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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Temple of Ashan > Thread: Heroes 5 Strategy: Playing Academy Faction
Thread: Heroes 5 Strategy: Playing Academy Faction This thread is 36 pages long: 1 ... 8 9 10 11 12 ... 20 30 36 · «PREV / NEXT»
Duncan
Duncan


Famous Hero
The Pathfinder
posted October 20, 2007 07:03 AM

Hmm... having reread these posts, if I may conclude our discussion:

ban Ingvar, ultimates are not for multiplayer; but nice (or fun?) to get in adventuring single/campaign maps.

Is that what we've been trying to reach gentlemen?
____________
But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted October 20, 2007 10:22 AM

I think it's ok that ultimates are campaign-based. Because they are freakin powerful (I'm talking about elven luck here!)

most ppl take ossir anyway so it's ok.

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Nirual
Nirual


Famous Hero
Imbued Ballista
posted October 20, 2007 10:48 AM

Quote:
No, it's been like that. Plus +1 Att & Def every 2 levels if I'm not mistaken. That additional HP is the ridiculous part, other creatures-specialized heroes don't get that, only additional Att & Def.


Some actually get a special bonus in addition to the A/D bonus, but none of them is so powerful like giving an already amazingly sturdy tier 1 more endurance.
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In ur base killing ur doods... and raising them as undeads.

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted October 20, 2007 11:16 AM
Edited by feluniozbunio at 11:19, 20 Oct 2007.

Boost of atb for centaurs from centaur commander is also very good. They can take down Elven archers before they act

Orson is also good. Maybe he doesnt have anny addons but you have necromancy and can produse hordes of zombies. Ingvars ability isnt broken.

Its adding +1/+1 to tier 1 stack is amasing. Thats why Havez is so good too.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Tastes like chicken
posted October 20, 2007 11:27 AM

Yeah but he also gives them hp. Add that to a unit with shieldwall and a naturally good defense and the good boost they gain from battle frenzy..
I just see that they do good damage and die hard.
____________
Being human is a roller coaster ride of emotions during rainstorms and sunshine, sprinkled with moments when you can almost reach the stars.

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted October 20, 2007 11:35 AM
Edited by feluniozbunio at 11:36, 20 Oct 2007.

Yes thats true of course. I am keep saying that since HoF release
Now i can record a replay 100 shieldguards vs 50 archangels

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Tastes like chicken
posted October 20, 2007 12:06 PM

You know I'd like to see that
It just occured to me that their new alternatives are better suited for angels. They get the defense bonus regardless if the enemy is a flier or no.
____________
Being human is a roller coaster ride of emotions during rainstorms and sunshine, sprinkled with moments when you can almost reach the stars.

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Nemira
Nemira


Adventuring Hero
posted October 21, 2007 01:10 AM

Hey again! Since this is Academy strat thread guess my questions fit in here :>

Guys I am having some troubles understanding some of your posts / tactics, maybe because am not used to many of the terms you are using and because I am a little shy to play online since I play this game more into a RPG manner than a pure strategy one :>

So reading your wonderfull threads and gathering info and ideeas I decide to put them in practice in my games vs computer to make some courage to play online at a point :> *just hit hard level and gosh it is hard indeed!*

First is a question about counterspell. I played a normal map Former Friends *I guess that's the name*, and as soon as 2nd day I was able to spy on my oponents *I let computer random and only choose myself town and hero * and was 2 warlocks and 1 wizard. So I sayd to myself, that's a must to get counterspell! So I did! During month 2 week 2, one of the warlocks headed my way after breaking in middle. I had a bit superior army as I decided to caputre all mines, then head for underground riches while developing my town and "creeping* with my hero, but the warlock hero was 2 levels higher than mine. Anyway, I head over to engage the intruder, my hero Jhora *mispell?* turn comes 1st, and I activate counterspell! Toasted I say in my mind grining toward the enemy hero. Well guess what, he casted a chain lightning *could be an empowered one, I diden't forgot to read the logs* without CS to trigger! I had aproximate 60 mana when fight started as I intercepted him after killing some stuff, and he had 100. Could it be possible that his CL *empowered I guess* to cost more than 60 mana so I wasn't able to CS it? Or is possible for him to have some talents to ignore my CS? And, is CS effect permanent for the fight, or you need to cast it again everytime your hero turn comes again? Thanks!

