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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Heroes 5 Strategy: Playing Academy Faction
Thread: Heroes 5 Strategy: Playing Academy Faction This thread is 36 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 20 30 ... 32 33 34 35 36 · «PREV
zaio-baio
zaio-baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted October 27, 2016 03:16 PM
Edited by zaio-baio at 20:37, 27 Oct 2016.

markmasters said:
attack and defence skills lose their value late in the game (because your hero might have very high of those stats already thanks to enlightment and/or artefacts).


You can uninstall H5 Tote from Start menu->Control panel->Programs->H5Tote->Uninstall.
Edit: Sry if i was a bit rude, no bad feelings.

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Tiptoe_McGuffy
Tiptoe_McGuffy


Adventuring Hero
posted October 27, 2016 03:55 PM

XD that was harsh.

But yeah, Attack and Defense are always good, since they're calculated against the opponent's values, which will likely also be high. Keep in mind that 15 attack against 10 defense will have the same result as 35 attack against 30 defense—The defender's defense is subtracted from the attackers attack—the absolute values don't matter.

But as for artifacts, initiative on everything. HP is good on low tier troops, speed on golems is fun etc.
The rest mainly goes toward your strategy. If you're thinking offensively, attack, init, speed, and luck are good to distribute around. Defensively, defense and magic resistance can play the long game. I've been meaning to try a combination of Light Magic with Defense/Armor piercing artifacts to stay alive while reducing all the opponent's defenses until they eventually can't take a hit.

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markmasters
markmasters


Famous Hero
posted October 27, 2016 04:43 PM

zaio-baio said:
markmasters said:
attack and defence skills lose their value late in the game (because your hero might have very high of those stats already thanks to enlightment and/or artefacts).


You can uninstall H5 Tote from Start menu->Control panel->Programs->H5Tote->Uninstall.


You can boost attack and defence with objects on the map, artefacts and spells.

Try to do that with Initative, HP, damage except from a very few items.

Of course I would prefer 3 attack over 2 damage on titans, but there are better choices than that 3 attack still, but hey, yo must be proud on your witty comment

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 27, 2016 06:24 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 18:28, 27 Oct 2016.

Actually both Markmasters and Zaio-Baio (while rude) have fair points.

Adding base atk and def is always useful, but artifacts have other functions which cannot be normally accessed any other way.

So, while +3 atk is like +15% damage and surely nice, nothing can replace getting your titans (or wizards) to go first with +INIT

PS: The "Plqaying Inferno" has +4 QP and this zero? Discrimination!
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Tiptoe_McGuffy
Tiptoe_McGuffy


Adventuring Hero
posted October 27, 2016 10:29 PM
Edited by Tiptoe_McGuffy at 22:31, 27 Oct 2016.

I haven't played in a while but I'm pretty sure there isn't a damage artifact. Necklace, Attack perk, and Avenger perk were the only things that can directly raise damage afaik. (And week of might )
Am I wrong? Even +1 damage would be a huge boost for gremlins, and I would expect with enough knowledge you could get +2 or +3, which when combined with the above, could land you at 7/8 damage per gremlin.
That's so borked that I definitely would have tried it if it was possible.

EDIT:
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/heroes5/ability_artificer.shtml
Checked and didn't see it.

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HeroicDman81
HeroicDman81


Hired Hero
posted October 28, 2016 04:34 AM

Tiptoe_McGuffy said:
I haven't played in a while but I'm pretty sure there isn't a damage artifact. Necklace, Attack perk, and Avenger perk were the only things that can directly raise damage afaik. (And week of might )
Am I wrong? Even +1 damage would be a huge boost for gremlins, and I would expect with enough knowledge you could get +2 or +3, which when combined with the above, could land you at 7/8 damage per gremlin.
That's so borked that I definitely would have tried it if it was possible.

