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Thread: Give Them A Starting Chance | |
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PsyrenJ
Hired Hero
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posted August 31, 2008 05:34 PM |
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Give Them A Starting Chance
Lets face it... A huge portion of the the HOMM5 heroes just SUCK as starting heroes... I mean with the exception of me now, who else is crazy enough to use Jezebeth as there starter.
Anywhooooooooo... What I want to discuss in this thread is the possibility of actually modifying some of the "lame" heroes abilities so that all the heroes in HOMM5 have a fair starting chance.
Seriously, the Necropolis actually have a good range of starters except for the lame zombie guy. Then we go over to Haven and all we see is HOMM3-ish heroes in 3d?!?!? .
**** NOW THEN - I'll begin this thread with the Inferno ***
To be honest almost all their heroes have some use (scrap that creep snow Deleb), but the fatal flaw here is that some of their abilities are too specialized.
As Im not a veteran player as such and Im not actually aware of the strategies the veteran Inferno players employ, but I think that ACTUALLY going for there final ability isnt a bad idea. The skill set required for there final skill is actually good
Possible changes...
Alastor - Should just drop their MP to zero. end of story.
Nymus - Nymus should just die and be reborn as Biara
Jezebeth - I donno , but compared to Ingvar, all creature heroes except for Dugal, Laslo, and Ossir kinda suck...
Nebiros - Had the "Chosen One" been able to live up to his name, he would be able to get the Inferno's final ability. Other than that he used to be a good counter to the Dungeon's old Tactics game, but I donno about now
In time I hope that we can discuss all the bases, and another thing... the purpose of this discussion is to come up with ideas to give heroes inprovements on what they already have so as to make them good starters and in the end a solid main hero but within the realm of balance of course, try to keep all the "Other" gameplay issues to a minimum .
Hope to hear what you think
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MarcusX
Known Hero
*happyface*
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posted August 31, 2008 07:07 PM |
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I like deleb quite a bit in fact. No one argues with her flaming trip shot ballista it basicly gives the inferno another ranged unit that no one really attacks. how is that bad?
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I use big words to make myself
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 31, 2008 07:18 PM |
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I've often heard complaints about starting heroes and have entertained such thoughts myself - hard not to when you play random all the time But usually it's not so much that they are bad, just that I personally dislike some heroes. And of course the fact that some are well above average that can give an edge to the opponent when you get one that is merely average.
Anyways on what you suggested:
Alastor's dropping mp to zero is unrealistic and imbalanced. But I'd prefer he didn't have sorcery. Not that it is bad mind you.
Jejebeth's special is not a week 1 helper. It pays of later, as for Ingvar he's kinda imbalanced and doesn't count.
Nebiros rocks anyway
If any inferno hero would need a change that would be Grawl. Btw you may see some similar ideas here and here.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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PsyrenJ
Hired Hero
Need 180 HP S.Mistress 4 Hire?
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posted August 31, 2008 08:06 PM |
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Too true Elvin,
Grawl is only good as a hiring hero (Kinda lyk the dungeon getting Ellaine at the tavern)...
I totally forgot bout the skill-sets of the hero's
But seriously is there an "Official" hero-balancing mod that y'all use???
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 31, 2008 08:10 PM |
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Nah that thread was just a suggestion. It's hard to get people to agree one one mod, especially on toh As for Ellaine on dungeon she wouldn't be a bad secondary. With recruitment she'd give +2 furies per week which is pretty decent.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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PsyrenJ
Hired Hero
Need 180 HP S.Mistress 4 Hire?
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posted August 31, 2008 08:17 PM |
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So would you say that it is not really the Inferno's heroes that need powerups (Except doggy boy) but rather that the "more colourful" heroes need alittle less colour?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 31, 2008 09:01 PM |
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A bit of both really. For instance Yrbeth is a terrible dungeon hero both in starting skills and special while Nebiros is decent but still not so good as compared to Deleb. He is not bad at all but will have worse creeping than Deleb most of the time. There is simply a big gap between the creeping of starting heroes as not all combinations help in creeping.