Now 2nd question about academy :> I did read about the MMR strategy but I guess that only works on small maps with 2 players only? So I decided to go for sumoning / light magic, also had luck and enlightment. Not sure if is best setup for a wizard, but none the less I managed to win the map on hard with it. And my question is! Since most peeps advice against titans on small maps, and rakashi (?) cost quite some, and are not so good without upgrade *maybe am wrong here, just personal opinion*, djinis tend to be targeted first most of times and get killed most of times at 1/3 into fight... What is the backbone unit of academy in your games on small / normal maps?

Now a question about order of spells to use in a fight :> Which is very confusing for me most of times :> If you fight another magic hero, do you start by buffing up your troops 1st, disabling / weakening theirs, doing direct damage, or summoning? I mean of course is fight related, enemy faction / hero / units layout will lead to a different action, but this can't be that heratic, there must be an aproximate rule of thumb which you experienced players am sure to posses :> Please share :>

And finally, MoTW confuses me to some aspect. I did make out that any damage / curse / buff spell I cast on MoTW target has it's effect doubled. But am sure I spoted in this thread something about MoTW + elementals / phoenix / phantom image? And does MoTW work with aoe spells like mass haste / mass weakness, aoe damage spells? Please share all uses of MoTW that are possible, am sure I am missing some important stuff and not utilise it at 100% capacity :>

Many thanks, keep this discussions going they are very very interesting, fascinating and captivating!

Thanks!

-Nemi

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Tastes like chicken
posted October 21, 2007 01:33 AM

Maybe the shadow witches tried to cast first Then the counterspell ends and the warlock is free to cast.

MMR doesn't work in small maps but normal and even large if you modify the strategy a bit. In large maps where you can break week 3 or so.
There is not really a backbone, you just use gremlins, gargoyles, golems and mages. Colossi are the only that could be considered a 'backbone' since you build them week 2.
The idea is that your hero wins the battles, not your army. And indeed if you summon a phoenix on week 2 you are pretty much victorious. Combinations like mass confusion, frenzy, motw + implosion etc are just hard to tackle early but the main thing is the phoenix that you'll get at least half the time. No matter what happens you will almost always have a good arsenal of spells - library is a good failsafe.

Actually mots does not work with summons but it does work with phantom forces. It will not create two clones of the same unit though they can create two different ones, say a clone for titans and one for djinns. If you mark one unit and cast the spell on another both get the spell. So you can either use a doubly effective spell(a doubly healing resurrection or doubly damaging icebolt) or have the spell cast on two targets.
Note that aoe now works with motw.
The spell will hit the designated space and the space over the marked unit.
A fireball over a small unit will hit all it and its adjacent squares. On large units the tiles to the left and to the front will be also hit. Firewall is cast on the front row of large units with a tile extending to the left so avoid the left sides of marked units if you plan to use destructive magic.
Firetrap is also affected by motw. Mines appear both in the targeted space and over the marked unit friendly or hostile. Cast over a hostile unit it will summon double the amount of mines.



Circle of winter has another funny effect. If centered on a small unit it will never harm it but hit its adjacent tiles instead. As for meteor shower over large units it will hit the front row, one tile to the right and two to the left.

These are considering 3.0 version.
____________
Being human is a roller coaster ride of emotions during rainstorms and sunshine, sprinkled with moments when you can almost reach the stars.

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roy-algriffin
roy-algriffin


Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
posted October 21, 2007 01:47 AM

Does that mean that circle of winter is the first ever defensive destructive spell?
____________
"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Tastes like chicken
posted October 21, 2007 01:50 AM

You could say that A good idea to use your elemental gargoyles with.
____________
Being human is a roller coaster ride of emotions during rainstorms and sunshine, sprinkled with moments when you can almost reach the stars.

