contextual criticism, personal experience/changed lives, philosophical arguments, etc.) I could list all the “evidence” but that would get exhausting for everyone.
And as for proof of God...I challenge you to ever prove that he doesn’t exist...in fact it is impossible to do.
Evolution…there are so many holes in that theory that it is like Swiss cheese. If evolution did occur...which it might of (I have not made up my mind about theocentric evolution...where did the first atom or substance come from.??? To prove evolution, to really prove it, you would have to witness it from the beginning of time...so since no one can prove it to that extent then it remains a theory.
In the end I think those who believe and don’t believe can bring out very strong arguments to support their thesis. But to state that one side is stupid shows complete ignorance.
I choose to believe in God for a variety of reasons...but in the end I can convince no one as it depends upon faith. In addition, the Bible states that some are “blind” and can never see (as I am sure the reverse argument can be made about my beliefs). I believe because of personal experience and that life makes much more sense in relation to God. In addition, belief in God provides endless meaning and hope which this world (and myself) seems to be in desperate need of.
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Sha_Men
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
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posted August 16, 2001 09:28 AM |
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My
Evolution...
There is huge problem if you think that evolution just "happened". It just didn't happen but in fact it is happening right now. I believe that world is in it's all is so complex not singlemind can think it as whole. Evolution is in my believe driving force of universe. We, humans are part of it and continue to change. Progress is wrong word. Everytime we gain something we also lose something.
Bort and Ichon are speaking here really wisely. It is unnecessary to believe but those who believe let them believe like Dragon. It doesn't really matter to me until someone is trying to change my believe. I believe it's happening all the time. Trying to change the way I believe in everything. You just have to use critical point of view to know what is important to you to believe. You can call it logic or whatever but we are binded to these brains. People have always divided everything into two. This has something to do with our brain not necessarily our universe. We need to group things and choose which ones to believe to remain sane. I don't really read bible but there is one book that makes sense to me, it is Ecclesiastes. I always find interesting stuff from there even despite it's small book. There is surplus of knowledge in all religious books but don't take without critic what they say in them...
We can see everything only through our own mind. And that mind is like labyrinth. From deep down comes horrors of pain, suffering and death which drive us to seek way out of the labyrinth, into corner that is peaceful without constant fear. For someone that corner is religion and the warmness of people being close something greater for some others the calming voice of own conscious and some others the cold logic. But above all is death. And whatever word you use that from as final judgement or such you will die. There is no escape from it.
If we look that Pascal theory and essay. I would say that I choose to live my life as I see the best. If god is so great he/she/it will understand me and my choices at the end.
Here's a thing that Buddha said (At least so story tells this):
Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books.
Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.
Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.
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I use this as guideline for my life (not that I'm buddhist) it's your choice what you do...
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Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.
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LichKing
Honorable
Known Hero
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posted August 16, 2001 09:31 AM |
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This thread is completely pathetic!
Valeriy or Rogue, please delete this offensive thread.
I don't care whether anyone in the whole community believes in God or not. It is none of my business.
However, to say that someone who does believe in God is weak, foolish or intellectually inferior is blatently offensive and totally inconsiderate. If you don't believe in God, that's fine....just don't go insulting everyone else in the world who does.
I don't give a damn what any of you believe. This is your personal choice. BUT, don't you think you could be a bit more tactful in expressing your beliefs in a public forum? There is no reason for anyone in here to go stepping all over someone else's core beliefs.
To many people, belief in God and the afterlife is as important as breathing air. How many of these people are in here shoving their faith down everyone else's throat and chasing it down with a heaping dose of malice and contempt?
I don't want anyone misunderstanding me here--I am no 'Holy Roller'. In fact, I haven't gone to church since I was old enough to stand up to my parents and tell them "No, I'm not doing this any more." So if you want to flame me for this post, by all means do so. Just make sure you know what you're talking about when you do it.
I may not be deeply religious, but that does not mean that I do not believe in God in my own way. I haven't condemned everyone who feels differently than me just because I don't agree with them. I don't appreciate being insulted by those of you who feel you need to attack EVERYONE else whose beliefs might differ from yours.
