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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Not in the Manual
Thread: Not in the Manual [ This thread is 24 pages long: 1 2 3 4 (5) 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ]
Consis
Consis


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
posted March 14, 2006 08:39 AM
Edited by Consis on 14 Mar 2006

Not In The Manual:

I don't think anyone has said it yet but . . . the manual doesn't mention "Beach terrain" (battles that occur when protagonist defender is in the line between ground and ocean. It's simply a neutral terrain along with ship to ship and desert. No creatures have terrain bonuses there. It's really not that important unless you're looking to keep your opponent from using a terrain bonus against you in battle.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I

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dimis
dimis


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
posted March 14, 2006 09:04 AM
Edited by dimis on 14 Mar 2006

Morale bonus and Petrifying attaks

> Morale bonus is not affected by Medusas' Petrifying attacks; meaning that even if a unit is petryfied by a medusa hit, that petrified unit may still gain a morale bonus.
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The empty set

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dimis
dimis


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
posted March 14, 2006 09:38 AM

Multiplayer Teams and Random Generators

Xarfax I don't know if you are going to include this info on your "alternative" manual but this was something useful I learnt from Angelito on his thread here.

> When setting a 2vs2 multiplayer game (no computer team) on a random map, one can not set the allied teams for sure; although computer seems to favor the color-ordering combination (red+blue vs tan+green).
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The empty set

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dimis
dimis


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
posted March 15, 2006 06:56 AM
Edited by dimis on 15 Mar 2006

Clarification on Slow Computation

A minor clarification for the spell we all love:

> The computation of the speed a creature has when it is slowed enforces a floor function (round up to the nearest integer not higher than given number) on the overall speed (including terrain bonus + perhaps hero's specialty) that is computed through manual's formula (75% and 50%). Meaning that formulas are:
Basic Slow . . .: New Speed = floor (Overall Speed * 0.75)
Adv./Exp. Slow: New Speed = floor (Overall Speed * 0.50)

e.g.
Overall Speed 9 -- Basic Slow . . . ==> Speed 6 (9*0,75=6,75)
Overall Speed 9 -- Adv./Exp. Slow ==> Speed 4 (9*0.50=4,50)

Consequence: The effect of the speed bonus a creature-specialist hero gives to his creatures is sometimes diminished after his creatures are slowed.
e.g.
Grand Elves with Ivor on grass receive Adv./Exp, Slow => They get a speed of 4.
However, Grand Elves with Ivor on terrain other than grass that receive Adv./Exp. Slow get again a speed of 4, while with every other hero they would get a speed of 3.

P.S.: Sorry for the long post Xarfax. I've read your first post though!
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The empty set

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Vlaad
Vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted March 15, 2006 07:20 AM
Edited by Vlaad on 15 Mar 2006

on topic
Quote:
4. If hero is attacked when standing inside a mine (gold, crystal, abandoned-trogs) then the battle terrain will be subterranean. (Consis the Knight)

In addition:

A battle in the underground always takes place on the subterranean terrain, no matter what you see on the adventure map.

Siege battles are always fought on the town's native terrain (even if the siege takes place in the underground!).

off topic
Quote:
Remark No.1: Funny thing is how numbers stay in mind. King Vlaad IV is better known as Dracula, which was known for his extreme cruelty against his enemys.
Yeah... When I first registered, I needed a fantasy nick and Vlaad sounded similar to Vladimir. Duh
Quote:
His complete name was Lord Vlaad IV. Tepes. “Tepes” stands for “killing with pikes”. His compared little armie won against the osman rich by sticking long pikes into the riders, lifting them up and ramming the pikes into ground and let the enemy slowly sliding the pike down.

I think the English word is the "Impaler".