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted October 21, 2007 03:04 AM
Edited by feluniozbunio at 03:10, 21 Oct 2007.

Chain lightning costs above 20 so empowered costs above 40 so counterspell need 80 minimum. I think i did all calculations right im after part at the moment and i could miscalculated somehting.

Motw is a great ability that allows you to duplicate spells. Practically whatever targer or area spells you cast on cerain units will be copied by motw and you cast 2 spells simultaneously (paying mana for both)

Basically when youre academy you want to win game with phoenix/summon elementals or destructive magic if thats fast game or with creatures (equiped with mini artifacts)along with light magic(or dark magic) if you play large map. spell order can be very different in each game. You need to be aware of many circumstances and pick right spell.

"backbone' of academys army is gargoyles golems and gremlins. These are one of the best units for their levels and they are very powerful. Djins you use to suicide attack on a most danerous stack first turn. mages are there to kill neutrals and you use them as shooters vs human opponent(or ccastes if thats a fast game- this is because of non linear spellpower for creatures). Most goodf players skip rakashas and build titans. Rakashas may be good but you need gold for titans. Titans have better synergy with rest of your army(they shoot) Basically whole academy concept is about shooting and being defensive while casting many weird spells(you can use any school you like when you are academy)

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted October 21, 2007 10:06 AM

Rakshasas aren't very effective, just like savage treants imho. Takes too long for their turn to come, and they have to use it to activate their special, which takes another bit of time. When they are finally ready for action, the battle is over or near over. Savage treants are rarely targeted so they may be of any use in the end, but rakshasas are sniped right after titans and djinns, so..

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Nemira
Nemira


Adventuring Hero
posted October 21, 2007 11:52 AM

Thanks for in-depth replies guys! I was somehow deluded that when I cast MoTW on a target I must direct target it with attack spells sort of an empower spell for wizard for better effect. This opens quite some possibilities!

And I tought CS only affects enemy hero, now that you mentioned enemy creatures as well, this brings a new variable to formulae, so I must pay atention to ATB and find oportunate moment to cast CS!

Another question if you don't mind :> I tried to play with haven / sylvan as well, and they seem to have some interesting synergies in their armies, troops complementing eachother very well, but, I hit a brick wall with haven in a recently game.... I was playing a normal map with 8 players on hard, was taging mines and building my economy / dwellings, ignored magic guild above lvl 1 because of resources needed for other stuff, and was happy creeping with ~40 marks, 20+ squires and 10 imperial griffs. Then blue player, warlock, with army composed of few / several creatures, some assasins / blood furies, 2 shadow witches, 6 deep hydras, attacks me. Oh well, shouldn't be hard I sayd, I can outmanuevre his troops, and kill them before they can cause any major harm. And *drum rolls* his hero just Ice Bolted my marksmen twice, then squires, then griffs... while I was not able to do anything about it <.<

Sylvan can get magic resistance fast, and they have unicorns with nice aura for resist magic. What can haven do in such situations? It seems to me that both town types depend more on army than on their hero, unlike mage classes as necro / warlock / wizard. So if a caster is ringing at your doorstep in month 1... are any ways arround this? Can't buy arties in town, no magic resist / dmg reduction arties in my explored area...

I tought all factions have an equal chance in a given game, and there are tactics and counter tactics to oponent moves, some predictable, others lucky call of course. And am sure in a mp game the enemy knows exactly what troops / spells you rely on and will always hit where it hurts :>

So should I drop the might factions on small / normal maps where vicinity with other players is close, and opt for magic oriented heroes / factions to have a chance?

Thanks!

-Nemi

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted October 21, 2007 12:17 PM
Edited by feluniozbunio at 14:11, 21 Oct 2007.

