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TitaniumAlloy
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posted October 31, 2007 08:26 AM |
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Believe in God. Otherwise you will have no chance of coming to heaven. Build your house on the Rock, and the gates of Hades shall not overcome you. You must get baptised in Christ's Only Apostolic Catholic Church as soon as possible, you can die tomorrow.
I take this as a death threat and don't see why if someone said this to me in the court of law they wouldn't be locked up.
How is this any different to "do as I (or my book) tells you, or you will die (and worse)"
This guy can't be for real.
I mean come on.
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We are speaking about 500 000 years. Do you think it is it logical that we grown from 1 human to 6 million humans in 494 000 years, and then from 6 milions to 6,2 BILLIONS in 8000 years? Also the more kids who will die, the more kids will the dead kids parents "make".
It's called geometric growth. Basic mathematics. 
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Yes. Those false religions was created by the devil and his demons as a result of Gods pact with Israel. Luckily, he loves us all now after Jesus came! 
How do you know Jesus is not the work of the devil?
This is what I don't understand. How can you be so sure your intangible god is the right one?
Take Abraham for example, when he was stupid enough to attempt to butcher his own son in the name of "faith" (or infanticidal insanity)
For a start, God says "Thou shalt not kill", so this is a double standard of god asking him to kill his sone. SUre, God can change the rules, but how did Abraham know that it was god talking? Perhaps it was the devil trying to fool him? Or maybe his mind was playing tricks? Or maybe god was testing him in a cunning way, to see if he has so little moral fibre that he will kill his son at the command of a voice in the clouds?
All of these possibilities seem far more plausible than the idea that God actually wants Abraham's son dead, since what kind of loving God would command such a barbaric act?
Perhaps Lucifer is behind the bible 
You're so quick to pin that legendary fallen angel on anything you don't like from Darwin to Harry Potter, yet it's a double edged sword.
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If a mutation mate with someone, the outcome will be sterile. Therefore it is impossible to mutate an entire race like that among Humans and animals. Accept the fact that God created us, and we are not animals but the crown of His creation!
For a start you misunderstand completely the definition of a species. This is a gradual process. But obviously you are possibly AS stubborn as Shadey so I won't bother arguing the processes with you. But besides all of that there is one major flaw in your argument:
You can have more than one offspring.
You don't have to mate back to the parents.
You could in theory mate inbreed with the genetically similar siblings to produce viable offspring and continue the race.
Please don't make the mistake of thinking that I am implying that this is the sole way how species are created. It's not. I'm saying that this proves that speciation isn't impossible.
It's not the fact that the parents are different to the children. For example, when a population of animals gets split in two (by a river etc), the two populations are subject to different selective pressures and genetic drift, and as such they become so different over time that members of each respective population can't produce viable offspring WITH THE OTHER POPULATION, NOT with each other.
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He believes in us. He has gave you a free will to chose.
Wrong.
If he knows everything, then he knows every outcome of every action.
If he is infinitely powerful, then he creates us exactly how he wants us.
By creating us how he wants us, knowing full well what will happen creating us in this way (eg creates Woock in a certain way such that he will in turn become an Atheist due to his mindset, at the same time knowing that Woock will become an Atheist), then it is contradictory that it is Woock's free will.
In turn, God caused Woock to be come an atheist.
@Shadey:
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I have given up on beliving in God in order to worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
ZJ, put that into your peace pipe and smoke it.
Is that a thinly veiled personal attack?
No, it is a real religion called Pastafarianism. 
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Prove unequivocally that holy men, the Holy Spirit, and the Bible do not exist.
This is an inane statement.
You don't need to prove something doesn't exist, you need to prove that it does. This is common sense.
Prove the boogey man doesn't exist. Prove that fairies do not exist. Prove that Allah and Vishnu and Zeus and Harry Potter do not exist.
Without equivocation, of course.
@William:
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I thought that the first people on this Earth where Adam and Eve, and they were on Earth not in Heaven.
His son did not become more like a Human, he gave up his life to make us better people, you're right about the second thing.
You only talk about the Negative things, why don't you go on and list all of the good things that God may have done
If you build a thousand bridges, and commit one murder, you are not a bridge builder, you are a murderer.
(ahem...censored version  )
And what good things has he done? Are we really better people now? Apart from changing from being Jewish to being Christian...
