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ZanJerusalem
Disgraceful
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 31, 2007 11:23 PM |
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Quote:
Are some texts that important to you??? They were written by people...people aren't God! Get that in your tiny mind!
Yes and now. The bible where written by Holy men, the New Testament by the Apostles. And when Saint Athanasius complied the Holy Bible along with the Council of Nicaea under Saint Emperor Constantine I they where guided by the Holy Spirit.
It is the word of God. At least the New Jerusalem Version is, most others are corrupted by Protestant theology.
Quote:
Hehe...and crusaders and inquisitors made "some" mistakes...you really have to be stupid to think that.
Could you come up with a decent argument insteard of flaming me please?
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ZanJerusalem
Disgraceful
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 31, 2007 11:25 PM |
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And one thing more:
Quote:
I'm planing on committing suicide anyway...I guess I'll see what really happens
I hope you are not serious here. Otherwise you need professional help. Visit nearest Church, priests of all denominations can help you here.
And do NOT commit suicide! It is a Mortal sin, it leads to hell. And you lose so much by doing it.
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George
Adventuring Hero
Dragon Lord
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posted October 31, 2007 11:34 PM |
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What decent argument would you like? Is people killing tousands of other people in "the name of God" good enough for you? (the crusaders) Religion is in my opinion one of the primary factors that contribute to wars, and I'm not saying that one religion does this...all are to blame..instead of uniting human beings they make huge gaps between them!
That's all I have to say....religion will get us nowhere...we have to start working togheter and brake all these stupid and PRIMITIVE barriers!
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roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
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posted October 31, 2007 11:36 PM |
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Commiting suicide thinking theres no afterlife must be a depressing thought in itself.
Anyway from what i know of the inquisition and the crusades- The people who led them were potentially insane . The rest of them were just poor guys who wanted to go fight in the army for some excitement. Same as today why theres armies really. A lot of evil was done there but then you dont see many people critisizing the romans nearly as much as a source of evil. And they drove us out of our original homeland and we had a bloody civil war with them. At least the christians were polite and gave us a chance to leave.
That being said strangely 500 or so years ago the best religion for the jews was the islam. They practically loved us then. The jews were a huge source of economic growth for them. Everywhere they were shunned they just went to the muslims and got rich and respected. I wish that were the case today though.
Religion is a good and useful when used properly. It is far superior to brute force and gives people a sense of hope.
That being said religion could definatly be better if people used it better.
And yes i believe in god.
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"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
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George
Adventuring Hero
Dragon Lord
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posted October 31, 2007 11:37 PM |
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Quote:
And one thing more:
Quote:
I'm planing on committing suicide anyway...I guess I'll see what really happens
I hope you are not serious here. Otherwise you need professional help. Visit nearest Church, priests of all denominations can help you here.
And do NOT commit suicide! It is a Mortal sin, it leads to hell. And you lose so much by doing it.
I don't go to church and I don't care if commiting suicide is in your opinion a mortal sin...I don't believe in your hell and in your god anymore. We are nothing but thinking animals and we're not going anywhere...People have to get it in their heads : When we die we don't pass to another dimension or something like that; we just stop existing!
And what can I lose if I do kill myself? I have nothing to lose here...that's why I'm planing on doing it!
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roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
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posted October 31, 2007 11:41 PM |
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Quote:
And what can I lose if I do kill myself? I have nothing to lose here...that's why I'm planing on doing it!
Then it can only get better. If you have nothing to lose then its time to start gaining.
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"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
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George
Adventuring Hero
Dragon Lord
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posted October 31, 2007 11:42 PM |
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Edited by George at 23:53, 31 Oct 2007.
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What can I gain from this life? There's nothing good here anymore 
Edit : This is pointless...I allready thought about this so there's no point in discussing it. Just hope something nice happens and I don't kill myself...pray to your God
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 01, 2007 12:31 AM |
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My thoughts on suicide:
1. It's stupid to commit suicide. If you're here talking about it, that means that you have access to a computer and electricity in general. You're already better off than the majority of the world's population. Your life may be bad, but it's not as bad as some people's. And they're not even contemplating suicide.
