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| Thread: death knight and wraith |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted June 07, 2006 05:00 PM |
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10% x number of wraiths? so 10 wraiths kill 100% of enemy's stack? 
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rpgguy
Adventuring Hero
Scholar
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posted June 07, 2006 05:06 PM |
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Edited by rpgguy at 17:08, 07 Jun 2006.
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Quote:
10% x number of wraiths? so 10 wraiths kill 100% of enemy's stack?
10% * 1 is 0.1 so 1 wraith kill 0.1 creatures which is zero and 10 wraiths kill 1 check your math man
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted June 07, 2006 05:11 PM |
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ah, sry, me noob 
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Clahar
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 08, 2006 09:32 AM |
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Not to mention, the Bone and Spectral Dragons really suck, especially in comparison to all other level 7 units (weakest IMO). I wouldn't have a problem with the Bone/Spectrals being replaced by the Death Knights, albeit the Death Knights slightly nerfed. Then again, I would also prefer the Vamps were the level 6 unit, but what the hell, can't have everything.
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drogoth
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 08, 2006 04:26 PM |
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I've done it.
I replaced the wight/wraith with the black/death knight and the bone dragon with the wraith. I kept the deathknight with his original stats, including the deadly strike ability. It triggers so rarely that I saw no reason to change it. I tweaked the stats of the wraith and made it a tier 7 with similar stats to the bone dragon.
Generally, I think that the feel of the necropolis army is much better, it looks 'right' after these changes
I might post a guide on how to tweak stats, abilities, game mechanics and the looks of creatures soon.
cheers
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted June 08, 2006 04:48 PM |
bonus applied. |
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I kept the deathknight with his original stats, including the deadly strike ability. It triggers so rarely that I saw no reason to change it.
As I see it, even at 25 % chance of occuring, it's so absurd an ability that it should simply not be there. Of course, you can change it in time, if you realize it shouldn't be there.
Quote:
Not to mention, the Bone and Spectral Dragons really suck, especially in comparison to all other level 7 units (weakest IMO). I wouldn't have a problem with the Bone/Spectrals being replaced by the Death Knights, albeit the Death Knights slightly nerfed. Then again, I would also prefer the Vamps were the level 6 unit, but what the hell, can't have everything.
I find it slightly amusing that people all the time mention how bad Spectral Dragons are compared to other level 7 units - but only a few seem to remember that you possibly receive 3 spectral dragons each week, and only 2 of the other level 7 creatures. Try to compare the stats of 1.5 spectral dragon with 1 black dragon:
1.5 Spectral Dragon: Attack 30, Defence 28, Damage 38-53, HP 240, Init/Speed 11/7, Cost 4350 + 3 Mercury.
1 Black Dragon: Attack 30, Defence 30, Damage 45-70, HP 240, Init/Speed 10/9, Cost 4500 + 2 Sulfur.
Yes, the Bone Dragons do somewhat less damage - in fact, the only level 7 creature to do less damage is the Emerald Dragon at 33-57, and it's not too gentle on your Mercury reserve, but other than that, it's not particularly lacking compared to other level 7 units. Of course, 1.5 creature is not always as good as 1 creature (because you'll only need to do 160 damage to kill the first spectral dragon) but on the other hand, the Necromancers have very easy access to raise dead, whereas other factions will need to have a hero with Expert Light magic to ressurect their units (and remember, the black dragon will not be ressurected at all). So, all in all, I don't think the Necros are too bad off.
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drogoth
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 08, 2006 05:16 PM |
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@Alcibiades
You are right about the deathknights ability being super-overpowered but it triggers very rarely. You say 25%?hmm, I have only seen it happen once...on some ghosts and he missed. what a waste>< However you can get supremely lucky and turn the tides of a battle with it.
Once I play a bit more with them then perhaps I will find it necessary to weaken or change that ability.
you are aslo right about the dragons. They are not that bad especially if you have Kaspar with expert war machines,expert summoning and raise the dead spell You can ressurect them like crazy.