EDIT:
http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/heroes5/ability_artificer.shtml
Checked and didn't see it.


yea, the attk bonus for the arti is +3 which cuts through the armor of Def bonus. if you understand how the game works, every fight, the attacker's attk bonus applies to the defender's defense bonus. whatever is applied after that contributes to the Damage range bonus. if the attk is higher, than it contributes to the damage bonus, which applies the damage to the HP of the target. If the defense bonus is higher than the attk, than the remaining defense bonus reduces the Damage rating, before it's than applied to the HP.

the defense bonus arti is also +3 defense.

there also a protection from magic bonus for custom arti's.
      ... a bonus to luck.
      ... a bonus to morale.
      ... a bonus to piercing armor.
      ... a bonus to defense.
      ... a bonus to init.
      ... a bonus to speed.
aaand... maybe one or two more i can't recall from memory!

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zaio-baio
zaio-baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted October 28, 2016 06:32 PM
Edited by zaio-baio at 18:36, 28 Oct 2016.

Here is a list of Academy upgrades with miniarts that are most often used on large + rich maps lategame:

1. Gremlin Saboteurs - Att+Ini+Hp.
2. Obsidian Gargoyles - Def+Ini+Hp.
3. Steel Golems - Def+Ini+Hp.
4. Battle Mages - Att+Ini+Def.
5. Djinn Viziers - Att+Ini+Def.
6. Rakshasa Rajas - Att+Ini+Def.
7. Titans - Att+Ini+Def.

Feel free to discuss those choices

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kiryu133
kiryu133

Hero of Order
Highly illogical
posted October 28, 2016 07:16 PM
Edited by kiryu133 at 19:16, 28 Oct 2016.

NimoStar said:


PS: The "Plqaying Inferno" has +4 QP and this zero? Discrimination!


well, it's an old thread and I was only made mod rather recently but if you have any suggestions I'm all ears
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 28, 2016 09:11 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 21:16, 28 Oct 2016.

I saw losts of QP worthy posts but many pages back, already wqasted hours of my life reading them so not going back

* * *

Some people spoke of damage arties raising minimum and maximum damage, that indeed were considered OP for gremlins and gargoyles, strange. Perhaps they were on a previous game version?


______________________________________

If you happen to have outer dwellings for Golems, destructive magic + Magnetic Golems is a pretty good combinations, and things such as "Artificial glory" and other golem-related perks.

It's a shame there is no "Golem Converter" such as a Skeleton Converter or "Golemmancy" instead of Necromancy... if not, Golemgeddon or "golem meteor shower" with mark of the wizard ON YOUR OWN GOLEMS, divided on up to 7 stacks would sure be a killer combo.

What do you think of this strategy? Sure, it's no main-winner, but it's something your opponent will not be expecting... actually, it's greatest use is to defeat neutrals with zero losses (MotW on your golem stack, use direct damage to enemy and revive your own at the same time)
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Tiptoe_McGuffy
Tiptoe_McGuffy


Adventuring Hero
posted October 28, 2016 09:43 PM

I hadn't thought of MotW on your own golems! I've definitely used that strategy though, particularly in Zehir's TotE campaign. I remember clearing the whole map of the second (I think) mission with just golems + Armageddon.

This also makes me wonder if anyone has ever made legit competitive use of Elemental Gargoyles. MotW on gargoyles + Circle of Winter seems like a combo that's awesome on paper but hard to pull off+high opportunity cost in practice.

Ziao, your suggestions seem to be boring but practical. I feel like you're probably right, but the part of me that likes fun wants there to be good uses for the other options. I know initiative is supreme, but the Atk/Def parts of the artifacts seem like they could be more specialized. Would you ever put speed on golems? Armor piercing on battle-mages/rakshasas to hit multiple enemies? Luck on anything instead of attack? Morale on things if your hero had Empathy?
Just had a thought, MotW + Meteor shower on elemental gargoyles if they have a magic resistance arti seems fun. Or do they not increase earth vulnerability?

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zaio-baio
zaio-baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted October 29, 2016 12:56 PM
Edited by zaio-baio at 23:56, 29 Oct 2016.