2. On the other hand, and I realize that this may offend many people, people that seriously want to commit suicide even after hearing Point #1, should. They're obviously unreachable by logic and possibly have something wrong with them, and society is better off without them.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted November 01, 2007 12:45 AM |
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I think this thread is becoming a replacement for the entire Other Side.
@Down: Now it does.
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Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 01, 2007 01:00 AM |
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Shadey
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 01, 2007 02:58 AM |
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Quote:
What decent argument would you like? Is people killing tousands of other people in "the name of God" good enough for you? (the crusaders) Religion is in my opinion one of the primary factors that contribute to wars, and I'm not saying that one religion does this...all are to blame..instead of uniting human beings they make huge gaps between them!
That's all I have to say....religion will get us nowhere...we have to start working togheter and brake all these stupid and PRIMITIVE barriers!
That's an interesting assertion.
the greatest massacre ever imputed by the government of one sovereign against the government of another is 26.3 million Chinese during the regime of Mao Tse Tung between the years of 1949 and May 1965. The Walker Report published by the U.S. Senate Committee of the Judiciary in July 1971 placed the parameters of the total death toll in China since 1949 between 32 and 61.7 million people. An estimate of 63.7 million was published by Figaro magazine on November 5, 1978.
In the U.S.S.R. the Nobel Prize winner, Alexander Solzhenitsyn estimates the loss of life from state repression and terrorism from October 1917 to December 1959 under Lenin and Stalin and Khrushchev at 66.7 million.
Finally, in Cambodia (and this was close to me because I lived in Thailand in 1982 working with the broken pieces of the Cambodian holocaust from 1975 to 1979) "as a percentage of a nation's total population, the worst genocide appears to be that in Cambodia, formerly Kampuchea. According to the Khmer Rouge foreign minister, more than one third of the eight million Khmer were killed between April 17, 1975 and January 1979. One third of the entire country was put to death under the rule of Pol Pot, the founder of the Communist Party of Kampuchea. During that time towns, money and property were abolished. Economic execution by bayonet and club was introduced for such offenses as falling asleep during the day, asking too many questions, playing non-communist music, being old and feeble, being the offspring of an undesirable, or being too well educated. In fact, deaths in the Tuol Sleng interrogation center in Phnom Penh, which is the capitol of Kampuchea, reached 582 in a day."
Then in Chinese history of the thirteenth to seventeenth centuries there were three periods of wholesale massacre. The numbers of victims attributed to these events are assertions rather than reliable estimates. The figures put on the Mongolian invasion of northern China form 1210 to 1219 and from 1311 to 1340 are both on the order of 35 million people. While the number of victims of bandit leader Chang Hsien-Chung, known as the Yellow Tiger, from 1643 to 1647 in the Szechwan province has been put at 40 million people.
China under Mao Tse Tung, 26.3 million Chinese. According the Walker Report, 63.7 million over the whole period of time of the Communist revolution in China. Solzhenitsyn says the Soviet Union put to death 66.7 million people. Kampuchea destroyed one third of their entire population of eight million Cambodians. The Chinese at two different times in medieval history, somewhere in the vicinity of 35 million and 40 million people. Ladies and gentlemen, make note that these deaths were the result of organizations or points of view or ideologies that had left God out of the equation. None of these involve religion. And all but the very last actually assert atheism.
Seems to me atheists kill more people than religious people.
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Shadey
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 01, 2007 03:42 AM |
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Quote:
@Shadey:
Quote:
Prove unequivocally that holy men, the Holy Spirit, and the Bible do not exist.
This is an inane statement.
You don't need to prove something doesn't exist, you need to prove that it does. This is common sense.
