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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Best First Level Creature...
Thread: Best First Level Creature... [ This thread is 9 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 (7) 8 9 ]
Dassa_Gozza
Dassa_Gozza

Tavern Dweller
posted November 10, 2008 04:41 AM

For me Centaur Captains are the best. Fast, having 10hp, good Attack and also good average damage. Their only weakness is low defence, but overall I like them the most.

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MagniBronzeb...
MagniBronzebeard


Adventuring Hero
posted November 10, 2008 06:31 AM

Is obvious that the best lvl1 creatures are those without horde building and no hero specialization for them. Thus, pikeman, centaur and (master) gremlin.
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Shares
Shares


Supreme Hero
I am. Thusly I am.
posted November 10, 2008 01:42 PM
Edited by Shares at 17:00, 24 Nov 2008.

I agree, the pikies have very high hp, even when nonupgraded and good damage (1-4 or somethin' like that, use bless/haste) and ok speed. Centaurs have more speed, but a bit lower health and k dmg. Master G: SHOOTING, cheap, low hp, dmg and speed.
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LordSM
LordSM


Adventuring Hero
and Chess Maniac:P
posted November 24, 2008 04:44 PM

Okay, so here's my opinion and comparsion:
1) Castle. Here we have Pikeman and Halberdiers. Sturdy, with much hp as lvl 1 and good def(only Marauders beat them here, but they have less hp). However, their weakness is low speed.
2) Rampart. Centaurs and Centaur Capts dwell here. Upg. ones are much like Halberidiers, but 2 def lower, 3 spd higher and 15 gold more expensive.Is speed worth def and 15 extra gold? I don't think so.
3) Tower. Gremlins are useless, but Master Gremlins earn a useful ablility-shooting(as well as 1 point to att and def). They're bad in it, but in start it's enough.
4)Imps and Familars are both cannon fodder. The only clear point of Familars is quite high speed, making them better at it
5) Skeletons (Warriors). They're avg 1lvl units, but they have a power-Neccromancy. There may be thousands of them!
6) In the caves of Dungeon you may find Troglodytes and Infernal troglodytes(propably result of allliance with Kreegans). Their big weakness is dmg range (1-3, as Pikeman have), and IMO only upgrades are worth a look, giving one point to att, def, HP and speed, making them quite poweful.
7)Goblins and Hobgoblins living on deserts belonging to Stronghlold. Cheap, weak and as Hobbies fast. They are still fodder, unhappily.
8)Gnolls. As Beastmaster's def points aren't enough for them, Gnolls have highest defence on lvl 1. They're nothing more than weaker kinds of Pikeman-Halbardier.
9)Pixies and Sprites, which are with elementals. Pixes go in numbers, what's they only strhenght.Sprites, however, earn a great ability-enemies can't retaliate to their attacks! For just 5 gold!
Now, my own ranking:
1-Halberdiers
2- Cent. Capts
3-Skel. Warriors
4-Gnolls
5-Sprites
6-Inf. Troglodytes
7-M. Gremlins
8-Hobgoblins
9-Familars
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zEr0
zEr0

Tavern Dweller
posted November 29, 2008 12:27 PM

for me it is
1)Sprite(upgraded) pretty good creature for getting mines,etc. cuz with wait you can kill nearly every non shooter troop
2)Centaur Captain - Fast and strong
3)Halbendiers idk i just like them
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citrusmind
citrusmind


Hired Hero
posted January 10, 2009 10:44 PM

I will add the results later, but I did a full run of testing of every level 1 creature fighting against every other level 1 creature in the amount of 100 each.  I did a full run of non-upgraded, then a run of upgraded.  Here is the basic jist of my findings.

Centaurs beat all eight of the other creature stacks.  It is important to note however that the initiation against pikeman gave them enough of an advantage to outlast them, barely.  So in the case of 200 or 300, pikeman would win.  In fact, because of the law of averages and the application of the stats of attack and defense, a creature with initiation but with lower overall stats will beat a slower but "more powerful" stack only to a certain number.  This is assuming that the two opposing stacks are equal in number.  I plan to run another full set of tests with taking number differences due to weekly generation.

It's important to note that this all occurs in a vacuum b/c in situations with other units, with certain spells, or a difference in player stats, one stack might be more useful than another.