Mark of the wizard shines mostly early game, when armies are small and mass spells are not too overwhelming. However, its more of a luxury skill, as many other skills have higher importance.
On small maps there are 2 best strategies for Academy and they both require Havez as starting hero - Warmachines + Summoning magic and Warmachines + Destructive magic.

1. Start with Havez. He is the best starting hero in the game, because he is the only hero that starts with 3 stacks of shooters and warmachine starting skill. On top of that he also starts with 4 500 gold balista and 750 gold ammo cart. A small downside is that he starts with 1 skill less.
2. Try to lvl up your warmachine tree as fast as possible - you need 3x ballista and 1st aid tent. If they are not showing pick advanced/expert artificer and 1-2 perks from it. Have in mind that magic mirror opens crappy perks in summoning/destructive skill tree, so try to stay away from it, at least early on. Dont pick any new skill, unless it is summoning or enlightenment.
3. Once you pick summoning or enlightenment your path is chosen - If you have picked summoning develop it to expert lvl while looking for the "Master of Conjuration perk". You need it to get the "Fire warriors" perk. Hero build should look like this:

1. Exp Artificer
2. Exp Warmachines + 3x balista + 1st aid tent.
3. Exp Summoning magic + Master of Conjuration + Fire warriors.
4. If you still havent finished the game go for luck/enlightenment.

^^ This is almost unbeatable WEEK 2 Rush. You also need Gremlin Saboteurs and Archmages. If your opponent has Exp warmashines + tent + ballista split your gremlins in 3 stacks - 2 small stacks of 30-40 gremlins and 1 stack that contains all remaining saboteurs. Use the small stacks to disable your opponents ballista and 1st aid tent.
Split the archmages in 3 stacks too, and fireball your opponent. You can also cast righteous might on your gremlins/fire elementals.
Gargoyles and Golems are good to have too, but they are not meant to deal dmg, use them to buy your ranged troops more time for shooting.
With this strategy its possible to get a stack of 50-60 Fire elementals week 2 as wizard, which is insane. Necros can get even more, but they dont have archmages to buff them .

Back to the Warmachines + Destro route:
1. Exp Artificer
2. Exp Warmachines + 3x balista + 1st aid tent
3. Exp enlightenment + arcane intuition/scholar. If you go for destructive you need to learn the fireball spell. You can learn it from your archmages via arcane intuition or from Nathir via scholar.
4. Exp Destructive
5. If the game in not finished - Exp Luck/Sorcery.

^^ Almost unbeatable week 2 combo. Use same army strategy as with Summoning magic. On rush map dont waste time building town hall, fort etc, you need upgraded gremlins + upgraded mages. Having upgraded gargs + golems is nice, but not high on the priority list. Mark of the wizard is not a must have either, better secure the combo and pick it afterwards.

Zaio-Baio's challenge:
Start as player 1 on "Art of strategy"(its ubi map), choose difficulty hard, pick Havez and:
Week 1 - kill the wolves at your teleport, then kill the spectral dragons and get the relic. Week 1 day 7 be at the stables near your teleport.
Week 2 - Clear the dwarven area in the underground, including the stacks of flamelords and rune patriarchs.

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boozuka
boozuka


Hired Hero
posted January 11, 2017 10:52 PM

Hi there! I'm thinking about playing Academy in next Lan game with friends. I'm not sure about it tho - can Academy beat strong might factions like Haven or Stronghold? Wizards have very small chance to get attack or defense points during leveling, also they have only 2% to get Attack or Defense skills :/ Sure they have high SP and knowledge, but how good are spells if enemy army is going to massacre your units before your spells may impact the battle? I havent actually played academy vs human players (only AI), that's why i'm asking - will Academy work?

