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Pomo
Famous Hero
The lone peasant
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posted May 02, 2007 04:11 PM |
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Edited by Pomo at 16:13, 02 May 2007.
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Angelito - I'm not an intelligence expert, so my understanding of IQ is not complete, however my understanding was that IQ is largely heritable, but partly due to environmental factors, including formal education. If there is someone who knows the area in more detail, I'd love to hear more - even to be contradicted 
In response to the horoscope example; why do men feel that if they get up in the middle of a close football match to go to the bathroom, their team will inevitably lose in their absence? In short, I don't think your example is a good one.
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linkTouched by His Noodly Appendage
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted May 02, 2007 05:23 PM |
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Quote:
In response to the horoscope example; why do men feel that if they get up in the middle of a close football match to go to the bathroom, their team will inevitably lose in their absence? In short, I don't think your example is a good one.
Which men? Never heard about that to be honest. And I am a football fan. But u think this is comparable to horoscope and their believers? Horoscope is a worldwide phenomenon. Not only the "standard" horoscope for each starsign, but also those daily/weekly horoscopes. Like in winter u can read on virgin 3rd decade (and ONLY there!): "Don't go out today, u may catch a cold" 
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Pomo
Famous Hero
The lone peasant
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posted May 03, 2007 12:59 AM |
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Well, it's pretty common that people will think that they have an influence over things that they clearly don't (football is just an example). My point was simply that if you look, you'll find other examples of illogical beliefs that are just as widespread as horoscopes, and not specific to women.
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linkTouched by His Noodly Appendage
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted May 03, 2007 08:21 AM |
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They don't want to evolve and YET many of those people travel to countries like holland and belgium, just to try to force their believes on us. (By building those damned allah-moskees/churches in our country)
is it just me or does Ashrah not have the basic understanding of religions around the world.
ISRAEL would never have mosques, as they are Jewish and would have synagoges. also, they are fighting the Muslim palistinians, who would have mosques.
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Really the noah/boat story began like a simple israel flood, but they turned it into a whole-world flood and they still believe such thing happend. They are not bright.
it was an israel flood that Noahs arc was based on, and it was pretty devastating. also, to them, that was the whole world, so it did seem like a global event.
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Also some of those rules in those countries make me puke. No gay marriage, no female priests.
ect ect ect
actually, i met a female Imam (islamic priest). she was also married to another Imam.
agreed that gay marriages haven't been allowed, but on the other hand, they were only allowed in britian last year, so it is a relatively new thing to have. many religions look down on it, but it could all change.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted May 03, 2007 08:52 AM |
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@Bixie:
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They don't want to evolve and YET many of those people travel to countries like holland and belgium, just to try to force their believes on us. (By building those damned allah-moskees/churches in our country)
is it just me or does Ashrah not have the basic understanding of religions around the world.
ISRAEL would never have mosques, as they are Jewish and would have synagoges. also, they are fighting the Muslim palistinians, who would have mosques.
All monotheistic religions stem from Israel and that area.
@Pomo:
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In response to the horoscope example; why do men feel that if they get up in the middle of a close football match to go to the bathroom, their team will inevitably lose in their absence? In short, I don't think your example is a good one.
That's a big generalization
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agreed that gay marriages haven't been allowed, but on the other hand, they were only allowed in britian last year, so it is a relatively new thing to have. many religions look down on it, but it could all change.
britain is a religious country, though. 
The only time it could change is when they stop believing. After all, it's because of gay marriages that god has caused climate change.
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John says to live above hell.
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pomo
Famous Hero
The lone peasant
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posted May 03, 2007 08:56 AM |
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Edited by pomo at 08:58, 03 May 2007.
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Quote:
@Pomo:
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In response to the horoscope example; why do men feel that if they get up in the middle of a close football match to go to the bathroom, their team will inevitably lose in their absence? In short, I don't think your example is a good one.