Now moving forward, pikeman beat every except centaurs.  Gnolls beat everyone except pikes/centaurs.  Skeletons beat everyone except the previous three. Then to trogs, goblins, sprites, and gremlins.  The pathetic gremlins lost to everyone.  

Upgrades were more interesting I think.  Again Centaur captains won against every other stack, their health addition of +2 was a huge factor.  Master Gremlins did not win too much more, but were able to chew off a lot more of their slower opponents.  Again I'll edit with exact findings.  Overall, the results stayed mostly the same except that pixies moved up quite a bit, only losing to centaurs (9 spd vs. 8).  Pixies are fast enough to move around the screen and wait for a morale against halbs they can even hit and run if the right obstacle is on the screen.  Pixies and Halbs sorta tie in this manner.


Now this test is purely a arm wrestling contest and does not involve the complexities of a wrestling match, like the game really is.  So, lets add a further analysis which incorporates much of what was mentioned in this thread.  


Pixies are the overall best for several reasons.  They can take out slow moving dwellings without a problem.  If it was 400 pixies vs. 30,000 skeletons, given the right obstacle on the map, they could dance around and eventually kill all of those hard earned necro-offspring.  No retaliation offers so many great possibilities for soloing dwellings, etc... On the other hand, skeletons are a close second if not a tie, for they are a good candidate for the "big battle" with their great number.  Halbs are a good candidate for the big battle too, b/c in large numbers they are dangerous if left alone til the end of battle when the units are in close contact.  Now centaur captains would be next here, with speed and power. Gnolls have 2-3 damage and a defence of 6 I believe, making their staying power effective.  Master Gremlins also have a map clearing appeal, but ultimately a more limited and weaker version of what a pixie and a ballista could do.  Other factors can involve the second unit to be used with these guys.  In most games, conflux and necros are out, so in that sense centaur cap'ns would be great.  2 hex allows for good blocking and they will have initiation on more enemies than a pikeman or halb will have.  I've tried to summarize a few ways at looking at these lvl 1 units, with pixies riding on the top in everything except the arm wrestling match with centaurs.

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LordSkrillax
LordSkrillax

Tavern Dweller
Skrillax owns all!
posted January 14, 2009 12:54 PM

My Ranking:
1---Sprites
2---Cent. Captains
3---Masta Gremlins
4---Nobody Cares
5---Same as 4

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RivalCommander
RivalCommander


Adventuring Hero
posted January 16, 2009 11:36 AM

Gnoll Marauders R.O.C.K. It`s all i can say. If the halberdiers growth wasn`t that big, the gnoll marauders would earn first place...

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NiKitA
NiKitA


Famous Hero
Meepo is underrated
posted January 16, 2009 02:34 PM

gnolls suck,sprites suck unless upgraded and some times i dont want to give up my 7th lvl build week1 for some spirtes.
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Zamfir
Zamfir


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted January 16, 2009 02:58 PM

@Nikita: I must agree with the Gnoll part.
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MorgothBauglir
MorgothBauglir

Tavern Dweller
posted January 20, 2009 05:16 PM

There are too many variables to consider which is the best. Each has it advantage and disadvantage, it depends on the kind of map and enemy you are facing.

But overall these are my choices:

For early game Centaurs and for late game Halberdiers.

Since the CCs are faster, they are better than the halberdiers, but after some time you will have enough other units which make up for it (champions and angels).


And also halberdiers look cool
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xlnt
xlnt


Known Hero
posted January 22, 2009 07:03 AM

What is the best 1 lvl? hmm.. let's see

What i hate to battle most?
master gremlin - it shoots!

What i would like to have in army?
master gremlin - it shoots!!

What is cheap, comes in numbers and .. mm.. shoots?

Duuuh! The master gremlin!!!

How is Heroes 3 played?

you shoot stuff, if stuff too fast - slow stuff and than shoot stuff

nuff said?
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Casihasi
Casihasi


Known Hero
posted January 24, 2009 12:13 PM

It all depends on the amount you get day 1..
If you get Shakti, obviously Trogs are a force that will help you early - a LOT.

So if someone thinks Centaur Captains are best, than this might be true sometimes - they are good, and along with elves the reason why Rampart can rock on early often enough.

What town depends most on its L1 (and lets leave out Necro)?
Tower, everyone will upgrade his gremlins day 1 on random maps, you have no other force to kill stuff with otherwise most of the times.
Conflux also with sprites.
The opposite would be castle where you often want to go for marksmen early, and Pikemen are only there to protect em.