PS:We are playing without rushing, everything is settled during late game heroes fights, so advices like "take Havez, rush and GG UZI" won't help much.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Tastes like chicken
posted January 11, 2017 11:20 PM

http://www.celestialheavens.com/homam-v/general/academy-guide-3-1
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zaio-baio
zaio-baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted January 12, 2017 01:02 AM
Edited by zaio-baio at 02:08, 12 Jan 2017.

boozuka said:
Hi there! I'm thinking about playing Academy in next Lan game with friends. I'm not sure about it tho - can Academy beat strong might factions like Haven or Stronghold? Wizards have very small chance to get attack or defense points during leveling, also they have only 2% to get Attack or Defense skills :/ Sure they have high SP and knowledge, but how good are spells if enemy army is going to massacre your units before your spells may impact the battle? I havent actually played academy vs human players (only AI), that's why i'm asking - will Academy work?

PS:We are playing without rushing, everything is settled during late game heroes fights, so advices like "take Havez, rush and GG UZI" won't help much.

Orcs and haven are very tough cookies lategame, you may easily get crushed. As a haven player ive played vs many good academy players and they all got destroyed when we had lategame fights. Academy has fine units, but the wizards are not really edged toward large maps and lategame fights. Wizard stats distribution is 10% att, 15% def, 30% sp, 45% knowledge, which means you wont have much might stats to work with lategame. And might stats rule when the armies are big. Plain and simple. Another weakness of academy is the low chance to get logistics - 2%, defense - 2%, attack - 2%. All 3 skills are vital and top picks for academy on large maps, yet they are extremely rare. No logistics means that your opponent will move a lot faster than you on the map - 50% faster or even more. If orcs/knights get Expert logistics + warpath they will have +30% more movement from expert logs and +10% more movement for each fight they win. If they fight more than 3-4 times/day the bonus gets insane - basically warpath gives more movement than expert logs. And more movement = more might stats as your opponent will visit more +att/def buildings than you. It also means more exp, more gold, more arts etc...
Defense is one of the best skills latagame, 30% reduction of melee dmg is a must have. You need it a lot, yet its very rare.
Attack is also very important - since its so hard to get as a wizard and since u need to get other rare skills there is a good chance that you will get attack either late or never - which means your opponent can pick attack + tactics and have a nice advantage on the battlefield.
On most maps you will lose either due to not getting logistics + warpath or due to not getting defense or due to not getting attack + tactics and getting charged and owned turn 1, or due to a combination of those. Its a rough game...
If you somewhat manage to get logistics + def + att + tactics + strong mini arts then you may put a good fight, but in general u need to outplay your opponent to win the lategame fight.
There are some fan made maps that try to make the game more balanced for big fights and academy is doing pretty good there. Basically maps that have limited gold so that haven cant train too much paladins, witch hut near starting castle that gives logistics, and some sylvanna trees that give + 1 lvl up and will help mentoring a strong knight hero to lead the wizard troops. And preferably no memory mentor building, because knights/orcs can abuse it and mentor out logs and war machines to get more might skills right before the final fight. Barbarians can even mentor out enlightenment and keep the stats - at lvl 30 thats 15 free stats, mostly attack and defense.

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boozuka
boozuka


Hired Hero
posted January 12, 2017 10:57 AM

Thank you for answering me in such short notice. I think i will go for inferno Late game gating will give me like 70% extra units without much effort, and with Demon Lords high attack... It will work just fine IMO
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Tastes like chicken
posted January 12, 2017 11:21 AM

I love that faction. Just be warned, they need warmachines to avoid a rough earlygame and they are generally not an easy race to play But both logistics and warmachines are easy to get so you can expand fast.
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zaio-baio
zaio-baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted January 12, 2017 01:29 PM
Edited by zaio-baio at 13:57, 12 Jan 2017.

boozuka said:
Thank you for answering me in such short notice. I think i will go for inferno Late game gating will give me like 70% extra units without much effort, and with Demon Lords high attack... It will work just fine IMO