THe reason I opted to change them was that I always were a fan of the deathknight so I replaced the wraith with it. Then I thought, hmm, the wraith coould make a cool tier 7 so I replaced the bone dragon.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted June 08, 2006 10:52 PM |
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Quote:
@Alcibiades
You are right about the deathknights ability being super-overpowered but it triggers very rarely. You say 25%?hmm, I have only seen it happen once...on some ghosts and he missed. what a waste>< However you can get supremely lucky and turn the tides of a battle with it.
Once I play a bit more with them then perhaps I will find it necessary to weaken or change that ability.
you are aslo right about the dragons. They are not that bad especially if you have Kaspar with expert war machines,expert summoning and raise the dead spell You can ressurect them like crazy.
THe reason I opted to change them was that I always were a fan of the deathknight so I replaced the wraith with it. Then I thought, hmm, the wraith coould make a cool tier 7 so I replaced the bone dragon.
The official information sais 25 % chance at killing 50 % of stack - at least so it sais on www.heroesofmightandmagic.com - they might have changed it since the Beta, but I have heard no reports of this. I have only played 3 games so far, and only had one battles against Death Knights. The had two strikes at my Treants, one of them killing 90 Treants due to Death Blow. That the Death Blow works on Undead seems like a bug *lol*
Anyway, the Necropolis is really at a loss, because it has so many cool high-level units. If I one day MOD the Necro Town, I think I will make it like this:
Level 1: Sceletons / Archers: No change.
Level 2: Ghosts / Spectres: Scale down to At/Df 2-2, Dam 3-5, HP 10.
Level 3: Vampire / Vampire Lords: Scale down to At/Df 6-5, Dam 4-6, HP 25.
Level 4: Lich / Arc Lich: Scale down to At/Df 11-11, Dam 10-14, HP 30.
Level 5: Wights / Wraiths: Scale down to At/Df 19/17, Dam 15-20, HP 75. Harm touch now dispels all beneficial spells and is not activated.
Level 6: Dark Knights / Death Knights: Scale down Death Blow to kill 0.1 creatures pr. Death Knight.
Level 7: Bone Dragons / Spectral Dragons: Increase speed to 8 and leave unchanged.
The throwback is, that you have to sacrifice on of the High Level units by displacing it to level 3. In this case, the Vampire becomes even more crappy than it is already. An alternative would be to throw back the Wraith to level 3, and keep the Vampire and Lich unchanged. This might be a more balanced solution, as the Necropolis needs the lich as a high-level shooter, and will be hampered with two high-level walkers .... but the Wraith is a pretty cool creature in is current form also. No perfect solution.
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Kingpriest
Hired Hero
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posted June 09, 2006 12:20 AM |
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Out with crappy, boring zombies and in with Death Knights! I like the way you think!
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rpgguy
Adventuring Hero
Scholar
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posted June 09, 2006 10:00 PM |
bonus applied. |
Edited by rpgguy at 22:49, 09 Jun 2006.
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i just want to add that the 7th level creature of the undead SHOULD be the weakest becuase (well someone needs to be the weakest) the undead town can change (for free) the other 7th level creatures into them. (also true for other level creatures)
if for example the spectral dragons where the most powerfull 7th level creatures you could recruit the cheapest 7th level creatures go to your necropolis and convert them into spectral dragons which is unfair...
also the necros skills/abilities to convert/resurect (diplomacy skill, necromancy skill, eternal servtitude ability and the raise dead spell) all require the necros units to be slightly weaker in order to stay balance from the same reasons.
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ismail222
Known Hero
The Cataclysm
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posted June 10, 2006 02:37 PM |
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if necro can recruit death knights it'll own they have 25% chance to desstroy half ur units and with soldier's luck they'll be unstoppable the game will be such stupid.
