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hippox89
Famous Hero
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posted July 02, 2013 08:46 AM |
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Edited by hippox89 at 14:49, 02 Jul 2013.
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I have to throw out some hard critique of this project.
When I began reading about Horn of the Abyss I hoped the aim was to make a high quality expansion that could go for an official expansion. But, from what I've seen, so far, this mod seems to be aiming to be another WoG. More of a 'Heroes 3.5: Horn of the Abyss' and less 'Heroes 3: Horn of the Abyss', it seems.
Let me explain some of it:
''Commanders''
This is a radical change, no doubt, to the original core formula. How this will change the original core experience worries me.
''Unit stack experience''
I don’t see how this’ll add anything good to the game. Units without experience already made perfect sense. More creatures = better. It doesn’t need to be more complicated than that. I just think it’ll make comebacks much harder because if you lose your experienced creature stacks you're not just behind on numbers, but also experience. This is another radical change in my book.
''Town Keepers''
So now you cannot even sneak a low level hero into an enemy’s castle to buy his creatures? A classical example of ‘You add some, you lose some.’, I guess. It'd have made more design sense to be able raze a single building per day starting with the lower level buildings and up without the need for a level/creature requirement, unlike in WoG. But I am not even sure about this.
''Up to 150 new artifacts''
Maybe for 3 new towns 150+ artifacts will be fine, but I am worried that 150+ artifacts is too much. Why not aim for less? Quality over quantity. And it’d be less of a mess, easier to balance. It seems a bit much to me. I am not quite sure about this, though.
''New siege machines''
A radical change that is optional? Thank god. No obligatory, radical changes please.
Also, I noticed how some WoG resources have made into HotA. Why change how Pikemen, Orc, etc, looks? Changes for changes sake? I don’t get it.
''Our main direction is to create the classical add-on. In the point 1 we’ve explained what we understand by the term “quality”, but what do we understand by the term “classical”? Let us give you an example – the original Heroes III add-on – The Armageddon’s Blade - included new monsters, new landscapes, new artifacts and as the “main dish” - the new town. But the original Heroes style and gameplay remained the same in the add-on. The same we can say about the HotA. The main tendency for it is the development and improvement of traditional game elements instead of making something absolutely new and sometimes out of style. Also we work on the technical progress of the game we are going to improve some graphics and the interface’’
Not quite true, is it? But it is an excellent definition of how a classical addon should be.
Now what I like:
*A brand new, very high quality town with its own resources (music, artifacts, spells, dwellings, terrain, objects, ect) for the map editor/generator. Awesome.
*Radical changes, at least one? of them, that you can turn off. Awesome. No one gets hurts, all wins.
*Fully compatible with HDmod? Awesome.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted July 02, 2013 09:02 AM |
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2008 wishes, none is in, game play is 100% SoD. Playing before criticizing is a good way to avoid the ridiculo meter exploding.
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Era II mods and utilities
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hippox89
Famous Hero
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posted July 02, 2013 09:09 AM |
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Edited by hippox89 at 09:24, 02 Jul 2013.
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Quote:
2008 wishes, none is in, game play is 100% SoD. Playing before criticizing is a good way to avoid the ridiculo meter exploding.
I have played a bit of v1.2. So you're wrong. But it's hard to know which features are just not in yet, and which ones is completely off the board. But I am glad to hear it, though. 
Edit: Anyhow, why not remove the old English info then. It'll only confuse people. Just direct to the Russian board or something.
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted July 02, 2013 09:38 AM |
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Quote:
Now what I like:
*A brand new, very high quality town with its own resources (music, artifacts, spells, dwellings, terrain, objects, ect) for the map editor/generator. Awesome.
It will take another five years.
To me it's sufficient to have new town, not high quality and without graphical whistles.
So I'll wait for HotA Forge (don't think I will wait so long to see Cathedral or Kronwerk).
I play Heroes 3 for strategy and mod possibilities, graphics is only matter to some casual sibarites, I think.
I think, it's opposite - HotA crew wants too much quality, so it's turning to some "dolgostroy" (long time building with no result).
It's will be better to have fast releases and then fixing graphics and etc in maintain mode.
But this is not for HotA, sadly.
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hippox89
Famous Hero
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posted July 02, 2013 09:57 AM |
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Edited by hippox89 at 10:04, 02 Jul 2013.
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Quote:
Quote:
Now what I like:
*A brand new, very high quality town with its own resources (music, artifacts, spells, dwellings, terrain, objects, ect) for the map editor/generator. Awesome.
It will take another five years.
To me it's sufficient to have new town, not high quality and without graphical whistles.
So I'll wait for HotA Forge (don't think I will wait so long to see Cathedral or Kronwerk).
I play Heroes 3 for strategy and mod possibilities, graphics is only matter to some casual sibarites, I think.