How hard can it be for you people to actually consider how what you write on these boards is going to affect the people who read it? If you have something to say, say it. Just don't say it in a manner that is deeply and directly insulting to the people who feel differently about the subject than you do. Is this too much to ask?
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Sha_Men
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
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posted August 16, 2001 09:38 AM |
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Lichking...
This isn't really direct insult...
You can say in message board do you believe into God or not. Of course there will be people grouping up saying believe into god! or don't believe!
Don't read the posts Lichking if you can't take it. Those messages aren't mentioned to you directly. It might offend people seeing these here but I think there are other threads that can do the same thing too...
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Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.
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LichKing
Honorable
Known Hero
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posted August 16, 2001 09:47 AM |
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Sha_Men
Of course you can say whether or not you believe in God. I NEVER said you couldn't. What I said was you shouldn't go around insulting EVERYONE who does just because you don't agree with them.
I think what I wrote was pretty clear. Perhaps you should read it again.
And please don't tell me what to read or not read if you don't think I can "take it". You don't know me so you have no idea what I can take. Save your concern for yourself.
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Sha_Men
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
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posted August 16, 2001 09:53 AM |
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No need to be aggressive Lichking..
Because I see your point. Very clearly.
In fact I was going to mention the same thing that people should little bit think what to say about others believes.
However I left this not to say because it would be censorship.
What I find very offensive is your saying that entire thread should be removed. I have used time to write and read my posts. Are they offensive?
If yes I would say that you should change the channel.
But if not and you find somebody elses post offensive I think remind is enough. Just look "hit'n'ran" thread I myself go there over the edge. That is what I have criticed also before people go over the line.
Maybe you cannot compare "religious" thread to gaming thread but what people feel insulted is different thing.
I don't know you Lichking and you don't know me. I think we both have same issues here still.
BTW you should read censorship thread from TOH board there is really something insulting.
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Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.
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LichKing
Honorable
Known Hero
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posted August 16, 2001 10:02 AM |
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My reply
.....is no reply.
Find someone else to play your debate games with. I'm not interested.
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Viper
Known Hero
Lord of Black Magic
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posted August 16, 2001 10:38 AM |
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I dont belive in God. It sounds stupid to me when man asks God to help him or give something. I think that religion importand for loosers and weak people. If you want to achive something to it yourself istead of asking God to help you
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Sha_Men
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
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posted August 16, 2001 11:04 AM |
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Very interesting Lichking
So you weren't looking for any debate but only saying that whole thread should be deleted?...
OK, now I get it.
Please don't reply so we don't have to play any "debate games"...
BTW I'm the last person you want to play debate games with for sure and I'm the last person to start playing debate games. Believe or not.
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Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.
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Viper
Known Hero
Lord of Black Magic
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posted August 16, 2001 11:13 AM |
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Quote:
.....is no reply.
Find someone else to play your debate games with. I'm not interested.
Looks like you're just increasing your post counter
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mASteRgeNIe
Adventuring Hero
Genie taking the Smeg!!!
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posted August 16, 2001 12:37 PM |
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God?!
I think that this post is starting to get outta hand.. but hey... as long as i'm a member i'm gonna have my say too...
all of you who dont believe in God, lemme ask you, what is your reason for living?? Anyone who believes in God, has a reason to live.. a REAL reason to live... but all you non-believers... if there is no afterlife or anything, than what is the point in even being alive...
i agree with lichking that this post is starting to get insulting to people who believe in God, like myself...
and as for people like ironmlh, and incubus, listen and listen well, coz i'm only gonna say this once:
by NOT believing in god, youre only condeming yourself, i would think long and hard before you again pubicly critized God, coz one day, you'll find that you were wrong, but by then it'll be too late to change anything!!!
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 ~maStERgENiE~
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arachnid
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted August 16, 2001 01:47 PM |
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Quote:
The Bible written by man…I think you would have a very hard time proving that if you knew anything about contextual criticism which shows the Bible to be an amazing book with uncanny accuracy and symmetry.