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Thanatos
Known Hero
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posted June 10, 2006 06:25 PM |
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Quote:
if necro can recruit death knights it'll own they have 25% chance to desstroy half ur units and with soldier's luck they'll be unstoppable the game will be such stupid.
That's why they're getting nerfed if they're added to Necro's units
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted June 10, 2006 06:40 PM |
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Quote:
i just want to add that the 7th level creature of the undead SHOULD be the weakest becuase (well someone needs to be the weakest) the undead town can change (for free) the other 7th level creatures into them. (also true for other level creatures)
if for example the spectral dragons where the most powerfull 7th level creatures you could recruit the cheapest 7th level creatures go to your necropolis and convert them into spectral dragons which is unfair...
also the necros skills/abilities to convert/resurect (diplomacy skill, necromancy skill, eternal servtitude ability and the raise dead spell) all require the necros units to be slightly weaker in order to stay balance from the same reasons.
That is actually a very very good point! 
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OOPMan
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 11, 2006 03:51 PM |
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Wraiths are pretty much hopeless in my view. They seem to be the least damage resistant of all the level 6's and their Harm Touch ability is a hopelessly nerfed version of the Mighty Gorgon breath ability from H3.
As they are Wraiths are boring and weak.
If they had a cool special I wouldn't mind them being weak.
If they were tanks, I wouldn't mind them being boring.
As is, they're neither, and Necro pretty much ends up relying on Skellies, Vampires and Liches to get the job done...
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted June 11, 2006 10:47 PM |
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I can't quite figure out the thing about wraiths. In the description of their special ability, the Harm touch, I got the impression that this was an activated ability - however, during combat, there is no ability-icon for them, so I suppose they at least had the sense to make this ability standard - or am I mistaken?
Anyhow, I still have to agree with you that wraiths are pretty boring. Problems are:
- They move too slowly.
- They don't fly - a huge problem because they are large creatures, meaning they can't go anywhere on battlefield.
- They have boring specials. Harm Touch seems pretty lame, as you say, at least they could have given them the 10 % kill - that'd be nice. Or they could have some spells at their use.
Usually, I only use my Wraiths to take out the last weak unit in battle - otherwise, they just hang around on the back doing nothing. A bit problematic, and the Necros could sorely use another spellcaster unit, since the Lich is so important for their offense.
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Gus
Known Hero
Not-So-Bright Crusader
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posted June 11, 2006 11:22 PM |
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re: Harm Touch
i experienced the same as you: i couldn't see the icon. But in some fight, suddenly it was there. I suspect you can only use this when there are positive enchantments to lift, but this is only a wild guess. It could be that it is enabled only when there are potential targets on the battlefield (ie living), for example.
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If Pacman had affected us as kids we'd be running around in dark rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music.
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rpgguy
Adventuring Hero
Scholar
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posted June 12, 2006 12:42 AM |
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Edited by rpgguy at 01:02, 12 Jun 2006.
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Quote:
I can't quite figure out the thing about wraiths. In the description of their special ability, the Harm touch, I got the impression that this was an activated ability - however, during combat, there is no ability-icon for them, so I suppose they at least had the sense to make this ability standard - or am I mistaken?
Anyhow, I still have to agree with you that wraiths are pretty boring. Problems are:
- They move too slowly.
- They don't fly - a huge problem because they are large creatures, meaning they can't go anywhere on battlefield.
- They have boring specials. Harm Touch seems pretty lame, as you say, at least they could have given them the 10 % kill - that'd be nice. Or they could have some spells at their use.