Prove the boogey man doesn't exist. Prove that fairies do not exist. Prove that Allah and Vishnu and Zeus and Harry Potter do not exist.
Without equivocation, of course. 
That is a false assertion. Each side must shoulder the burden of proof. Both the Christian AND the atheist are obligated to provide support for their position. You must provide proof to God's alleged nonexistance. Furthermore, Do you know, or do you not know whether God exists? Is your assertion simply one of agnosticism?
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted November 01, 2007 06:44 AM |
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@Shadey:
Quote:
Quote:
You don't need to prove something doesn't exist, you need to prove that it does. This is common sense.
Prove the boogey man doesn't exist. Prove that fairies do not exist. Prove that Allah and Vishnu and Zeus and Harry Potter do not exist.
Without equivocation, of course.
That is a false assertion. Each side must shoulder the burden of proof. Both the Christian AND the atheist are obligated to provide support for their position. You must provide proof to God's alleged nonexistance. Furthermore, Do you know, or do you not know whether God exists? Is your assertion simply one of agnosticism?
As for proving nonexistance... my point remains the same as before. I have said you don't need to prove something doesn't exist in order to discount it (such as discounting the Boogey man with no evidence against his existence), yet you say you do have to provide evidence for something that doesn't exist. I don't know what else to say other than I disagree with the fundamentals of this statement.
As for my assertion, it is clear: We cannot possibly know in our lifetime whether or not a higher power exists, and as such it cannot affect us and leaves no logical option other than to be ignored.
Shadey, what are your thoughts on the binding of Isaac?
@ZJ:Quote:
Theists are NOT the greatest villians. Atheists are. Mao Zedong and Stalin, the worst massmuderes in history where botha theists. Lenin was an atheist. Hitler was some sort of occultist.
Perhaps they were, but this is irrelevant seeing as they did not do their 'evil deeds' in the name of atheism. There is no central motif that you can direct towards atheism, and as such you can't really blame atheism for this kind of thing. Stalin wasn't a tyrant because he was atheist. Or because he had brown hair and a moustache. Or if he liked vodka. These are all defining attributes of him, but you can't pin his mass murders on them.
Whereas religious murders, which the bible wholeheartedly condones, ARE motivated by religion and they are the driving force behind it. Perhaps in some cases they would have happened anyway, but if even in ONE situation religion is the sole cause (in which if religion was taken out of the equation it would not have happened), then that is enough. In my opinion there is alot more than one case. But I'm not prepared to argue over the details of whether or not the crusades or 911 would have happened if God doesn't tell his supporters to kill those that aren't
And ZanJerusalem, please take the time to read my main reply to your posts on Page 62. 
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John says to live above hell.
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antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted November 01, 2007 10:59 AM |
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Quote:
If you are speaking about the holy inquisition and/or the heroic crusaders who suffered martyrdom in your homelands, I cannot say that they where purely villains. They where humans, and as every other humans, they made some mistakes.
Not only. heroric crusades?
they slughterd innocets for not beliving them..
and the eurpeans venturing into south america?
and forcing them to belivein god,or be killed...
listen.
i dont hate you ,not shady,and not you zan,i have no problam with you thinking whatever...however saying that i'm less of a person due to my belifes or sexual desires is anrgrying atleast.
are you justifycading the Jyad? i mean why not,its the same as crusade..
how can you prof that jesus christ is better then mohamad,or moses?
And hilter being an ouctlist its not entierly true,its not fact.
he was wanting to place the good christian morality in the german people.
Christinity also let to antisemtism. During the aicent and middle ages it was given a legetimisition by the goverment\church to preform pogroms on jews,singagos,and jewish buisness.
Being a jew was not safe back then..
milions ware slughterd
mistakes?
i say not.
i say that we could do be being pegans.
Atleast then we could not justificate murders or sedomise.
oh,and consentual gay sex is not sadomising.