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted October 31, 2007 09:49 AM |
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You do know that God prevented said sacrifice right? It was a test, to see how loyal he was, and he passed. He was willing to give up his son, but God basically said. "Willingness is enough, you don't have to kill him." (paraphrasing). Just thought I would clear that up.
I do know the scripture. I still think that Abraham and God of said story are out there with the sickest characters I've heard of.
Abraham had to perform the deed without knowing that God was going to stop him. Why should Abraham perform the deed? Because God said so. Why would God say so? Why would God want Isaac dead? As it turns out he didn't, but the whole point of the test is that Abraham didn't know that.
Willingness to commit the most heinous and most morally bankrupt crime because a voice told you to is enough? These are the morals that Christianity finds noble?
Come on. But my point is that it might not be God talking, but the devil; Abraham might be mad; the test might be to see if he refuses.
What could be the moral of this story? Always do as God commands, no matter how disgusting it be, without question? Perhaps a person of faith can never know for sure what God's bidding truly is.
What if Abraham was wrong?
What if the Holy Men who wrote the scriptures were really Satanists, and the Holy Spirit guiding them was really the Devil?
Even more extreme: What if Jesus is the false prophet?
You might argue that this is an old chapter and is not relevant today. But take a moment to consider all the people who believe that GOd wishes them to become suicide bombers, to murder prostitutes or to persecute an ethnic minority. Before you say that God could never command such wicket things, remember that the God of the three Abrahamic faiths not only ordered the sacrifice of Isaac, but also condoned the rape of a wife as punishment to the husband (2 Samuel 12), ordered the killing of followers of other religions (Deuteronomy 13) and sentenced blasphemers to death by stoning (Leviticus 24).
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John says to live above hell.
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted October 31, 2007 10:42 AM |
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Yes but you again begin with the default assumption that the written word "God" in the bible refers to the actual God, and knowing that, assume that everything written in the bible is true from that perspective.
For example, you assume that if you do not believe in the God of the bible that you will go to hell (with satan), which is not reasonable given that the point being made is that the bible might be false, in which case this statement does not apply.
I'm not suggesting that this is so, so I don't see why I need to go into the details of what a false bible would entail, but perhaps everytime "God" is written it is actually from the perspective of the devil manipulating you to sin. Maybe that accounts for all the sin in the world
And sure the Bible says that Jesus healed everyone. But again you're quoting from the Bible, which is redundant in this situation.
Anyway, the details are not important. It's the idea, of taking everything with the word Holy on it for granted, without question.
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John says to live above hell.
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Gallow
Bad-mannered
Known Hero
Avenger
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posted October 31, 2007 11:04 AM |
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You are saying that the bible is made by satan,nice...i never heard so much stupid things at same time in my life,first about evolution,darwinist,and now this,this thread has no sence anymore,i would like if can be deleted.
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted October 31, 2007 11:18 AM |
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No, it's really not the 'not me' cop out at all.
My point is that sin is, supposedly, defined by the bible. (I disagree with this but this is the Christian contention)
If the Bible were to say something ridiculous like working on a sunday is a sin, then that would be a sin.
It's not a blame game.
And Gallow, you made my day, thankyou.
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John says to live above hell.
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SirDunco
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Supreme Hero
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posted October 31, 2007 11:35 AM |
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Don't get me wrong, the old testament God was a jerk.
I mean isn't it supposed to be one and the same god? The same god from the old testament, new testament? The same god back from 6000 years, from 2000 years, the same god now? The same eternal being?
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Satan is supposedly evil, why would he send somebody to heal the sick?
And if Satan is supposed to be evil, then why would he punish evil persons and wrongdoers in hell? Should not evil persons, heretics, sinners be his allies in his fight against God? Somehow this theory also doesn't make any sense to me.
As to a certian jolly fellow ZanJerusalem, honestly I wonder why you even bother to attempt to try to discuss anything with him, for such a thing as a discussion seems impossible, since close mindedness and zealousy are not the best conversational abilities.
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted October 31, 2007 11:48 AM |
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lol @ The actual version.
How does an omniscient being change his mind?
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John says to live above hell.
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SirDunco
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted October 31, 2007 11:58 AM |
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Actual version... rather interesting, then as of now, you say, there is no such thing as an actual hell, no devils, demons ect.? But will only be created after judgement day? If this is the case then there are quite a few theological flaws in the christian teachings.