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PrinceJasca
PrinceJasca


Hired Hero
posted January 26, 2009 05:35 AM

What town depends most on its L1 (and lets leave out Necro)?
Quote:
Tower, everyone will upgrade his gremlins day 1 on random maps, you have no other force to kill stuff with otherwise most of the times.

Yes!


Quote:
Conflux also with sprites.


No, Storm Elemental is a good choice! But I agree that sprites are better.


Quote:
The opposite would be castle where you often want to go for marksmen early, and Pikemen are only there to protect em.


Without Pikemen, how can you invade Dragon Fly Hive? I usually play 8XM8 (not very popular in Europe but very popular in my country) and the poverty always makes me unable to build high level unit dwellings, and Marksmens are useless when I enter Hives.  



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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted January 26, 2009 06:01 AM

Quote:
Duuuh! The master gremlin!!!



Uh what? Master Gremlins Do No significant Damage whatsoever, and are both Fragile and Slow. Yes, they shoot, but if the don't do any damage, i would say the suck, unless they are in large numbers (which in fact, is easy to get)

anyway, I think it must be either the Hallbardier, the Sprite or the Centaur Captain

Hallbardier: Lasts EXTREMELY LONG, has nice damage (in contrast to the Pikeman with it's HUGE damage Range), it's a bit slow, but excellent as a guardian to Marksmen.

Sprites: They Die extremely easily, but also have HIGH numbers, and decent damage; no Retaliation simply rocks. I hate attacking sprites without shooters, as they easily outfly any other low-level creature.

Centaur Captains: High Hit Points, good Damage, and fast. Nuff' said.

1) Centaur Captain
2) Hallbardier
3) Sprite.

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NiKitA
NiKitA


Famous Hero
Meepo is underrated
posted January 26, 2009 10:07 PM

LOL just leave those people who dont want to understand alone,they dont play less then month game and as i remember myself playing Hot-seat with frinds with Tower,firts day upgrade gremlins 2nd blacksmth blabla town hall bla bla week 3 maybe gorgoyles.
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Casihasi
Casihasi


Known Hero
posted January 27, 2009 10:23 AM

lol and you are still a Newbie, sorry ^^
Master Gremlins are a good L1, if you get Tower (good players usually play random towns because they can handle them all), you are happy to have them. End of the story, they are more important than Helbadiers.

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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted January 27, 2009 11:54 AM

Quote:
lol and you are still a Newbie, sorry ^^



I'm not a newb

I'm just extremely bad a playing H3
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!

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NiKitA
NiKitA


Famous Hero
Meepo is underrated
posted January 27, 2009 06:44 PM
Edited by Nikita at 19:04, 27 Jan 2009.

Casihasi why dont we play game,what time can you play?im free on weekend.
Quote:
Tower, everyone will upgrade his gremlins day 1 on random maps, you have no other force to kill stuff with otherwise most of the times.
Conflux also with sprites.
The opposite would be castle where you often want to go for marksmen early, and Pikemen are only there to protect em.

i dont know what difficulty you play on and what maps but pls dont tell that on 130 day 1 you build archers then day 2 upgrade them to marksmen and so on,with how many heroes do you play?
As for gremlins are more usefull then halbardiers,they are a lot weaker then them they are shooters so you cant really compare their strenght and AI dumbness but once you attack a high speed unit you lose you so called most usefull unit.It is like comparing Marksmen and gorgoyles.
Here is some pics just to show,stats same no magic,MG shot them 3 times and 2 were with straight arrow(which could be avoided once)btw it was 320 GM:280 H as real growth)


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Salamandre
Salamandre


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 27, 2009 07:20 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 19:48, 27 Jan 2009.

This is far from being concluding. First you choosed native terrain for castle units so your halberds received +1 speed. Second, no one is fool to attack 280 halberds with one stack of gremlins, but will split them in 7 groups and lure or protect. Splitting the halberds will not help in any way.  The outcome will be only 6 gremlins dead vs 280 halberds if played vs AI, +/-30-50 if against human.


Only the centaurs captains are a real threat for gremlins.Your comparison with marksmans vs Obsidian gargs is exaggerated because in that case the speed difference is huge, while MG and Halberds have same speed.
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