That's a big generalization
Yeah true , I'm not trying to say that everybody thinks that, but it is quite a common psychological illusion that you will 'jinx' something in such a way.
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britain is a religious country, though.
The only time it could change is when they stop believing. After all, it's because of gay marriages that god has caused climate change.
LOL, I'd be interested to see the source for that one
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted May 03, 2007 04:59 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 17:06, 03 May 2007.
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...
@TitaniumAlloy:
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True.
However there is strong evidence for magnetic field.
We even say that we came up with the concept for it.
We don't attribute it to someone else when it is quite clearly ours.
And who attributed belief to? Religious people believe in God, just as you 'trust' the magnetic field concept.
By the way, I don't remember humans creating the magnetic field -- it is clearly not ours. The concept (or 'model) may be, but perhaps the true 'explanation' of the field would be incomprehensible and illogical. We can't explain the true magnetic field as we can't know it. Same with God.
However we do say "magnetic field does this" "magnetic field does that" without knowing exactly why, but merely a simple how. Why do you think that the magnetic field concept sounds more plausible than God? Just because it is logical for you? Remember that drunk people find 3+3 = 33 a logical equation as well
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Are you serious?
She didn't mean literally SEE. Come on. Play fair now.
But what then? What can you see? Proofs? What are proofs?
A proof is not considered a proof if you cannot comprehend it, right? So that means, whether something acts in a way, until we understand that proof, we claim it doesn't exist. However what we claim doesn't make it true. What makes you so sure we can understand everything?
See = light waves? or what other means rather than literally?
perhaps spiritually, however that goes more with God. I don't know of any other 'seeing'.
Remember that the 'effects' of something (invisible magnetic fields, etc etc) are still intercepted by one of our senses. If not, we wouldn't know about them (without perhaps belief in them ).
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I wish you would finally understand that we are not claiming that seeing is the sole proof of existence, or any other five senses.
They help, sure, but haven't claimed that they are vital.
But because you can't see god, and you're so sure that he exists (for some inexplicable reason on your behalf), you seem to reject senses so much by portraying them as almost ignorant and naiive, the very things that define your life.
I prefer my mind to define my life.
I said that limiting yourself to only what you can perceive (aka five senses) makes you naive. It's like borrowing your head in the sand and, surely if you cannot see and don't want to believe the 'outside world' then it won't exist like taking the blue pill
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But having proof before you trust things can be very wise IMO, and not negative at all.
I still see you consider 'proof' as something 'not-connected-with-senses', which is not true.
Proof = able to read/hear/feel/touch/etc something and make 'sense' out of it.
How could you prove Light Waves if you didn't have eyes (and no humans had)??
You dream of a monster, for example -- is it not a proof that it exists? What's a proof then? I know, a proof is something that uses your five senses to 'see' it (be it hear/see/touch/etc). If you had no senses, you couldn't prove anything at all.
Proofs are largely connected to senses. That is also why they can be ignorant (proofs I mean).
Ok, take it like this:
Suppose humans were a specie without eyes, without ears, and without noses and mouthes. The only sense they had was the touching, feeling.
So far so good? Tell me then, how can you (as a 'superior human' with five senses instead of one) prove to them that light waves exist? Should they take your word? Do you think they will?
Atheists among them will claim you are completely crazy and imagine things. Light Waves = magic and fiction (as Ashrah put it) for these humans in our story.
Yet even if they cannot 'prove' it, that doesn't mean Light Waves don't exist. And some of them could have hope for 'light', which could translate into a religion for light.
Those ignorant will claim they waste their time. Or will simply find these light-believers completely unwise. Like Ashrah put it.
However in this scenario it would be completely the opposite. And by the way, how do you know this 'real world' scenario we live is different?
In short, all the things that you call 'logical' are actually a basic psychological thing in your mind -- just as those handicapped humans without 4 senses called light illogical (yet you call it logical), but they could have a different sense, something you cannot comprehend.