I think, it's opposite - HotA crew wants too much quality, so it's turning to some "dolgostroy" (long time building with no result).
It's will be better to have fast releases and then fixing graphics and etc in maintain mode.
But this is not for HotA, sadly.
Well, I meant that the content is already very high at this point. But I'm sure it has taken a very long time, too, yes. So I get what you're saying. I myself wishes less (a lot less even), but high quality/balanced content that fits the original setting rather tightly, though.
Of course if you spend much time on something that, in the end, have to be changed anyhow because of whatever reason, time is wasted. So it makes sense to design/make things roughly and only then qualitify the presentation, I agree.
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted July 03, 2013 10:19 AM |
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I am again about HOTA Forge siege screen:
http://heroes3towns.com/?town=forge_3&page=arts
Can someone cut these pictures to prepare siege screen files pack?
http://heroes3towns.com/towns/forge_3/screenshot_01.png
http://heroes3towns.com/towns/forge_3/screenshot_02.png
I didn't succeeded in this (tried two times).Did someone do this for his town?
For easier cutting I propose to not cut wall to small pictures, but to create 800X556 full screen wall cadres with "transparent" (standart blue colour) background.
Do someone wants to do this?
I don't believe HotA crew will share this alpha siege screen with us, so don't even ask them...
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Erathianer
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 04, 2013 06:23 AM |
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the only thing i want is just the english transaltion and the complete hota map editor, then i am happy
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revolut1oN
Famous Hero
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posted July 04, 2013 08:46 AM |
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Hippox, why are you complaining about things which ARE NOT in HotA and ARE NOT GOING TO BE in HotA?
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted July 04, 2013 09:30 AM |
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Quote:
Hippox, why are you complaining about things which ARE NOT in HotA and ARE NOT GOING TO BE in HotA?
These things were written on first page, so he criticized them.
And why they will not be in HOTA sometime?
Alternatives are discussed on DF2 yet now. Commander for Cove was made (but not get into 1.0-1.2). It's just functional, that don't yet implemented in EXE.
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hippox89
Famous Hero
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posted July 04, 2013 11:14 AM |
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Edited by hippox89 at 11:31, 04 Jul 2013.
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Quote:
Quote:
Hippox, why are you complaining about things which ARE NOT in HotA and ARE NOT GOING TO BE in HotA?
These things were written on first page, so he criticized them.
And why they will not be in HOTA sometime?
Alternatives are discussed on DF2 yet now. Commander for Cove was made (but not get into 1.0-1.2). It's just functional, that don't yet implemented in EXE.
They should really clean up the English HotA page a bit. They really only need a short presentation, a working link for the latest version and a link to the Russian forum. It seems worth the small effect to reach out to the English speaking crowd. But that info I commented on was updated/cleaned up in 2012, however, it was by a mod, maybe not really official info then, I guess.
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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted July 04, 2013 01:29 PM |
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Quote:
Commander for Cove was made
He was? Oh, you mean this little gif shown five years ago? Yeah, the whole commander, of course.
Quote:
They should really clean up the English HotA page a bit.
It IS cleaned up. Did you read first page of this topic? 
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Horn of the
Abyss on AcidCave
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted July 04, 2013 02:16 PM |
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Well, it's actually the second post which contains those outdated information.
The very first post as well as the download link isn't exactly fresh either.
But then there is still your info page!
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted July 04, 2013 02:18 PM |
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Edited by Macron1 at 14:20, 04 Jul 2013.
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Quote:
Oh, you mean this little gif shown five years ago? Yeah, the whole commander, of course.
A've talked about commanders, and HotA crew member said commander exists in form of DEF.
It's not in mod only because WOG functionality missing in EXE.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted July 04, 2013 04:32 PM |
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Quote:
Well, it's actually the second post which contains those outdated information.
But it's clear that is outdated:
Quote:
MOD NOTE: This content is an archived form of the original first post in this thread, added by Hippocamus - not Docent Picolan - in May 2008. It is by now out-of-date, and has been replaced by a more current synopsis of the mod.
People should learn to read lol
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Erathianer
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 06, 2013 01:02 AM |
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has someboday some information when the hota map editor will be released?
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted July 06, 2013 08:23 AM |
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Quote:
has someboday some information when the hota map editor will be released?
Don't think it will be in near future.
On DF2 only talks are going, that it will be good to do it.
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted July 06, 2013 03:33 PM |
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Edited by Macron1 at 15:27, 20 Aug 2013.
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Again, i'd like to publish another HOTA team member post, where he is talking about thievery:
Zenofex:
(original) "Ты бестолковый? Я сказал, что отвечать тебе больше не намерен. Но если тебе очень интересно, то поясню. Вся графика, которую ты используешь сознана не тобой, соответственно ты ее стырил. Бабушка, которая в гиппермаркете полы машинкой натирает, тоже "использует инструмент", но она ни разу не "творец".