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types in obscure english
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TitaniumAlloy
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Professional
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posted November 01, 2007 11:28 AM |
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Christianity INVENTED Antisemitism.
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John says to live above hell.
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Nidhgrin
Honorable
Famous Hero
baking cookies from stardust
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posted November 01, 2007 11:30 AM |
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Edited by Nidhgrin at 11:31, 01 Nov 2007.
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I really do respect people who have faith, and give religion a healthy place in their lives. People like Consis for instance, for they see the merit of science, and are not afraid to question their own beliefs (yet hold on to them). By the way, doubt is a natural side product of any kind of belief.
I have the same respect for people who focus more on science, but can understand why people worship one or multiple gods, and let them be.
These open way to interesting discussions, that are not about winning a point whether science is evil, or religion is a waste of energy for frightened people.
Lately I see people take a tough stance on the field of science, taking every opportunity they have to hammer down any religious 'fact' that is presented. At the same time there are more and more people who behave as religious fanatics, completely ignore well reasoned statements and puke out quotes from 'holy books' to label every one else as heretic to prove their statements wrong.
My point is you're not having a constructive discussion anymore, and it might be better to take a break, then return to the topic a while later with an empty mind.
As a sidenote, if this thread can serve as a representation of a normal population of (especially young) people, it seems there's a polarisation going on. I don't think that's all that good. Extreme viewpoints lead to extreme behaviour and extreme actions.
There is more than one thruth. In fact there are as many as there are human beings. There are no 2 individuals who have exactly the same view on a certain subject (be it science, religion or otherwise). It's one of the building blocks of belief, and the reason science as well as religion have so many followers.
If more people would realize that, maybe as a race we would be more tolerant and respectful of each other. Thanks for listening.
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted November 01, 2007 12:18 PM |
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 Nidd.
Zan, when you were giving suicide advice, did it occur to you to suggest just seeing a counselor as well as a member of the Clergy?
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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Shadey
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 01, 2007 01:28 PM |
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Edited by Shadey at 13:33, 01 Nov 2007.
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Quote:
Christianity INVENTED Antisemitism.
I hope you have evidence for that assertion. Otherwise that is a troll post and a flame.
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted November 01, 2007 01:34 PM |
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@Nidhgrin:
For the most part I agree with you. But here's the deal, discussion about religion is doomed to fail to begin with if the religious counterparts don't even get this fundamental fact:
"The bible does NOT necessarily contain facts".
Doesn't matter WHAT religious discussion you look at, all the time you will see believers quote paragraphs from their holy book as "proof", as "facts".
This is a fundamental flaw, and objective discussion is simply not possible when they don't want to acknowledge there IS the possibility that their little book does NOT contain truth.
Intelligent discussion should be based on logic, not on quoting fairytales as "proof".
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not an Atheist, I am willing to believe there is a higher deity. However, I simply refuse to believe that if there IS a deity, it's the type that's fully known and described in a crappy 2000+ year old book written by superstitious monks. (Let's not even BEGIN about the more logical theory that rich people needed a way of keeping the masses in line to work for them...)
I'm willing to think people are free to believe whatever they want, but it's people like Zan who force their believes as facts onto me that makes me LOATHE them.
That's just how it is.
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frostwolf
Famous Hero
livin' in a bottle of vodka
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posted November 01, 2007 01:36 PM |
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Quote:
My thoughts on suicide:
1. It's stupid to commit suicide. If you're here talking about it, that means that you have access to a computer and electricity in general. You're already better off than the majority of the world's population. Your life may be bad, but it's not as bad as some people's. And they're not even contemplating suicide.
2. On the other hand, and I realize that this may offend many people, people that seriously want to commit suicide even after hearing Point #1, should. They're obviously unreachable by logic and possibly have something wrong with them, and society is better off without them.
Really now, can you honestly say that electricity makes life worth living?
And people who want to commit suicide are unreachable by logic, eh?
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