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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted June 05, 2008 06:57 PM |
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Seconded. 
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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Mulroney
Hired Hero
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posted June 05, 2008 08:21 PM |
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Binabik, while I almost entirely believe you, you're forgetting one small thing: Obama does not. Sure, he may not have the power to do everything he's promising, but the president of the US sure has a lot of power, and a lot would already have been done had Bush not been there to veto it. Just look at Canada: public health care, legalized gay marriage; these came about as a direct result of the Prime Minister who was in charge at the time.
You make a good point that years of Republican justices haven't changed anything on, for example, abortion. Obama, though, (at least in my eyes) has proven himself to be a lot more extreme even than Reagan was. Not that McCain is much better.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 05, 2008 08:24 PM |
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Tell me, Mulroney... What exactly is wrong with gay marriage?
And doesn't unfettered capitalism have flaws?
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Eccentric Opinion
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted June 05, 2008 09:05 PM |
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Both candidates are going to tell you what you want to hear, Mulroney, and don't think they are running for the office for the citizens. They are running for themselves.
As to the Supreme Court Justicies, abortion is an issue they really don't want to touch. It's not worth the hassle. The current system isn't broken, so they aren't going to try to fix it.
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
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posted June 05, 2008 10:02 PM |
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Our four fathers put a lot of red tape and standards into place so that not one party or person would have complete power. The president has to jump through all the political hoops to get anything done. There are checks and balances put into place for a reason. Obama will be an excellent asset to this country and he will get things done.
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Learn how to duck and weave because I will throw truth at you all day!
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted June 05, 2008 10:26 PM |
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First let's see him defeat McCain.
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
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posted June 05, 2008 10:35 PM |
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Not really an issue... McCain will fall over from a heart attack first.
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Learn how to duck and weave because I will throw truth at you all day!
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted June 05, 2008 10:40 PM |
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Ted Kennedy is still kicking and so is Dick Cheny, so I think McCain will be fine.
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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Mulroney
Hired Hero
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posted June 05, 2008 10:46 PM |
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Yeah, I don't think McCain's age is as big an issue as some people would like.
What's wrong with gay marriage? Nothing, unless you'd like the religious tradition of the sanctity of marriage to remain untainted. Some people don't care as much, but obviously the majority of Americans remain opposed.
I'm less afraid of Republicans than Democrats. If you think about it, what is the worst a majority Republican senate with a Repub President could accomplish? To remain status quo. A majority D senate with a D president, though, could change things entirely, rapidly, and irrevocably. They INTEND to and they make that clear.
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted June 05, 2008 10:51 PM |
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Note: this was written before the most recent posts, so I'm behind.
Omega, yea the high court tends to stay away from hot button issues. But the decision to hear or not hear a case is still a decision. The bottom line is that 20 years of politically conservative presidential appointments has not resulted in Woe v. Wade being overturned. By choosing to not hear a sweeping abortion case results in a politically expedient way to uphold Woe v. Wade.
And when it comes to hot button issues, I'm surprised they are hearing a case at the very core of the 2nd amendment. As near as I can tell it's a pretty straight forward case. I'd like to see if they can sidestep the real issue.
@ Mulroney. First, there is no way to compare the US president to the Canadian PM. Not only is there a huge difference in size of the countries and governments, and therefore a huge difference in the bureaucratic hurdles which need to be overcome, but the way they are chosen is entirely different. The PM, almost by definition, already has widespread support in the legislative branch. Whereas that can be far from true in the US government.
It goes back to what I said about the President only having truly influential power with a friendly and receptive Congress. It's possible for the President to be influential with a Congress of the opposite party, but ONLY if the pres is well liked within Congress (or maybe well respected is a better term) and is highly popular with the general populace.
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted June 05, 2008 10:52 PM |
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I can understand people not wanting gay marriages but I can't understand opposition to gay unions.
As to the Democracts, that's assuming they can unify. For all of their complaining about the President, even with their majority, they were unable to really hinder the conflict efforts.
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted June 05, 2008 10:55 PM |
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IMO, the Democrats taking over Congress actually hurt their chances of a Presidential victory. A year ago there was so much dissatisfaction with the status quo that I thought there was no way in hell for a Republican victory. But when the dems took over Congress I think it was like a big valve releasing a lot of pent up steam.