So whatever your understanding of 'logic' it's an ignorant idea to limit yourself to it -- like, if something isn't logical for you, it certainly will be crap and fairy tales
EDIT: Suppose now that 'religious' people (in the real world) have a new sense -- the spiritual sense. This is only an example.
Of course you start claiming how can it be illogical and fairy tales, etc. If 99% of the population were blind people, they would believe your 'colors' to be fairy tales as well.
Also tell me how can you explain colors to blind people. With metaphors I bet (perhaps you recall that word from some earlier posts).
@Ashrah:
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They don't want to evolve and YET many of those people travel to countries like holland and belgium, just to try to force their believes on us. (By building those damned allah-moskees/churches in our country)
What makes you think you are better than them? They (probably) think the same to you.
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Also some of those rules in those countries make me puke. No gay marriage, no female priests.
Ok ok:
we humans have usually defined what is morally correct and what's not. For example, a crime is considerent imorally.
Why makes you think gays are morally correct? Perhaps this 'morality' factor has a significant importance in the 'rules' of the worlds (I am talking about God's worlds like Heaven/Hell). Of course those need not correspond to human's own morality definition.
Maybe it is morally incorrect to be gay, by our creator's desire (God or whatever). Just as is crime, for example, morally incorrect by our 'humanic' desire (well at least, some of us).
Of course you may consider gay to be morally correct. Remember that psycho killers think crime is morally correct as well.
Also this does not directly mean being gay is wrong by religion. Maybe there is a greater, much more complicated (or even incomprehensible) morality factor behind this. Being gay may not make it 'bad' directly, but some actions afterwards perhaps.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted May 03, 2007 06:31 PM |
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a man who lies with another man should be stoned...
it helps, that's all i'm saying.
i think that we fear the unnatural too much. "Gay, two men together, that isn't natural, it should be man and woman". we become used to it in the end.
when something new arrives, it is often considered a radical new step, for better or for worse. eventually it dies down into the background.
____________
Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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SwampLord
Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
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posted May 03, 2007 08:51 PM |
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Do you believe everything that is told to you in school textbooks, etc? Remember, 30 years ago they had their own idea of the atom, which they believed was correct. 30 years from now, they'll have a different one.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted May 04, 2007 05:31 PM |
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exactly, that is a point i was trying to get across!
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted May 04, 2007 07:09 PM |
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Ashrah, now you're really not understanding my point.
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You talk about gods words? Did you ever heard those words? You compare gays with mass murderers, thatīs a crime in my eyes.
No, I did NOT compare them.
I mentioned that we defined what is morally correct and not. Including murder, for example, which is considered imorally. Ask yourself this: why is murder imorally?
Of course it is, but the answer is not straight. This is no comparison. Now ask yourself why do you think being gay is not imorally as well?
The thing is, many things are imorally, some of them are not so "fatal" as murder, but they are still imorally -- that doesn't mean they are the same as a crime. So you can't compare them, even between imoral things.
Imorally includes swearing too, which is obviously not the same as a murder. Why do you think I said gay=murderers?
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And I never said that light is magic. You twist words like a dove.
When I was referring to you, I simply used the words "magic and fiction" from you -- not the context but merely only the phrase. The phrase can have a different meaning depending on context. I only borrowed your words, not the context
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted May 04, 2007 08:35 PM |
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Imorally also means believing everything an old dusty books tells you to, as books are imorally too.
You can say that about everything in life, so the point is?
The point is that being gay might or might not be "good". (good as morally correct in this context). About the books, well again it's subjective, I don't consider books imorally.
Morality is defined subjective. Not everyone agrees murder is wrong (for example pshycho criminals). Probably gays are unnatural, etc.. so they are morally wrong perhaps.
Allowing absolute-freedom to someone does not mean that it's necessary a good thing to do (and good = morally correct, not pleasure). That means criminals are not 'free' because they are not allowed to murder. The idea is, pleasure does not always equal a good-thing in the meaning of the world/nature/God/whatever (which relates to morality).
