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antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted April 17, 2008 04:30 PM |
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Anti-zionism is against the creation of the Israeli state. You know, there are even Jewish anti-zionists, but none are anti-semitic.
I had a reason i asked this mvs.
Jewish anti-zeonists are the orthdox jews,also 'Dos' becouse they belive that only massiah could bring the creation of the coubntry, but none jewish anti-zeonists can quite be called anti-semites.
Therefore I interpet Mvs Anti-zeonism,as my antipaladinsm,and anti-jew,
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types in obscure english
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted April 17, 2008 05:35 PM |
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I found this video on youtube and it fits with this discussion about the Holocaust and Jewish people and all that. Feel free to have a look:
Holocaust Video
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted April 17, 2008 07:02 PM |
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Quote:
Jewish anti-zeonists are the orthdox jews,also 'Dos' becouse they belive that only massiah could bring the creation of the coubntry, but none jewish anti-zeonists can quite be called anti-semites.
Therefore I interpet Mvs Anti-zeonism,as my antipaladinsm,and anti-jew,
Not true. Anti-zionism by definition is objection to the creation of Jewish settlement/state in the land of Israel. I wouldn't be surprised if there are non-religious Jews who are anti-zionist (there are for a fact many non-zionist Jews). Also, you really have to make a difference between a state and nationality - Israelis and Jews are not neccessary the same people, so anti-zionists and anti-semists are not neccessary the same people either.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted April 17, 2008 07:29 PM |
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Israelis and Jews are not neccessary the same people
This is an excellent point. 
More than 7.2 million people live in Israel, but only 5,421,400 are Jews. There are more than 1.7 million arabs who live in Israel. The rest are Druse, Christians and Bedouin.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted April 17, 2008 07:39 PM |
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Edited by Lexxan at 19:41, 17 Apr 2008.
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OOPS YOU DID IT AGAIN !
YOU POST IN HERE
ADDITION OVERLOAD
OH-BABY-BABY!
 GL
Seriously I thought the thread was about MUSLIM TERRORISTS, not Jews, Isrealis and their connection, although the thing happened to them are really horrible...
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted April 17, 2008 07:45 PM |
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LOL. 
To your question: We're discussing about Israel, which is under terrorist attacks (rockets on Sderot, a city is the south, and once per a while a suicide bomber). These attacks are executed by Palestinians, which are Muslims, what brings the question if Muslims are terrorists. Though I think that almost everyone here have already agreed that there are terrorist among the Muslims, but not all the Muslims are terrorists.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted April 17, 2008 08:17 PM |
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More than 7.2 million people live in Israel, but only 5,421,400 are Jews. There are more than 1.7 million arabs who live in Israel. The rest are Druse, Christians and Bedouin.
You're making such a mess of Religions and Nations here.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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pandora
Honorable
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The Chosen One
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posted April 17, 2008 08:19 PM |
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It seems that regardless of what the topic is, somehow every thread will eventually become the same thing.
Apparently that's the new nature of the OSM.
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted April 17, 2008 08:32 PM |
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Edited by Lexxan at 20:32, 17 Apr 2008.
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Quote:
It seems that regardless of what the topic is, somehow every thread will eventually become the same thing.
Apparently that's the new nature of the OSM.
I agree Pan, but thats why GL started the "return to the good side of the monitor"-thread
Wow!, Isreal is a stew of different religions, fitted in a way-too-small pot. No wonder it often overcooks and explodes. All that is need to delay or maybe destroy the problem is mutual respect, constant vigilance and enough wisdom on both sides to accept their own mistakes and eachother's differences. I portray it like it is easiliy, but it isn't that easy at all. Both sides have to swallow some pride before peace can reighn.
<*Damn-I'm turning into quite an addict myself-maybe I should take thing slowly-NOT! *>
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted April 17, 2008 09:15 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
More than 7.2 million people live in Israel, but only 5,421,400 are Jews. There are more than 1.7 million arabs who live in Israel. The rest are Druse, Christians and Bedouin.
You're making such a mess of Religions and Nations here.
Yes, there are also Chritstian arabs and. I meant that there are more than 1.7 Muslim arabs, and only a few Christians, whether they are arabs or not.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 17, 2008 09:23 PM |
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Therefore I interpet Mvs Anti-zeonism,as my antipaladinsm,and anti-jew,
No offense, antipaladin, but I don't understand this statement. Could you please rephrase it? I know you're dysgraphic, but I can't understand what you wrote here. Again, no offense.
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Eccentric Opinion
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted April 18, 2008 12:43 PM |
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Quote:
So your concept is: I will rob a bank and kill all people there. Give the money to my daughter. Then I kill myself. All fine.
No. The concept is, I rob a bank and kill all people there. Give money to my daughter. She buys a house and a whole bunch of stuff with it. 10 years later, they ask for the money back.
She (your daughter in this example) should feel guilty, not because of what she has done (even though she did buy a house with their money), but because she used the money -- it doesn't matter what her father did at all, unless she used the money.
Therefore, the bank-guys (or their ghosts, because aren't they supposed to be dead? or are we talking about their children) should ask for the money back, but be reasonable about it -- that is, not go against her because she did it unintentionally. However, that does not mean that she should ignore their request, because it is exactly that which makes her guilty (not what her father did). It is their money. She should understand that. Even though she did not do it intentionally, she should do something now that she knows.
This is the difference.