(translation) "Are you stoopid? I said I want to answer you no more. SO if you are interested, i'll explain. All graphics, that you are using, are not created by you, so you have thieved it. Grandmother, when cleaning floors in hypermarket, also uses "tool", but not creates anything"
Isn't mod's nature is to take some graphics or new program logic and add it to Heroes?
This snow spirit is cultivated among HOTA crew members for so long. Grove and Modern Forge they advise to redraw from scratch, Romanian Town don't even count as new town, HOL also serves as source of jokes on DF2.
They feed and enlarge their megalomania and pride. In their ideal world there only one mod exists - HOTA.
So usual modder must think twice before using any HOTA graphics in his mod. It's like negotiating with Caddafi, or sponsoring nuclear weapons program in North Korea. Do you wanna became thief?
On one hand, HOTA crew talks about permission of use their graphics freely. On other hand, when you use their graphics, they begin to talk about "specifics of using their graphics" and about thievery.
Do we really need another one Forge (instead of already existing more that 3 forges) at price of ruining modders atmosphere of mutual respect? HOTA crew plagues heroes modders community with FUD and hatred.
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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted July 06, 2013 03:59 PM |
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I'm not really sure what you're talking about, but let me clarify something:
Quote:
On one hand, HOTA crew talks about permission of use their graphics freely. On other hand, when you use their graphics, they begin to talk about "specifics of using their graphics" and about thievery.
Don't you see any difference between using these graphics that are already published and "playable" (like new objects from HotA 1.2) and these that aren't ready yet (like from some screenshots of HotA Forge)? When it comes to first ones, as an author I wouldn't care if you used it anywhere - just recall me in credits. But if I'm still working on such thing yet somehow my just presented but still not ready arts are used in someone's work without my permission, I'll be mad at you.
Now you understand?
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Horn of the
Abyss on AcidCave
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted July 06, 2013 04:30 PM |
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Edited by Macron1 at 17:01, 06 Jul 2013.
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Quote:
Now you understand?
It's not about some graphics from screenshots.
It's about whole process of using graphics. Regardless of with permission or without permission, rips of open common materials, HOTA's or not (Abyss is not HOTA town).
I'm blamed in whole, not on concrete case. Actually thread began with talk about Abyss.
I asked several times Axolotl about permission of sharing it. Didn't get NO, but something like I WILL NOT BE AGAINST IT.
Then on DF2 forum began some replics about "Macron specifics of using graphics" (http://forum.df2.ru/index.php?s=&showtopic=28170&view=findpost&p=605310)
After some bloody fight here
http://wforum.heroes35.net/showthread.php?tid=636&page=83
Axolotl finally said it's true permission:
http://wforum.heroes35.net/showthread.php?tid=636&pid=79272#pid79272
"1- Я не запрещаю использовать ресурсы Пучины, как Рипы так и мои собственные модели. То же и по другим моим работам. (В некоммерческих целях - конечно)
2 - Но к лично твоим поделкам - отношение негативное, но не смотря на это запрета нет - пользуй, выкладывай.
2.5 - Авторство просьба указать (в Пучине Авторские - Портреты, Большая часть объектов на карте и экране города и осады.
Существа - Рипы, но многие сильно модифицированные, Некоторая анимация - своя, эффекты - все свои)
4 - К Релизу именно Альтернативной Пучины целиком, до основного релиза - отношение разное, смотря кто предложит и как он это хочет сделать."
So I again got permission, but with text "your works are snow".
So I wrote you If Acid Cave modders want to improve it (Axolotl praised polish modders).
Then I again was attacked by HOTA crew member:
http://wforum.heroes35.net/showthread.php?tid=636&pid=79286#pid79286
and again was accused on "useless work don't mean snow" and "thieving"
(you can think out he is root HOTA member, when you read his posts - like talks about adding 10th town and publishing old beta of HOTA).
I think it's some programmer from HOTA crew (possible, feanor or Уэф).
PS Actually I wanted Necroforge town based on heroes3towns graphics/screenshots. But wrote to Don Kommandor/Лентяй about permission and still didn't get answer.
PPS SO HERE I SAY, THAT I WILL NO MORE SHARE ANY MODS, THAT USE ANY HOTA GRAPHICS. IF I'LL DO THIS, THIS WILL BE BY MISTAKE OR BY SOME PERSONAL PERMISSION. I WILL BOYCOTT WHOLE HOTA WORKS IN MODS THAT I WILL SOMETIME SHARE, SO LET THEY THEMSELVES USE THEIR WORKS, IF THEY ARE SO PROUD OF THEM.
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Enzan
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 06, 2013 05:21 PM |
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This thread is pages long: 