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And magic and light are two very very different things, of course there is light/magic but we arenīt living in a world we made up ourselves.
I see you don't get my point (by the way it has nothing to do with Heroes 5 Light magic school ).
I'll explain this short: Suppose you lack ears, right? In fact everyone except ME lacks ears. Then you'll say Sound is magically because I am the only human with ears which can hear. It's the same thing. You'll say sound is my own "invented thing".
btw this was only an example
Another example as above would be like having a "spiritual sense", but only religious people probably can 'feel' it. It's not so hard to believe (even if it is not true).
btw this was only an example as well
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Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 05, 2007 02:02 AM |
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Maybe it would be easier if those of you who simply wish to fight with each other could make yourselves one thread - and write there.
It seems we continuosly have the same arguements between the same people continuing over different threads, and its ruining both of them.
I agree.
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"There are three types of lies; lies, damn lies, and statistics."
So you are saying that the devil is a statistic?
I'm not sure I know what you're asking. I was just referring to the well-known saying as a reminder of how careful one should be with statistics.
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SwampLord
Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
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posted May 05, 2007 04:41 AM |
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Quote:
Being gay = good, if it was not for them (me for instance) we would be overcrowded by now.
It's gaia (earths) own system to prevent over-crowdnes.
And what pleasure do gays with people like you and necrophile on their heels? They are hunted down by every religion so they don't have any fun in life.
And by PLAYING they are hetero-sexuals they would live a lie, they would lie to their wives and men.
It's just wrong to place lies above human beings.
Debatable.(the bolded part.) It's not that huge a difference. I don't have a problem with gay people, but if you purport to be the saviors of the world, then I do.
Also, if everyone is gay, then we die as a species. Not so good.
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jlewlotr
Hired Hero
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posted May 05, 2007 05:03 AM |
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In response to this general topic, not necessarily any recent posts...
Personally, I believe in God. It might be out of "blind faith", but I don't think that we can fully understand something from just "seeing" and "touching". It seems very limiting to me, to think that our five senses is all there are, and that at lesat one of them can percieve anything that exists. Within the vastness of the universe, shouldn't there be things we cannot detect and perceive, since all of human history has been limited to this planet and our senses have only been attuned to what we encounter here? Why do we assume that we are the ultimate beings in the universe and have minds with the capability to comprehend everything? From a scientific standpoint, that doesn't seem very likely to me.
Lastly, I think feelings, values, morals, beliefs or whatever, go deeper than just having been raised that way. I never had religious education drilled into me, but I did feel interested in it, even compelled. And I feel that my sense of right and wrong is very personalized, not necessarily thrust upon me, and coming from within. I believe because I feel it, not with my five senses, but with my consciousness. Honest.
Anyway, a few sidenotes:
I believe that God and evolution are not mutually exclusive.
Religion can save you, but it is by no means a guarantee.
I also believe that deeds in life hold much more weight than beliefs, under the judgment of God. (Although one kinda paves the way for the other).
Just my opinions. Cool post by the way.
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted May 05, 2007 08:30 AM |
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And who attributed belief to? Religious people believe in God, just as you 'trust' the magnetic field concept.
It's not debateable whether there is something like a magnetic field.
I don't 'trust' it.
I don't take it for granted either.
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By the way, I don't remember humans creating the magnetic field -- it is clearly not ours. The concept (or 'model) may be, but perhaps the true 'explanation' of the field would be incomprehensible and illogical. We can't explain the true magnetic field as we can't know it. Same with God.
Exactly, we came up with the concept of a magnetic field. We examined it, and found our theories to be accurate. We gathered evidence. We ran tests, experiments. But we don't worship it.
God is similar, not the same. We did come up with the idea of god, thought it sounded pretty cool 'heaven n **** yo' and that was it. Now millions of people devote their life to it.