On the other hand, Dracula stands for Dragon, as far as I remember.
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Consis
Consis


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
posted March 16, 2006 04:13 PM
Edited by Consis on 16 Mar 2006

Addendum:

Quote:
~ Only a single nomad must be present in your army (mixed or alone) to prevent movement penalty dessert terrain. This is not in the manual and unlike the normal requirement for a Hero's entire army to match the terrain to prevent the terrain movement penalty. (i.e. all Tower for snow/all Fortress for swamp/all Stronghold for rough)

The nomad special "desert walker" ability can be applied in a way that maintains the 'visiting-town-hero' movement trick. It can also be applied outside of a town between two seperate heroes. One for carrying sub-11 speed units and the main with 11 or higher speed units.

Example:

~ Leave all units with speed lower than 11 in a town to start the next day with maximum movement bonus. Let's say your army is a Conflux army but your surrounding terrain is desert. All units (including the nomads) are moved to the garrison position except your Phoenixes. Turn it over to the next day. Check your movement without the nomads and notice it is greatly penalized for the desert terrain. Now place the nomads in your army to travel alongside. Check a new path for movement and notice that your movement penalty has not only been removed but you also now have the full bonus of starting the day with Phoenixes (or any other unit whose speed is 11 or greater). Now you may move 6 full stacks of creatures, while keeping the nomads in the 7th slot, down to your visiting hero. Success! : rather sufficient army with full movement bonus!

Unfortunately this technique cannot be done with other creatures on their native terrain. Ordinarily, if you have even one stack of creatures who are not native to the terrain then you will receive the unavoidable movement penalty.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I

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dimis
dimis


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
posted March 17, 2006 05:04 AM

Damage Calculation

Another basic omission so-far on the alternative manual:

> If the attacker’s Attack skill is lower than defender's Defence skill, then damage is reduced by 2,5% per point of difference instead of 2% that is given in the manual.
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The empty set

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Binabik
Binabik


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted March 17, 2006 04:11 PM

Quote:
The next steps will be....

...to put the lines in correct english.
...to make them look more like "tavern rumors"
...to look for faults in the lines.
...to extract and prepare the H3 file.

ANY HELP WILL BE APPRECIATED


I can help with the English and others. By "looking for faults" do you mean testing everything?



IMPORTANT

The tavern messages have already been completely replaced in WOG. I don't know which file it is, or if there is other stuff in there, but this might mess up WOG.
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LegendMaker
LegendMaker


Promising
Famous Hero
The Metal Specialist
posted March 17, 2006 04:41 PM

Quote:
@LegendMaker:
Quote:
* The red hero in the boat can be attacked by the blue one or sent to trade screen by his fellow red hero ; but not the other way around. Not even the Admiral's Hat make that possible.


> A hero that is on a boat is allowed to initiate a contact (fight or transfer screen) with another hero only if the latter is on some other boat.
Thanks a bunch, dimis

@ Xarfax : Thanks again for this wonderful thread you initiated (and ruled ) here. Glad I could contribute. And hey ! Grats for your +QP ! lmao

@ Angelito : "The man is back in town ! So don't you mess me 'round !" (from AC/DC's TNT, of course)

@ all : Okay, folks ! I'm in for the second phase as well. How shall we procede with the testings ? Each tester works on the whole list by himself then we compare our respective results ? Or we each test, say, from line 1 to 20 and so on ? (In the latter case, I heavily recommend that the original finder doesn't get to check / test his own line(s) for maximum accuracy).

Legendary Cheers.
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LM

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Binabik
Binabik


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted March 17, 2006 04:43 PM
Edited by Binabik on 17 Mar 2006

The longest line I saw so far in the tavern is 150 characters.

I'll start working on the English.  It'll take a while to go through all of them.

edit:

As far as tesing, I've already tested quite a few. I probably ran 30 different tests during this thread, but only some of them made it to the final list. I'll make a list of the ones I already tested.
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Binabik
Binabik


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted March 17, 2006 04:55 PM

I don't mind getting out of work....kind of like a holiday
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LegendMaker
LegendMaker


Promising
Famous Hero
The Metal Specialist
posted March 17, 2006 05:05 PM

Quote:
@Legend youve to check the first 50 lines...nothing less.
Hehehe I'm on it, Sir ! I'll post the results by monday.

Legend.

