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| Thread: Necro Strength |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Istari
Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
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posted May 08, 2007 05:37 PM |
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raise dead is essential to the necromancer (especially during creeping) but it is not dominate, or good enough to make the Necro the best faction. The necro needs more troops than their opponent just to compete.
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Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong.
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted May 08, 2007 05:44 PM |
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Quote:
True, but creeping is a critical part of the game. In duel, Raise Dead isn't a very useful spell compared to others, but in the main game it makes a huge difference, and allows Necros to generally outnumber the oposition at all times.
So you're saying that Raise Dead for other factions than Necro is completely useless?
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Destro23
Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
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posted May 09, 2007 12:31 AM |
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Edited by Destro23 at 00:34, 09 May 2007.
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Trust me.. vs a human player in a long tough final battle raise dead is well worth its place in your spell book..
Consider 20+ spell power -- master of life (not needed but definately nice) And your in round 13 of a very hard battle with any faction really.. mana is running low, creatures are wearing thin..
Then suddely.. what does you opponent see... oh noes... its 25 vampire lords back from the dead! Then the next turn they say.. oh noess.. its 8 Wights back from the dead. Haha hes out of mana and I have a ressurect left. Ooops.. he motn'd my raised stack.. now hes got 2 stacks of fresh troops.. I have 1.. we have no mana.. but hes gonna start draining me.
4 rounds later...
Uh oh... hes got 6 stacks up and I have only 1 and its almost dead.. oh well maybe next time.
The Major mistake players make with raise dead is its over use. Yes the -20% hp hurts alot should you raise your wights everytime 2 are dead. But if you only cast this spell on a stack thats already undergound.. ummm whats the problem?
30 * (health*80%) > 0 health ???
Or is my math out of whack here?
Just saw the post in regards to other factions and raise dead being useless.. this is absolutley not true. For any faction that utilizes summoning magic of any kind Raise Dead can be a huge bonus. Lets look at a fine example..
Raise Dead the almost dead phoenix.. what costs more? Raise Dead or a summon phoenix spell?
- Lets think of this not only in mana.. but how abut the initiative the phoenix has already built up? Or its strategical placement on the battlefield? But but... it will die anyway when combat ends... oh well its a phoenix.
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 09, 2007 05:10 AM |
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Very good points Destro.
I might add from myself that this spell is totally different from what it was before nerf. This spell alone used to win you games. It was so broken back then. Now things have changed. You use it only on nearly dead stacks. If you use it earlier in big battle it will mean more losses than benefits.
Some people still remember it as a game breaker but the truth is that its not a game breaker anymore. Its a decent spell but nothing broken anymore. Now, game breaking spells for necro are: Phoenix, Puppet master and Frenzy
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted May 09, 2007 08:27 AM |
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wow, you ressurected 25 vamplords, too bad my shower killed 70, along with 20 wraights and 40 liches :-X
Also, against haven, you want to ressurect 8 wights when paladins can kill 40 with one hit? What for? they will die anyway. better do something against that mosntrous paladin stack.
or, against elves? If half of your army lies dead after the first lucky+avenger strike, will you ressurect a tiny bit just to get washed away in the next elves attack?
There is almost always something better to do instead of casting this spell.
It can help a lot in the earlygame, as I mentioned before,and it's wonderful for creeping, but come on, calling it "imbalanced" or the whole faction "imbalanced" because they start with this spell is just.. plain wrong.
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sq79
Famous Hero
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posted May 09, 2007 08:41 AM |
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Edited by sq79 at 08:44, 09 May 2007.
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I think they are mentioning about a long battle when both side heroes run out of mana, motn + raise dead will make the difference to win game..
Casting raise dead in first hero turn during final battle is quite a bad move, maybe the vladimir in version 1.0 will 
I remember he can raise 5-600 skellie archers/turn
I feel the necro of 2.0 and below is abit too overpowered especially in single town maps.. Don't really need any tactics to play them 
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted May 09, 2007 08:49 AM |
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yeah the old necro with old vladmir was a joke 
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted May 09, 2007 09:36 AM |
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The point is, a necromancer want to attack when his raise dead is still powerful. If raise dead sucks in final battle that means a necromancer sucks in final battle because he just dies too fast.