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However we do say "magnetic field does this" "magnetic field does that" without knowing exactly why, but merely a simple how. Why do you think that the magnetic field concept sounds more plausible than God? Just because it is logical for you? Remember that drunk people find 3+3 = 33 a logical equation as well
God doesn't do anything. He doesn't need explaining.
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But what then? What can you see? Proofs? What are proofs?
It's a figure of speech. Don't take things out of context.
Saying 'don't you see?' while explaining something to a blind man isn't a stupid question.
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A proof is not considered a proof if you cannot comprehend it, right?
They are two unrelated things. If we cannot comprehend it we wouldn't be deciding whether it was a proof or not.. it wouldn't be proving anything to the people who can't understand it, if that's what you mean.
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What makes you so sure we can understand everything?
Why do you so easily give up trying?
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See = light waves? or what other means rather than literally?
See can me synonymous for 'understand' in modern english.
But it's not REALLY important to this topic.
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perhaps spiritually, however that goes more with God. I don't know of any other 'seeing'.
Clearly.
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Remember that the 'effects' of something (invisible magnetic fields, etc etc) are still intercepted by one of our senses. If not, we wouldn't know about them (without perhaps belief in them ).
We can see the effects of them, yes.
What's your point?
We don't see the effects of god..
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I prefer my mind to define my life.
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I said that limiting yourself to only what you can perceive (aka five senses) makes you naive.
I'm not doing this.
ALL IM SAYING is that seeing (or feeling or whatever) something makes it easier to believe in it.
If you have no reason to believe in something that cannot possibly affect you, what's the point in devoting your life to it?
'because of glory and honour and love and passion and happiness and holy spirit and heaven and eternal peace'
throwing a whole lot of positive-sounding words into a book doesns't justify it.
but it sure gets people to belive
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It's like borrowing your head in the sand and, surely if you cannot see and don't want to believe the 'outside world' then it won't exist like taking the blue pill
Yes it will.
Scroll up and you'll see that I agree that some things exists which you can't see.
For christs sake.
And plus you would have seen the rest of the world before you buried your head in the sand.
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How could you prove Light Waves if you didn't have eyes (and no humans had)??
You couldn't. You wouldn't know they existed. They wouldn't affect you.
You'd have no reason to even think about them.
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You dream of a monster, for example -- is it not a proof that it exists?
No... 
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What's a proof then? I know, a proof is something that uses your five senses to 'see' it (be it hear/see/touch/etc). If you had no senses, you couldn't prove anything at all.
No you couldn't. You wouldn't be alive.
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Proofs are largely connected to senses. That is also why they can be ignorant (proofs I mean).
Senses = ignorance, now?
Wow. 
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Ok, take it like this:
Suppose humans were a specie without eyes, without ears, and without noses and mouthes. The only sense they had was the touching, feeling.
So far so good? Tell me then, how can you (as a 'superior human' with five senses instead of one) prove to them that light waves exist? Should they take your word? Do you think they will?
Why would I bother telling them?
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Atheists among them will claim you are completely crazy and imagine things.
So should they.
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Light Waves = magic and fiction (as Ashrah put it) for these humans in our story.
Well take it another way.
If I came up to you and said OMG THERES AN INVISIBLE GHOST ABOUT TO EAT YOU UNLESS YOU DO A HANDSTAND would you believe me?
but your metaphor is flawed. You're treating religious people as if they have some 'third eye' which can see the lord or something.
There is no such thing.
The ONLY reason why religious people can POSSIBLY believe in god is because someone TOLD THEM TO.
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Yet even if they cannot 'prove' it, that doesn't mean Light Waves don't exist.
Nope, sure doesn't Jonny.
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And some of them could have hope for 'light', which could translate into a religion for light.
Those ignorant will claim they waste their time.
Aha!
Don't they??
Tell me that they AREN'T WASTING THEIR TIME. You would be lying.
What could they possibly hope to achieve chasing after the light? (you could come up with some reasons, but only by breaking the metaphor )
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Or will simply find these light-believers completely unwise. Like Ashrah put it.