Inferno will do a lot better vs orcs/humans lategame. Start with Deleb - she is by far the best demonlord. The timing of picking the skills is very important. It makes a huge difference if you have war machines as 1st skill or as 5th skill. You want the skills in this order:
1. War machines + 3x balista + tent. You need to pick hellfire to get 3x balista. Its really good idea to get it, else you will be getting offered plague tent the whole game.
2. Logistics - You need logistics as 2nd skill. War machines allow you to creep fast and logistics allow you to move more. War machines + logistics is the best starting combo on large maps. I suggest to get at least tent or balista perk and then pick logistics. Logs are a very common skill to demon lords, so you may refuse it the 1st time you see it. From logistics you want either swift mind or warpath. Overall its best to mix it up and keep your opponents guessing what u have - sometime swift might, another time warpath. Ofc if you can get insane value from warpath go for it every time .
3. As 3rd skill its very important to pick magic. Light or dark, thats what works best lategame. Inferno can make great use of both, however dark is a lot more common and inferno also has dark spells in the mage guild. Light magic is great, because mass buffs scale very well with gating, also light magic is unexpected as inferno's mage guild doesnt offer high lvl light spells and may or may not give you low lvl light spells. A weakness of the light magic is it that its army dependent - if you get charged and lose most of your units you wont be getting much value from mass buffs. Forget about destructive and summoning, they are valuable early-mid game and they also require a lot of sp to be effective. Anyways if the game gets long enough you can mentor a warlock or necro hero, get expert destructive + last stand with them and nuke the hell out of the opponents army. Just put 7 stacks of 2 imps and start nuking. Anyways it considered cheap play and you friends may not like it.
Dark magic is the safer choice, good perks are master of mind and master of curses. Also vs haven consider getting "Seal of Darkness". This perk combined with the mana drain from the imps may win you the game if the knight went for dark magic.
4. As 4th skill pick defence - its one of the strongest skills for lategame, definitely a must have. Dont leave it for last as you may not get it. From def good perks are power of endurance and last stand. Both have a great synergy with gating.
5. 5th slot is normally for enlightenment, but you can pick luck/leadership. Attack + tactics would be great but its unlikely that you will be offered the tactics perk, because you will already have many skills opened. If the map has memory mentor remove the war machine skills and the logistics skills and go for attack + tactics + power of speed and also enlightenment, luck or leadership.
When playing on the dark inferno side you want to possibly drain all your opponents mana and wear his army down with dark spells. So stay back, cast mass dark spells and gate with your units(unless you have a good reason not to ). If you find a good spot to get a lot of value from puppet master/frenzy go for it, but have in mind that its normally better to cast mass spells instead, as they cost only 1/2 turn to cast. If you pick tactics dont use them. You want tactics only to block your opponents tactics and make it harder for him to charge you on turn 1.
Vs knights is best to counter his mass light buffs with the corresponding mass dark curses. If you happen to play before the knight hero its possible that he may counter your mass dark/light spells. In those cases its best to start with mass confusion/mass endurance, because they cant be countered. Dont overvalue puppet master and frenzy and have in mind that they can be resisted or cured with lay on hands. Even if the knight has 0 mana he can still use divine guidance on a paladin stack and remove a puppet/frenzy spell.

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frostysh
frostysh


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
posted January 12, 2017 02:39 PM
Edited by frostysh at 14:51, 12 Jan 2017.

Well I have some experience in multiplayer (default ubisoft maps, Heroic difficulty) , by Inferno against Academy. And I can say that anything that is not Deleb will be annihilated. Well, perhaps Grok can try to fought a monsters fast, with his teleport trick, but this is will be "only the one mistake and game over for you", as usually with Inferno. . .

Inferno (without Deleb) is the most downbalanced faction in the game, its sux hard against Academy. If the Academy mage have Sorcery (usually they have it), the Inferno army will squashed by rain of horrific spells. Only one hope - Imps, but this is depends on Luck. If you will lost/or have not enough Imps to drain Mage' energy - Inferno in the bad trouble. . .
In the late game, Small Artifacts will make Academy super hardcore to beat by Inferno.

My point is next - if you want to win against Academy, do not choose Inferno, or pray for Deleb rush. .

P.S. Thanx again to user zaio-baio for such post, I have no play for Deleb, but I will use this strategy in game with Nymus vs Academy, I have there Light Magic - indeed, its very effective.
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