As to changing his mind. Really TA said it for me... how DOES an omniscient being change his mind? That would imply some sort of failure, mistake, but from what we are being told of God, he is all knowing, all powerful, which somehow doesn't leave much room for error's in his actions...
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baklava
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Mostly harmless
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posted October 31, 2007 12:40 PM |
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But what if someone's body is blown to pieces? Where does the soul reside after that? Is there some sort of Limbo where those souls are put?
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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mvassilev
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posted October 31, 2007 12:54 PM |
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Maybe the Earth will spontaneously combust before you finish reading this post. But we have no reason to think that. There is as much evidence for that as there is for God.
It isn't a matter of "maybe." The fact that I finished reading the post before the earth spontaneously combusted is a matter of objective truth.
But how did you know that you would live to finish my post? Maybe the Earth would explode before you got to the last word. How could you be absolutely sure that it wouldn't happen? I'll tell you. It's because there's nothing that would suggest the contrary. Same with God. Sure, there might be an invisible flying ressurecting beard-man. But if there's no solid evidence of it, he's as likely as the Earth exploding right now.
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If God exists then that's all the evidence that is needed for that to be absolutely true.
No, no, no. If God exists, you need evidence to show that he exists.
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You choose to either disregard that evidence or use it for your own reality that suits your own agenda.
What agenda would that be?
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Eccentric Opinion
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted October 31, 2007 02:50 PM |
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You know, I've gone through a period where I absolutely hated religion. These days, I'm trying to accept people have the right to believe whatever they want to believe, but they really make it hard on me by always being so arrogantly self-righteous. "It's ok if you don't believe, I will pray one day you will see the truth..." Wtf?
One major thing which I dispise is that Religion spreads mainly through gullibility. And most of that during a person's period when he or she is most gullible, his or her childhood. We have a term for that, it's called indoctrination. It's how kids are able to believe Santa Claus is real.
If people were forbidden from learning religion untill they reached a mature age, I would be a lot more comfortable.
Another thing which I dispise about religion is its sheer intolerance to those who are different. If you don't believe, you're going to hell. If you have sex before marriage, you're going to hell (like all the animals). If you have sex with pleasure in mind, you're going to hell. If you're gay, you're going to hell, etc. I find it severely discriminating and breeding intolerance towards people who are different.
There IS one thing which I think is GOOD about religion: It could keep people in check, it could keep harmony, it could keep people close together.
But if I had to choose, I rather it did not exist at all.
The idea bible stories back in the days had been exaggerated are much more logical than that they were based on 100 % facts, like how Jesus walked on water.
How come some people see that things like Santa Claus are obviously impossible when they reach a certain age, while some others keep on believing in that other Fairytale called Christianity? In my opinion, it's due to fear of going to hell if they stop believing, which is caused by indoctrination in an early stage.
Back in the days, when people knew nothing, and they saw a thunderbolt striking a tree, it was very easy to believe it could be the work of a higher entity that was upset or something. Or an earthquake and the like. It's all logical. When science progresses though and explains these phenomenons, the initial reasons for believing there is a higher entity are brushed aside. Except at that stage, that 'higher entity' has already progressed to being an almighty god who created humans bladibla...
People should use their brains more.
But yeah my biggest two reasons for loathing religion is when people A) are too arrogantly self-righteous, and B) meddle too much with other people's life.
Yes, I am bisexual. Stop telling me I'm going to hell jackass, who are YOU to judge? You don't know me!
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Gallow
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posted October 31, 2007 03:09 PM |
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Edited by angelito at 17:03, 31 Oct 2007.
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And Gallow, you made my day, thankyou.
I didnt make anything,**** you
Edit by angelito
Warning! Read the CoC about using foul language and censoring. Next time a penalty will be applied!
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Lord_Woock
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Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted October 31, 2007 03:26 PM |
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lol @ The actual version.
How does an omniscient being change his mind?
Not only omniscient, but also infinitely perfect.
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Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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Orfinn
Supreme Hero
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posted October 31, 2007 05:33 PM |
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Edited by Orfinn at 17:34, 31 Oct 2007.
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i know its a bit off topic but the reason we havent "spread out" is several reasons. But a main one is simply the distance. You cant regather fuel in midair, and only a few worlds are habitable.
and another one is who would seriously leave the earth to live on a barren planet elsewhere? you wont find any good volunteers easily
I or someone else should start a separate thread about it. But fuel shouldnt be a to big concern with ion motors. Habitable planets are out there, quite alot of them, we are just searching the wrong spot, we aint that hi-tech yet to see them. And who have said barren or that who want? Its about if we CAN go that far, thats a great step and achievement for mankind. And if I got the chance I would certainly get out there!