They're at very least, very gullible
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In short, all the things that you call 'logical' are actually a basic psychological thing in your mind -- just as those handicapped humans without 4 senses called light illogical (yet you call it logical), but they could have a different sense, something you cannot comprehend.
Triple metaphor
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So whatever your understanding of 'logic' it's an ignorant idea to limit yourself to it --
I DON'T.
What a great conversation we have going here.
IF those people COULD see the light it would make it a whole lot easier for them to believe in it, though. And they would have reason to.
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like, if something isn't logical for you, it certainly will be crap and fairy tales
Not all things. Just god.
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EDIT: Suppose now that 'religious' people (in the real world) have a new sense -- the spiritual sense. This is only an example.
Quadruple twist metaphor?
Some kind of record?
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Of course you start claiming how can it be illogical and fairy tales, etc.
I've seen this metaphor. Must be a re-run. I'm changing channels.
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If 99% of the population were blind people, they would believe your 'colors' to be fairy tales as well.
btw you should try adding a solid 'point' to your metaphors, rather than just "if you can't see it doesn't mean its not there" expressed over again
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Also tell me how can you explain colors to blind people. With metaphors I bet (perhaps you recall that word from some earlier posts).
No, I recall that word from every sentence you write.
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Ok ok:
we humans have usually defined what is morally correct and what's not. For example, a crime is considerent imorally.
This one's great. I saw it quoted by someone else but haven't read it in your post yet. I look forward to it
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Why makes you think gays are morally correct? Perhaps this 'morality' factor has a significant importance in the 'rules' of the worlds (I am talking about God's worlds like Heaven/Hell). Of course those need not correspond to human's own morality definition.
In other words: 'god came down from the heavens and smote those men-lovers'
Ashrah doesn't believe in god so she doesn't care about what god think is morally wrong.
Not all men are gays. That's an unlikely scenario so it doesn't matter.
If a few men like to do that in their own time, that has no affect on you. It doesn't infringe on your rights.
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Maybe it is morally incorrect to be gay,
Bingo!
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by our creator's desire (God or whatever).
We don't have a creator.
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Just as is crime, for example, morally incorrect by our 'humanic' desire (well at least, some of us).
Crime infringes on personal rights.
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Of course you may consider gay to be morally correct. Remember that psycho killers think crime is morally correct as well.
Confusing crime with murder?
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Also this does not directly mean being gay is wrong by religion.
It's wrong by christianity and judaism, that much I know
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I mentioned that we defined what is morally correct and not. Including murder, for example, which is considered imorally. Ask yourself this: why is murder imorally?
immoral is the word you're looking for
And it's because it infringes on the persons right to live, and their family or whatever by making them sad.
Being gay doesn't do any of that.
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Of course it is, but the answer is not straight. This is no comparison. Now ask yourself why do you think being gay is not imorally as well?
yes it is, and answered.
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Imorally includes swearing too, which is obviously not the same as a murder.
No, swearing isn't immoral. It's considered rude, and can be used for immoral means (insulting people, threats etc), but it's not immoral by itself.
Me, I think it's just another word.
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Why do you think I said gay=murderers?
you implied that gays are immoral and compared it to psycho killers..
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The point is that being gay might or might not be "good". (good as morally correct in this context).
You're confusing morals with 'what god wants'
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Morality is defined subjective. Not everyone agrees murder is wrong (for example pshycho criminals). Probably gays are unnatural, etc.. so they are morally wrong perhaps.
Morality is NOT subjective. A person may think that they are morally right but that does not make them so. It's a collective term, just as real is, not subjective.
Just because a psychopath thinks that killing is morally right and I think its morally wrong, doesn't make it simultaneously BOTH.
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Allowing absolute-freedom to someone does not mean that it's necessary a good thing to do (and good = morally correct, not pleasure).