(of course this was only about this example -- applying it to the 'nations' is a bit more complicated).
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Democracy has several flaws, but it's the best form of government available.
How can you measure the 'best'?
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted April 18, 2008 12:49 PM |
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How can you measure the 'best'?
It's like evolution survival of the fittest. So far democracy has been the "fittest". Eventually there will come an even fitter system . Eventhough I like democracy... the only thing that is "slightly" out of hand is capitalism.
Sorry for the offtopic .
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted April 18, 2008 01:17 PM |
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Too often I feel that democracy is merely theatre for the masses.
off topic ramble, sorry.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 18, 2008 02:05 PM |
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It is their money.
No, it's not. They're not the ones who lost it, and she's not the one who stole it. I don't see why they (the bank guys' children) are entitled to something that they never had.
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How can you measure the 'best'?
A good democracy (I'm not talking about corrupt semi-democracies) reflects the will of the majority of the people.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted April 18, 2008 02:16 PM |
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A good democracy (I'm not talking about corrupt semi-democracies) reflects the will of the majority of the people.
It doesn't. Look at the results in Germanys and here in Japans recent elections. Or are those not "good" democracys?
Sorry that was my last off topic post here!
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted April 18, 2008 02:19 PM |
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No, it's not. They're not the ones who lost it, and she's not the one who stole it. I don't see why they (the bank guys' children) are entitled to something that they never had.
What do you mean by "they never had". If it was their parent's money, then it is theirs too. Do you think people are foolish enough to believe that someone can not use this kind of 'strategy' to impose the 'right' to take someone else's stuff (including freedom for example). It's not all black and white!
Here's one simple example I thought (but I may find better ones):
A Thief kills the owner of something -- and gives everything he stole to his boss, then kills himself (of the Boss kills him). Does that make the Boss "entitled" to the stuff? (what would the owner's children think)
(also note we are not discussing whether the boss is guilty for killing the thief or not, but whether the boss is entitled for the stuff).
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A good democracy (I'm not talking about corrupt semi-democracies) reflects the will of the majority of the people.
So.. if the majority are terrorists, then does that mean democracy is good?
also, majority doesn't necessarily mean 'best' -- and individualism is a thing that democracy doesn't put much weight upon. So IMO it's certainly not the best.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 18, 2008 09:48 PM |
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Look at the results in Germanys and here in Japans recent elections. Or are those not "good" democracys?
What? A plurality of Japanese voters voted for the LDP, so the LDP won. What's wrong with that?
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Does that make the Boss "entitled" to the stuff?
If he hired the thief, it would be as if he had stolen it himself. If, however, it was given to him, it would be unfair to take it away. After all, he had done nothing wrong.
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So.. if the majority are terrorists, then does that mean democracy is good?
What? I'm sorry, but this doesn't make sense. Could you clarify?
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also, majority doesn't necessarily mean 'best' -- and individualism is a thing that democracy doesn't put much weight upon.
A good democracy also doesn't infringe on the individual and the minority.
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So IMO it's certainly not the best.
Can you name a better system?
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Eccentric Opinion
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted April 19, 2008 07:42 AM |
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Well there is a law about recieving stolen property (no matter how many times it changed hands). However, we are not talking something as simple as that. We are talking generations. Before I go back on the original topic lets take stolen pirate treasure.
The pirates steal from oh lets say a tax galleon. They get caught and sunk to the bottom of the sea. Generations pass (lets say...200 years), and somebody finds it. Are they then responsible for what the pirates did? Lets say by some miricle they are even related to the pirates. Still doesn't change anything. It's not really simple anymore (and this coming from somebody who has more american indian blood in them then anything). I wish it was that simple, but it is not.
As unfavorable as this statement is going to be..there have been more then just a few peoples wronged in history. Not just the blacks, or the jewish, or etc. Many, and in many ways. Trying to say that one has been treated worse then the others is again trying to put more value on one life over another.
I do feel for them, and think that any injustice is terrible. It maybe time to forgive (not forget, but forgive) however. My people will NEVER get back our lands. Ever. While that truely stinks, it's been a long long time. It's time to give up our grudges and move on with our lives. (Don't worry, I will pass out free rocks for the stoning that these statements will probably cause).
Now back ontopic. Not all Muslims are terrorist, and not all Terrorist are Muslim. In away we all face terrorist everyday. People who use power, wealth, or livelyhood over our heads. They use fear (in various ways) to keep us in line. Fear of jail, or poverty, or loosing our jobs ensures that we do what they want.
Now what is a terrorist. Somebody who tries to use terror (fear) to get you to do what they want. So there are a lot of terrorist out there. The worse, yeah they wear bombs and blow themselves up. They use racism, religion, or other fear tactics to get what they want. A convient scapegoat for whatever they are doing, to draw attention away from it.
Not enough jobs? 'X' population is taking it from you. Prices too high? 'x' country is to blame, or 'x' religion, or etc. Child sick? Well 'x' group of people must be bringing the sickness here, we have to get rid of them.
People say we are free. We are not. Not till we are free from fear, free from hate, and free from terrorist. Here is something ya got to know though. It's a huge secret. When you stop being afraid...the terrorist stop being able to control you. Sure, they can harm you, but they no longer can control you.
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Message received.
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TitaniumAlloy
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Professional
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posted April 19, 2008 08:14 AM |
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Benevolent dictatorship
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John says to live above hell.
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This thread is pages long: 