The biggest problem i have with this are:
If you are trying to say god himself wrote the bible well we are living life totally wrong then why does it not say you slavery is allowed quite clearly and that snakes are evil should we not try and kill them all if its gods way?
And if this book was written by "GOD" himself dont you think he could of used i like "then i made light i then decided to add water" i mean if hes powerful enough to create the entire universe you would think he would be able to write it like a big autobiography.
Why also does he have to make too make a new version when times change and things in the old Testament are no longer acceptable in society? Why did he change himself from a god of "an eye for an eye" into "love thy neighbour"? Why did he
"The Bible consists of sixty-six different books, composed by many different writers, in three different languages, under different circumstances; writers of almost every social rank, statesmen and peasants, kings, herdsmen, fishermen, priests, tax-gatherers, tentmakers; educated and uneducated, Jews and Gentiles; most of them unknown to each other, and writing at various periods during the space of about 1600 years: and yet, after all, it is only one book dealing with only one subject in its numberless aspects and relations, the subject of man's redemption. "
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Sha_Men
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jack-Of-No-Trades
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posted August 16, 2001 02:22 PM |
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For Mastergenie..
Don't take offend if people say they don't believe into god or say that those are stupid who believe.
Understanding different people is essential to be able to live in peace in first place.
Why do I live?
Well if you mean that why I live because I don't serve god...
I live because I was born. Can't do anything about it that I was born. I was helpless and suicide at birth isn't the thought you first think you know.
So if I'm born why not to seek little further and try to understand life? Maybe I get never into any "goal" like you have by believing God and by going into afterlife but it's better than to live kill myself right now. Life isn't just good or bad it just is. It's neutral thing.
And if God truly exist he probably knows what I'm doing if God is superbeing. In my book understanding is above everything else because without understanding you only wander in dark. This is basically the same thing as what is said in Bible, isn't it? And God as superbeing can understand everything. So why he couldn't understand ones who doesn't worship him/her/it?
It isn't so black and white you know. God or no God.
Who really cares? Everybody really, but it's their decision. Don't judge people into basics what they believe. If afterlife is the important one why people are trying to change ways we are living now. I think it's really stupid to speak about afterlife and then say what other people should think now.
I can now publicly say that I don't believe into God. God, did you hear that. I think if God exist God knows that I don't believe even without me announcing it here. So what you are talking here doesn't matter. Of course if you believe to that talk about poisoning peoples minds that is their lost if they do/don't believe. Let it rest.
However we need little bit understanding into both camps...
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Catch the vigorous horse of your mind.
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Coldfyrius
Promising
Famous Hero
Vice-God for Marketing
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posted August 16, 2001 02:46 PM |
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Quote:
I think that this post is starting to get outta hand.. but hey... as long as i'm a member i'm gonna have my say too...
all of you who dont believe in God, lemme ask you, what is your reason for living??
My reason for living? Something I saw in a book somewhere: "No man has a right to die while he can still help his fellows." There it is. Atheistic morality.
Quote:
Anyone who believes in God, has a reason to live.. a REAL reason to live... but all you non-believers... if there is no afterlife or anything, than what is the point in even being alive...
And getting into heaven is a reason to stay alive? That's a rather selfish reason to live. t makes all the good things you do to get in just seem so cynical.
Quote:
i agree with lichking that this post is starting to get insulting to people who believe in God, like myself...
Look, nobody's tying you down and forcing you to read ths thread. If it offends you, you're free to not read it or to come up with a rational response to it.
Quote:
and as for people like ironmlh, and incubus, listen and listen well, coz i'm only gonna say this once:
This last part is a sure sign that everybody here has heard the following statement before and has a reason to not adhere to it.
Quote:
by NOT believing in god, youre only condeming yourself, i would think long and hard before you again pubicly critized God, coz one day, you'll find that you were wrong, but by then it'll be too late to change anything!!!
Ah, the argument from force ... possibly my favorite logical fallacy. If God can't prove his own existence he shouldn't expect us to believe in Him and has no right to send us to Hell for thinking he doesn't exist.
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"All the punks are gonna scream, 'yippee!'/ 'Cuz it's the thing that only eats hippies."
-The Dead Milkmen
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