That means criminals are not 'free' because they are not allowed to murder. The idea is, pleasure does not always equal a good-thing in the meaning of the world/nature/God/whatever (which relates to morality).
Absolute freedom = anarchy
Not only is it immoral it is impossible
the closest we could hope to get to freedom is being allowed to do anything as long as it doesn't infringe on the rights of others.
However that wouldn't work in todays world. There has to be some limitations on things that cause too many overwhelming problems, such as guns.
Today, free countries are far from it, as Tom Morello (greatest guitarist) puts it;
"America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve."
but enough about gun control and freedom, thats going off topic on the off topic topic we have going here.
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I'll explain this short: Suppose you lack ears, right? In fact everyone except ME lacks ears. Then you'll say Sound is magically because I am the only human with ears which can hear. It's the same thing. You'll say sound is my own "invented thing".
Third time you've written this metaphor in one post
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Another example as above would be like having a "spiritual sense", but only religious people probably can 'feel' it. It's not so hard to believe (even if it is not true).
FOURTH!
Two records were made here today
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John says to live above hell.
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SwampLord
Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
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posted May 05, 2007 01:36 PM |
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Dude, it's not earth's own system to stop overcrowding. Didn't you take biology? That's natural selection's job- it weeds out the weak, only the strong survive.
This is what I dislike about gay people- if you're convinced you're the "saviors" of the world, because you're gay. WRONG! That's not earth's support system for overcrowding. That has, is, and always will be, natural selection, diseases, etc. We've "beaten" natural selection, in a sense, because we can stop many of the things that would kill us.
Don't imagine yourself as a hero- you're not, and it's rather arrogant of you.
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necrorevan
Bad-mannered
Hired Hero
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posted May 05, 2007 02:01 PM |
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Let me tell you a story:
I woke up then suddenly I saw pieces of metal flying around with some cables and a computer processor.
By coincidence they merged and transformed into a computer so I can chat with u.
You probably won't believe me (who would ?) but you still believe that the entire universe with thousands of planets and stars was created by coincidence?
I firmly believe that the universe, Earth and any living creature couldn't possibly exist by coincidence but rather by perfect entity that we call God or Allah or any other name.
The belief in God is a question of faith which I cannot impose on you even should I wish it.
You may have gave up on believing in God but God will never give up believing in us, his favorite creation. 
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted May 05, 2007 03:47 PM |
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Quote:
Let me tell you a story:
I woke up then suddenly I saw pieces of metal flying around with some cables and a computer processor.
By coincidence they merged and transformed into a computer so I can chat with u.
You probably won't believe me (who would ?) but you still believe that the entire universe with thousands of planets and stars was created by coincidence?
I firmly believe that the universe, Earth and any living creature couldn't possibly exist by coincidence but rather by perfect entity that we call God or Allah or any other name.
The belief in God is a question of faith which I cannot impose on you even should I wish it.
You may have gave up on believing in God but God will never give up believing in us, his favorite creation.
Here we go.
Ah but what about the argument of poor design? If God was perfect..
But think of it this way. If your computer-parts where swirling around and form into something randomly, its unlikely that they'll form a computer, right?
But what if that swirling thing happened infinite times? Then it will form into a computer, won't it? It has to. It will form every type of combination of the parts, and if JUST ONE of those combinations turns into a computer, then it's possible.
But I already made a thread about that notion, I think. Or maybe its buried in this messy pile of a thread here somewhere.
and then theres the ultimate 747.. the existence of a creator is even more unlikely than us sitting here..
and isn't a little arrogant to say we're gods favourite creation
edit:
a few too many smileys maybe?
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John says to live above hell.
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necrorevan
Bad-mannered
Hired Hero
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posted May 05, 2007 04:27 PM |
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I believe Stephen Hawkings said that the probability of a soup turning into a jumbo jet is higher than the probability that the universe was created by coincidence.
And I believe it's written in the Bible and the Coran that we are God's favorite creation since He created us in his image.
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