Of course a hero's worth is dictated by the map, not all are creeping intensive or give you enough time to develop. Peninsula is strictly a rushing map so destructive casters/warmachine users have an edge while in dragon hill the earlygame will not decide the outcome since you are given sufficient time to develop before the final fight.
You simply avoid certain matchups because the game is not balanced under all situations.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted August 31, 2008 09:05 PM |
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Yrbeth is not that horrible in early game since at least she starts with Eldritch Arrow, but her specialty and starting skills are horrible.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 31, 2008 09:10 PM |
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I'd still prefer to get ANY other hero
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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PsyrenJ
Hired Hero
Need 180 HP S.Mistress 4 Hire?
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posted August 31, 2008 09:10 PM |
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OK... since you're on the topic of dungeon heroes, don't you think that Dark Ritual chic should get an added benefit of only losing 75% of her movement to use Dark Ritual , I more bet people would actully find a use for her then.
And one other thing. Why the heck did Nival like make Vayshaan lose like 20-sum of his starting Assassins... that is like sooooooooooo unfair much (That's what Clover would have said)
And I think Leadership->Recruitment would be an amazing starter for the Dungeon, if you do the math. The Dungeon are already at like a 60% disadvantage in creature growth.
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Darkshadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted August 31, 2008 09:16 PM |
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Maybe talk about Orson, Raven, Zoltan and Vlad? ^_^
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted August 31, 2008 09:18 PM |
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Quote: I'd still prefer to get ANY other hero
I agree, because her specialty and dark magic skill sucks and it's not a good idea to level her up.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted August 31, 2008 10:11 PM |
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Starting heroes.. hey, I have some ideas. Haven't posted a good LONG post here for ages! But I need to prepare first
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outshined
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 31, 2008 11:26 PM |
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Ossir is so much better at creeping than the other Sylvan heroes, it's not even funny. Wyngaal, Anwen, and Gilraen are alright, but the prior two are more chosen because they become good in the lategame rather than being exceptional creepers.
I think Ylthin is a really cool lategame hero for Sylvan, but I always have trouble getting from the creeping stage to the "horde of unstoppable pristine minidragons" stage. (on heroic, anyway, it is difficult to develop arcane archers and unicorns at the same time)
It really irks me that she has Light Magic as her starting skill, but doesn't start with a single spell in her book!
I think starting her with Regeneration would go a -long- way. This is such an important spell for syvlan creeping if you go the light magic route.
The other two options at level 2 aren't even in the same league. It sucks if you get another spell instead of Regen in the mage guild. Endurance? We have druids for that already. Cleansing? Use sprites or learn it with arcane intuition.
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PsyrenJ
Hired Hero
Need 180 HP S.Mistress 4 Hire?
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posted September 03, 2008 12:19 PM |
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Not much happend here while I was gone
Anywhooooo... I just came back from 2 days of binge playing Tribes of the East and WoW the boardgame (I hate the online game) non-stop...
Gotta say that 2 turn invisibilty is soooooooooooooooo not cool
Anyway all that playing I tell you what... If Eruina had a waaaaaay better percentage chance on her ability, Shadow Matriach's would be killer .
And Shadya should be a normal hero for the dungeon don't you think???
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 03, 2008 01:42 PM |
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Heck no, easy access to last stand. That would be really scary..
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted September 03, 2008 01:53 PM |
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Well maybe her starting skills should change then
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Zenithale
Promising
Famous Hero
Zen Mind
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posted September 03, 2008 01:54 PM |
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PsyrenJ
Hired Hero
Need 180 HP S.Mistress 4 Hire?
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posted September 04, 2008 06:26 AM |
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Now don't be silly, of course she'll have standard starting stats and standard skill points... But for the nature of the dungeon, I think Shadow Dancer is a great way to mitigate ranged damage vs. Blood Fury... The ability is good as well as balanced enough for use in standard gameplay... And having Defense with the Dungeon ain't that bad either
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PsyrenJ
Hired Hero
Need 180 HP S.Mistress 4 Hire?
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posted September 04, 2008 09:02 AM |
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Hey just checked your MOD details...
I guess everyone will agree that skill-swaps will go a long way in balancing a hero, but at the end of the day, a sucky hero ability is a sucky hero ability... Its like Loynis vs. the Shakti anyone???
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