Its hard for inexperienced player to win a game on a small map with might faction against magic faction, its possible tho(i did it many times) You need to have a good plan because otherwise game ends just like you described. I personally like to play might factions as  i would play magic faction if its very small map or i get war machines. The latter might wont work in TotE coz balista is much more vulnerable now but its just a guess. Basically units dont play much role in very small maps. On medium maps with proper playing you can build enough army to withstand enemy magic and overwhelm opponent. Skils like magic resistance wont help you much in short game. They are just a slight bonus but you cant consider them any serious defense against magic(excluding shatter magic, that one is pretty solid).

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dschingi
dschingi


Famous Hero
the guy with the dragon golem
posted October 21, 2007 12:35 PM

Yes war machines help here. You can't get magic resistance very high, but it's better than nothing, with a little luck it can save you.
About countering a ballista I'm not sure that it's so easy as felunio says, okay you can try cold death, but first you need to get an ice spell and second you don't even know if the enemy has a good ballista unless he starts with war machines. Other than cold death I don't see an easy way to destroy its 1100hp without "wasting" creature attacks. Maybe with a Ranger, since imbuing has become better now as you don't waste a turn imbuing...
If the game is not ultra-short I would still rely more on might, try to max damage and initiative with luck and morale.

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NIght_Heaven
NIght_Heaven


Adventuring Hero
Lonely star in heaven dream
posted October 21, 2007 01:47 PM

Quote:
I would say trust feluniozbunio, guys. He's one of the best ToHers. I also think the orcish route to ultimate is not very good, btw



If the Orcs ultimate path is not very good..then the wizards ultimate is completely wasted time. Note that the wizards have now the most usless path to ultimates.Orcs are near Academy when it somes for usless skills lol.

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted October 21, 2007 02:13 PM

Balista now has 550 hp and all factions have cold death.

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Nemira
Nemira


Adventuring Hero
posted October 21, 2007 03:36 PM

Yuck! I played again same map, former friends, with Haven on my side and was oposed to inferno / academy x 2. This time I believe I developed myself a bit better, as I was 1st to break in middle, but I lost some of the troops in the process. Mainly when I made the decision I want that gold mine, despite it was guarded by lots of archmages. I had 4 cavaliers, 1 angel *I flagged the haven military post 1st before heading to mine*, 30 marksmen and 20 squires *I mainly use those guys for ranged shield on marks, and because of my plan of development in town, I decided to save funds by not purchasing more of them, and focus on geting cavaliers instead*. Obviously, they killed the cavaliers and some archers, but I managed to tag the gold mine which prooved very good.
1 week almost later, when I returned to middle with reinforcements decided to flag rest of gold mines, I get rushed by inferno hero. Deleb. She diden't had better stats or troops than mines. And I was wondering how good her balista could be. This time I had some inquisitors as well *not many, just 2 stacks of small numbers to buff other units*, 2 angels, 4 cavaliers, more archers, and some imperial griffs. Well for the very first time when I play this game *got heroes and HoF with all patches, but am generaly playing in HoF my games, more maps *, I had that Errrr.... what a hell is that? expression when Deleb balista fired at my grouped stack of marks+inqs+squires. They where slaughtered! When I right-clicked on balista for info it had somewhere arround 8x-9x dmg.... add the fireball or fire effect thingy.... And that basterd Deleb shoot some of my troops then fleed before I could finish his last troops with my angels and cavaliers!! Outrageous, what else can I say :>

Her balista was better than a stack of lvl 7 upgraded creatures! What can you do vs such a nasty thing <.< And of course balista was protected by succis and pit fiends so no melee hits on it from cavaliers or angels :> Maybe only an empowered implossion from a skilled warlock can finish that balista off, nothing else I can think off at that phase of development / army strength in game :>

I really hope I can develop my skills a littel better until ToE hits my country, which will be by the end of next week, as I could see from your wonderfull posts that there are many many changes to game mechanics, units and so on. I still have yet to learn and accomodate with the current ones! *sobs* :>

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feluniozbunio
feluniozbunio


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted October 21, 2007 03:45 PM
Edited by feluniozbunio at 15:46, 21 Oct 2007.

So now you know that war machines and magic are powerful in short game
Its tough for castles like haven to perform good in such maps. Maybe try using necro academy or warlocks, they are much better in that type of games.

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