Puppet and frenzy are obviously very powerful but they can be resisted. It's better to be aware of it and, for example, cast mass spells(mass slow) first to "see" approximately how much resistance an opponent has.
Phoenix may be really nice with his shiny arcane armor + raise dead and with power of speed it may become a true killing machine.
Anyway, mass haste and mass slow are generally the most powerful spells in the game so I'd almost always aim for power of speed/master of wrath and master of mind. Striking first more = win.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted May 09, 2007 09:46 AM |
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Quote:
Striking first more = win.
hey, there are exceptions: pure magic dungeon and defensive fortress
necro indeed needs some fast attack, and that's where raise dead helps, true. That just doesn't make it imba, that's all I wanted to say 
"raise dead sucks" of course applies to later stages of the game where it really DOES suck. Besides, arcanearmor can be cleansed, so you won't impress factions such as haven
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sq79
Famous Hero
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posted May 09, 2007 10:09 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Striking first more = win.
hey, there are exceptions: pure magic dungeon and defensive fortress
necro indeed needs some fast attack, and that's where raise dead helps, true. That just doesn't make it imba, that's all I wanted to say
"raise dead sucks" of course applies to later stages of the game where it really DOES suck. Besides, arcanearmor can be cleansed, so you won't impress factions such as haven
Unfortunely, mass haste + divine guidance on moraled paladins is gonna be a terror even if arcane armour or phoenix is used. Give them 7 turns and they will end game in 7 turns 
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted May 09, 2007 12:16 PM |
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Well paladins with training and light magic are a class of their own. They smash everything anyway and shouldn't be even taken into consideration
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted May 09, 2007 02:01 PM |
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Yep, in haven vs necro "rush or lose" rule applies. A necromancer should attack while his phoenix is still strong enough to make a difference. So, it's best to use Naadir and rush. His starting skills and special will conquer the map really quickly. Mass haste blocker Zoltan may be better with his "permanent" mass slow but still it's a ~50% gamble.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted May 09, 2007 02:24 PM |
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Zoltan may be still effective, though. Unfortunately, he does not block the whole spell, but separetely normal, empowered and mass version of it 
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Destro23
Promising
Famous Hero
Keeper of GrongGrong
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posted May 09, 2007 05:30 PM |
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The only time I've really had much success with Zoltan was in mirror matchs, necro vs necro a block of phoenix, Armor, Elemental, Raise Dead, or any big power spell is a huge bonus for you.
Zoltan vs Dungeon is silly anyway.. everyone knows those cowards will just run away tails tucked between their legs snickering about that big big meteor they cast before they left And Zoltan only blocks spells while he remains on the combat feild.
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 09, 2007 05:33 PM |
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Hehe yeah thats true , zoltan vs dungeon isnt very good. But blocking teh cleasning is always nice
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted May 09, 2007 07:36 PM |
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I used to test zoltan in the past, but he needs to block mass cleansing, then cleansing, and THEN finally you can cast the puppet master.. no, wait, paladins still can layhand it away. Shucks.
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sdfx
Famous Hero
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posted May 09, 2007 08:53 PM |
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Zoltan vs haven is all about blocking mass haste anyway.
Mass hasted, 16.8 initiative paladins will simply own Zoltan's army in no time.
Mass slowed, 7 initiative paladins will suck. Zoltan will have time to block cleansing, time to cast frenzy, time to cast other mass spells, time to block paladins, time to raise dead.. simply put - time to own paladins.
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 09, 2007 09:19 PM |
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lol i wonder what the rest of haven units will be doing in the mean time
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Istari
Known Hero
Truth Teller, ToH
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posted May 09, 2007 10:03 PM |
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Gold is a limited resource. There won't be MASS paladins andMASS other Haven troops. And you are wrong about Lay Hands. The Haven player will likely have a large stack of paladins for fighting and a small stack for cleansing. Just kill the small stack and puppet the large stack. If they are two evenly large stacks, there either isn't much else of an army (no $) or its extremely late game and your army should be masseive too.
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Opinions are immunity to being told you're wrong.
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PhoenixReborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted May 09, 2007 10:07 PM |
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Is anyone else concerned about the lack of dark energy points in 1.5?
Playing Peninsula I rushed to get the pillar of bones by the end of the first week. The description says it adds 150 points but it only adds 20 de points.
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Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
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