PS : Who will test the 50 last lines, then ? Bin ?
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LM

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Binabik
Binabik


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted March 17, 2006 05:20 PM

Quote:
PS : Who will test the 50 last lines, then ? Bin ?


I'll volunteer for that if nobody else wants to.

BTW, I've already tested the following:

25, 105

Also 3, 20, 91, 92, 98 are mine and have all been tested. Someone else can verify if they want.

#41 is in the manual


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Binabik
Binabik


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted March 18, 2006 01:17 AM
Edited by Binabik on 18 Mar 2006

This is my first try at posting an image, so I hope it works.




This message is the longest one in the list.  The last ")" is missing.  Notice the last line is over the border of the text area and looks kind of wierd. But it's OK in my opinion.

The tavern will hold up to 4 lines with 55 characters each.  But you lose some characters on each line because of word wrap. So you can't add a total of 22o characters.

A few of the other messages were almost as long as the one posted here.  With word wrap, it's possible they won't fit.  I think anything under 200 characters should be fine, but anything over that should be tested.

If anyone wants to test any of the messages, you can do it in the map editor with the "rumors" tab under map specifications.  The rumors only change once per week, so it can take a while to show up. (putting the hero to sleep and hitting "E" then Enter key speeds up the wait time)
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FireSpirit
FireSpirit


Famous Hero
posted March 18, 2006 03:57 AM
Edited by FireSpirit on 18 Mar 2006

Maybe the rumor could be shortened a little, like: "Anti-Magic is effective against the special abilities of Zombie, Unicorn, Thunderbird and Mummy, but it not against others. (Binabik the Barbarian)"

Btw, I think the creature names should start with capital letters .
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Binabik
Binabik


Responsible
Legendary Hero
posted March 18, 2006 03:47 PM

The exact wording is still being worked out for all the messages. I just wanted to demostrate the maximum length and show that the last line overlaps the border area.

I also don't know if author credits will show, that's up to Xarfax to decide. If they aren't used, there's definately room for all the rumors.

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greek_god_su...
greek_god_superman


Famous Hero
Bringer Of Light
posted March 19, 2006 09:29 AM

IMO, saying instead: "Anti-magic works against some hostile creature abilities, but not all" or something like that sounds more "rumorous" than listing all the creatures whose specialties can or can not be ignored by anti-magic. Dunno, think about it
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After all, marriage and murder are not too different - one ends your life and the other is a crime

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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted March 19, 2006 06:16 PM

- Archangels can "cast" their resurrection while standing in the moat during a siege, without recieving damage from the moat. This counts for their clones aswell.
You can even clone a stack standing in the moat, and the clone will appear in the moat without recieving damage.
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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted March 20, 2006 07:41 AM
Edited by angelito on 20 Mar 2006

I was thinking about no.72 a long time, coz i really doubt it. Made some tests now, and can say the following:

There are 2 spells, which belong to ALL magic schools:
- magic arrow and visions.
Every unit, which is immune to any kind of magic school, is also immune to magic arrow.

I made a test with a might hero, who had no secondary skills, a spellbook and tome of earth. When i went into a battle on magic plains, opened the spellbook i saw all earth spells (on expert level of course), but the magic arrow was shown as airspell, same goes with visions.
I tried it with expert fire also, same result.
Other magic schools showed the same result.

So why is it shown as air spell?
My suggestion (together with ConanTheBarbar) is, itīs just the alphabetical order (Air, Earth, Fire, Water)
So, as long as u have NO magic school it is shown as air.
If u have 2 or more magic schools on same level, it will refer to the magic school coming first in the ABC (e.g.: if u have advanced fire and advanced water, it will be shown as fire spell.)
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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted March 20, 2006 08:59 AM

As far as i know, the only kind of "magic school immunity" is fire, thatīs why it prolly looks like magic arrow would be a fire spell. But there is just no unit, which is immune to all air-, all earth- or all waterspells, thatīs why u canīt have a different example than the efreets and sultans, fire- and energyelementals, firebirds and phoenixes.
If they would have made the water- and iceelementals immune to all waterspells (which would be logical), we could see the same effect.
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