But on topic..yes
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Gallow
Bad-mannered
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Avenger
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posted October 31, 2007 06:19 PM |
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Edit by angelito
Warning! Read the CoC about using foul language and censoring. Next time a penalty will be applied!
I just was defending myself,or you like when someone says ironically you made my day?is not nice.
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted October 31, 2007 06:35 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Edit by angelito
Warning! Read the CoC about using foul language and censoring. Next time a penalty will be applied!
I just was defending myself,or you like when someone says ironically you made my day?is not nice.
Neither is your self-righteous insultive manner of speech. You can defend yourself without using foul language and by using sheer logic rather than saying someone is just wrong, without giving any arguments whatsoever. You won't persuade anyone that way.
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antipaladin
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of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted October 31, 2007 10:26 PM |
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Zan jeruslam. your descrase to the contry that jeruslam is in,which is from i'm in.
Im atheist and jew. i would be twice a sinner
who are you to decided who is close to a god ,and who isent.
who is a pop.
your both just humanes,and what you belive,or have sex with does not make any differnce,if you are better or worse kind of person,niether would it make any differnce who'm you belived in if any.
Peoples Greatest villians ware theists....
Great massacres aqured from Enforcing ones faith over another.
Who is anyone to dictate moral to other people,its a supremcy conflict..
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types in obscure english
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George
Adventuring Hero
Dragon Lord
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posted October 31, 2007 10:52 PM |
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I'll just keep this short. i don't think God exists but if he does I go one thing to say to him : HE'S THE BIGGEST JERK THAT EVER EXISTED AND WILL EXIST IN ALL HIS SPLENDOUR AND INFINITE WISDOM. And are you going to believe that Satan is evil just because the Bible says so? I mean angels ar suposed to be perfect beings...then why did Lucifer become evil? Maybe God intented to make Lucifer bad so he can find an excuse for his EVIL PART. Oh well I actualy don't give a **** anymore...I'm planing on commiting suicide anyway...I guess I'll see what really happens
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ZanJerusalem
Disgraceful
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 31, 2007 10:56 PM |
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To be ethnically Israelite is not a sin.
Being an atheist is a sin, however, you are ungrateful our Lord's sacrifice on the cross. He died for your sins, but you deny him an you do not do his will. Therefore you will come to hell if you do not change and convert to Christianity. For:
John 3:36
Anyone who believes in the Son has eternal life, but anyone who refuses to believe in the Son will never see life: God's retribution hangs over him.' (New Jerusalem version)
and of course:
Matthew 7:21 'It is not anyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord," who will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but the person who does the will of my Father in heaven. (New Jerusalem version)
Theists are NOT the greatest villians. Atheists are. Mao Zedong and Stalin, the worst massmuderes in history where botha theists. Lenin was an atheist. Hitler was some sort of occultist.
If you are speaking about the holy inquisition and/or the heroic crusaders who suffered martyrdom in your homelands, I cannot say that they where purely villains. They where humans, and as every other humans, they made some mistakes.
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George
Adventuring Hero
Dragon Lord
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posted October 31, 2007 11:00 PM |
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To be ethnically Israelite is not a sin.
Being an atheist is a sin, however, you are ungrateful our Lord's sacrifice on the cross. He died for your sins, but you deny him an you do not do his will. Therefore you will come to hell if you do not change and convert to Christianity. For:
John 3:36
Anyone who believes in the Son has eternal life, but anyone who refuses to believe in the Son will never see life: God's retribution hangs over him.' (New Jerusalem version)
and of course:
Matthew 7:21 'It is not anyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord," who will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but the person who does the will of my Father in heaven. (New Jerusalem version)
Theists are NOT the greatest villians. Atheists are. Mao Zedong and Stalin, the worst massmuderes in history where botha theists. Lenin was an atheist. Hitler was some sort of occultist.
If you are speaking about the holy inquisition and/or the heroic crusaders who suffered martyrdom in your homelands, I cannot say that they where purely villains. They where humans, and as every other humans, they made some mistakes.
Are some texts that important to you??? They were written by people...people aren't God! Get that in your tiny mind!
Hehe...and crusaders and inquisitors made "some" mistakes...you really have to be stupid to think that.
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