Usually, I only use my Wraiths to take out the last weak unit in battle - otherwise, they just hang around on the back doing nothing. A bit problematic, and the Necros could sorely use another spellcaster unit, since the Lich is so important for their offense.
all 6 towns have 1 shooter with no spellcasting ability and 1 shooter that is also a spellcaster except for sylvan that have an extra level 1 caster and the inferno which have no 2nd shooter and the academy which have titans - seems balanced to me from the necros point of view.
the wraith ability is an activated ability meaning youll have to click the ability icon and choose a target.
the ability makes the wraiths MOVE and attack (unlike some abilities like the demons overseers explosion).
their ability does 3 things:
a)kill a single units.
b)remove benficial spells from target
c)NO retaliation from the target!
this ability is much better than the vorpal swords the pit lords have which i havent heard anyone complains about!
ofcourse the ability doesnt make the wraith the best 6th level in the game but still it can be usefull - you just need to be creative:
a)kill a black dragon or a pheonix easily with small amount of wraiths - you can scatter the wraiths to do it alot of times in battle.
b)get rid of a realy anoying spell (arcane armor,magical immunity) or a stack that have been pumped with lots of beneficial spells/abilities) - remember cleansing does not work 100% of the time in this game!!!
c)get close to those 20 titans and kill one of them (preventing them from shooting from now on becuase you are stuck to them) and kill one of them without recieving a deadly kick to the head (thats the ghosts job with its 50% concealment - and no they wont start to kick you becuase they prefer the lightning bolts which deals less damage than their shots).
sure the wraith is not perfect at all but its not useless either it can realy shine at critical times and its ability can be much better than other 6th level abilities like vorpal swords or lay on hands. sure you can argue that those creatures (paladin and pit lords) have 2 abilities and not 1 like the wraiths but as i mentioned in my previous post the undead do have another ability - they are undead which gives them all kinds of other benefits - immunity to some spells and effects and using the necros abilities (read my last post) - i mean the titans have immunity to mind spells - thats a respectable level 7 ability , well guess what the wraiths have that too! but its small printed undead so none realy pay attentions i think everyone will realy appritiate their paladins having immunity to frenzy,confusion,blindness,puppet master,wasp swarm and curse of the neitherworld but they dont! well the wraiths do! and i guess everyone will like their paladins getting resurrected with the raise dead spell but they dont! and the wraiths do! -( i can go on but i think i made my point) dont dismiss the undead special perks just becuase their units seems a little weaker!
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Nebukanezar
Hired Hero
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posted June 19, 2006 12:15 AM |
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I think it is a great idea for the wraiths to swap with the bonedragons, like a lot of you guys already said - Too many dragons already...
A lot of you think that the death knights are too strong to be the 6th level of the necropolis because of the deadly strike, well couldn't the wraiths and the death knights change positions, so the wraith remains level 6, and the death knight become level 7?
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Thanatos
Known Hero
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posted June 19, 2006 12:40 AM |
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Quote:
I think it is a great idea for the wraiths to swap with the bonedragons, like a lot of you guys already said - Too many dragons already...
A lot of you think that the death knights are too strong to be the 6th level of the necropolis because of the deadly strike, well couldn't the wraiths and the death knights change positions, so the wraith remains level 6, and the death knight become level 7?
Even then it would be too powerful, a creature with an ability like the DK has should simply not be recruitable at a town unless it's ability gets nerfed IMO
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Fuzzier
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 19, 2006 06:45 AM |
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Death Knight special ability is surely over-powered.
Imagine that you split 4 Death Knights in 4 groups, and surround 1000 Archangels, the chance to destroy at least 500 Archangels is 68.4%, and chance to destroy at leat 750 Archangels is 21.1%.
In H3, 11 Mighty Gorgons have 68.6% chance to kill at least 1 Archangel, and 33.8% chance to kill at least 2 Archangel.
Conlusion: this is not Warcraft III!
Wraith is OK in H5. Some say they should have Vorpal Sword ability, then I say they lose the ability to dispel buffs on strike. Some say they should have Might Gorgon's Death Stare, then I say reduce their HP, attack and initiate. Some say they should be level 7, than how about Spectre Dragons? We know that in H5, Dragons are Gods! So no matter Wraith is death itself or not, Spectre Dragon is the Dead God itself, and should be placed above Wraith.
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