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted June 05, 2008 10:59 PM |
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Yeah. They were all talk and no action. People tend to forget Congress has had a lower approval rating than the President for quite a long time now.
Roe v. Wade is one of those issues nobody really wants on their conscious to decide. And if they were to change it, they would have to deal with hundreds of appeals and petitions for review, which would really tie up the court. So far, it's been going somewhat smoothly, so there is no need to really change it. I don't know why I'm debating this point, becuase I really do agree with your assessment. I suppose I'll blame studying for the bar for putting me in an argumentative mood.
As to the 2nd Amendment, they really can't avoid it anymore. The only way it can really come out is for the ban to be declared unconstitutional, which it is.
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 06, 2008 12:21 AM |
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Quote:
Ted Kennedy is still kicking
Not for long. Plus, he's not that old. Just 76.
Quote:
What's wrong with gay marriage? Nothing, unless you'd like the religious tradition of the sanctity of marriage to remain untainted.
In the eyes of the government, marriage is a civil thing, not a religious one.
Quote:
If you think about it, what is the worst a majority Republican senate with a Repub President could accomplish?
An unwinnable war in Iraq
A huge and growing budget deficit
The US being less and less popular worldwide
Making people more ignorant (not saying that the Democrats wouldn't do it either)
A reduction in civil liberties
Need I go on?
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Eccentric Opinion
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted June 06, 2008 05:56 AM |
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Binabik,
I'm not sure what you are getting at. It seems like everything you just said goes without saying. It's the kind of stuff we already know. All except for one thing:
The president has far more power than you think in two regards:
1. The military
2. Setting up contracts, such as those with Haliburton
Domestically speaking, you're absolutely correct. But if there's a war then the president is given a lot more authority almost instantly. To the point of such things as....dare I say it....the Patriot Act. Domestic or not, I assure you it is certifiably related.
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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Mulroney
Hired Hero
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posted June 07, 2008 01:16 AM |
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Quote:
What's wrong with gay marriage? Nothing, unless you'd like the religious tradition of the sanctity of marriage to remain untaintedIn the eyes of the government, marriage is a civil thing, not a religious one.
In the eyes of everybody else, it is a religious one or nothing at all. Common-law gays already have the same legal, governmental rights as married people. All that's left is for them to try to claim the traditional title.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted June 07, 2008 01:23 AM |
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Quote:
Common-law gays already have the same legal, governmental rights as married people.
In many states, they don't. Do a little research. I've already recently written about this topic until my fingers turned blue over at CH. I'm not ready to start doing it here again, unless someone gets far enough under my skin about it. But posts like this make me itch...
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Mulroney
Hired Hero
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posted June 07, 2008 01:59 AM |
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Quote:
In many states, they don't. Do a little research. I've already recently written about this topic until my fingers turned blue over at CH. I'm not ready to start doing it here again, unless someone gets far enough under my skin about it. But posts like this make me itch...
I'll be honest; I know very little about this topic in the U.S. I'll take your word for it, though, and I'll agree at least that they SHOULD have the same legal rights and responsibilites as married couples.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted June 07, 2008 03:57 AM |
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Here you go, a state by state analysis of the legality of same-sex marriages and civil unions or domestic partnerships. As you'll see, only a few states even recognize civil unions or domestic partnerships at this point, and even those offer few of the 1000+ economic and legal rights that married heterosexuals enjoy. It's a sham and it's discriminatory and it's no different from forbidding blacks to marry whites (which was once the law btw).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_partnerships_in_the_United_States
To be frank, I'm against the whole idea of civil unions in the first place. Homosexuals should be able to marry, plain and simple. There shouldn't be a different name for it, either. How many times do we have to demonstrate in this country that separate is not equal? You don't have to "approve" of homosexuality to understand this. I don't see what approval has to do with it anyway.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted June 07, 2008 04:18 AM |
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I support the idea of civil unions with every right a marriage has. Ideally, a marriage is a civil union and a religious ceremony. So even opposite-sex marriages are in actuality civil unions. So the government should be able to give out civil unions regardless of the couple's genders, and these couples can call themselves married (partially because saying "we're civil unioned" sounds dumb), but the government can't force a religious organization to marry any couple.
So, from the government's point of view, marriage should be between any people that have reached majority and signed a marriage license. From the church/mosque/sinagogue's point of view, they may or may not be married.
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Eccentric Opinion
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