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| Thread: mod for heroes |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT» |
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted August 18, 2008 12:12 AM |
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Edited by samiekl at 22:31, 07 Sep 2008.
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mod for heroes
i thought about making a mod for heroes' starting skills so we don't ban some of them anymore or curse our luck if getting a sucky hero. i also tried to set some of them in a way that we see some different tactics from time to time and i eliminated some heroes 2nd starting skill (2 starting skills are hard to manage). I will put my changes here and maybe we can come up with something that everyone agrees. Here they are:
Inferno
Grawl - starts with attack - battle frenzy
Alastor - starts with dark magic and consume corpse
Jezebeth - starts with sorcery - arcane training (to be able to get counterspell)
Marbas - starts with defense - vitality (to be able to get preparation)
Sylvan
Gilraen - starts with attack-battle frenzy
Anwen - starts with enlightenment - arcane intuition
Talanar - starts with basic warmachines - ballista
Wyngaal - starts with defense and leadership
Dungeon
Yrbeth - starts with sorcery
Eruina - starts with destruction + elemental vision
Sorgal - starts with tactics
Kythra - starts with recruitment
Academy
Razzak - starts with light - master of abjuration
Orcs
Haggash - starts with leadership (hope that she'll have hard time to get flaming ballista)
Kilghan - starts with attack-battle frenzy
Haven
Maeve - starts with light and benediction
Necro
Naadir - starts with summoning and eternal servitude
Raven - starts with dark and eternal servitude
Here's the dl link:
click
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Clay_Man
Known Hero
TOH gamer
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posted August 18, 2008 12:46 AM |
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My few cents...
Sylvan- I'm totally lost about Wyngaal  , And I think a native warmachine hero would be too strong for sylvan (easy imbue ballista+channeling can be sick)
Necro I didn't have any problems with Naadir's lvl-ups, but your suggestion is ok. Personally I wouldn't change Raven (maybe it's my personal bias since Raven's cold death saved my ass numerous times on smaller maps  )
Agreed about the rest, good ideas 
That said with my 8-2 record I'm not the most experienced Toh player...
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 18, 2008 12:55 AM |
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That's one of the reasons I don't play hero as often, some starting heroes are rather crappy. Some feedback:
Anwen - starts with advanced destruction
A destructive ranger would surely be nice.
Talanar - starts with basic warmachines - ballista
This I'm not so sure about. I suppose every faction has one.
Wyngaal - starts with defense and sorcery
Dislike.
Sorgal - starts with tactics
I'm sure you have already considered it but he can get mass haste asap. And tactics are not as needed with stalkers no?
Haggash - starts with leadership (hope that she'll have hard time to get flaming ballista)
Haven
Maeve - starts with light and benediction
She's pretty good as she is.
Naadir - starts with summoning and banshee howl
I suppose I'd prefer that he does not start with dark too but howl? Eternal servitude would be closer to his theme.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted August 18, 2008 01:11 AM |
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About sylvan, i'm trying to eliminate that logistics - luck - light - enlightenment - attack ranger on 100% of games. I think a warmachine hero would be ok (help in creeping too), even with imbue ballista (no more light if you get destruction and if the druids are dead you waste 2 skills so you'll have to play careful). With Wyngaal i was trying to make him playable. Perhaps sorcery was too harsh, maybe give him leadership instead of sorcery or anything besides those 5 skills?
About Sorgal, you don't need mass haste so early, and tactics will be more helpful for furies to strike in the first turn. It will also be helpful when he gets lizards.
Maeve has 2 good starting skills but haven needs to prioritize skills very much. Getting quicker mass haste will be better and leaves your development path easier.
About Naadir, don't care if he starts with howl, mark or servitude, just not 2 skills.
There are maps where you can't get high level spells, so Raven with destruction will suck there.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted August 18, 2008 11:20 AM |
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Edited by Lexxan at 11:21, 18 Aug 2008.
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Excellent choices Samiekl, but I have a few comments...
Anwen should start with Enlightement and Arcane Intuītion IMO
Talanar's War Machines is fine, but a Sylvan Hero starting with Ballista is a bit too much... I'd like Basic Leadership and Basic War machines instead.
Gilraen... Leadership, excellent... attack + Tactics, Better!!!
Dirael already starts with Wasp Swarm 
Wyngaal... Dislike! I suggest Logistics with Pathfinding, that blends better with his Specialty and Biography IMO.
Yrbeth should start with Logistics IMO.
And finally...
Naadir: I suggest Mark of the Necromancer instead of Banshee Howl.
Otherwise: EXCELLENT!!!
Note: Why is this in TOH? 
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted August 19, 2008 11:48 AM |
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It is in this forum because i expected the community to be more responsive to it and was meant for online gaming. But with this lack of feedback there's no point
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted August 19, 2008 12:02 PM |
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Edited by Lexxan at 12:02, 19 Aug 2008.
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I think there would me more response if put in the Workshop!
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Elit
Famous Hero
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posted August 19, 2008 12:16 PM |
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Quote:
I think there would me more response if put in the Workshop!
Post is here because its right place for it. This is possible mod for multiplayer games. In Workshop most ppl play vs AI.
Its very hard to make agreements from most ppl. I think suggestion samiekl for Wyngaal is good. Main idea is to make him less strong with less good skills. But from other side your view is right too:
Quote:
Wyngaal... Dislike! I suggest Logistics with Pathfinding, that blends better with his Specialty and Biography IMO.
I men its right about Biography but will make him alot more stronger and he will be baned again.
I realy cant say one hero is so bad and need to be change or second is so good. About Razzak. Defence is cool skill for him. No need to be changed.
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted August 19, 2008 12:37 PM |
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Well, that's what i'm talking about. I posted my changes to have a point of start. We can discuss it and see what stands for changing. I'm not Strider to impose my view on the game. So, for now, razzak remains as before, and wyngaal has leadership and defense. Let's continue and maybe we will not see anymore things like... "i got yrbeth vs ossir, of course i lost".
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insatiable
Supreme Hero
Ultimate N00bidity
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posted August 19, 2008 01:32 PM |
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seems such mod would be too personal, cant say this is good or this is bad..
and i didnt know, Haggash is a she? 
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted August 19, 2008 02:00 PM |
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It would be personal if we take those changes i made and call it a mod. But after a discussion i don't think it would be personal. For example, Elit says razzak is ok and he should say why is this ok. Why is defense so much helpful than let's say light. Now, don't tell me that, say you get talanar 1st day, and find in tavern ossir, you're gonna stick with talanar as main 'cause i won't believe you. I'm just trying to eliminate this.
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Vangelis21
Supreme Hero
Manchild
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posted August 21, 2008 06:01 PM |
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guys i have a question. now that version 3.1 is up, anyone still uses further mods?
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FoolishMan
Known Hero
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posted August 25, 2008 09:24 PM |
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as i see it this mod would try to balance things between heroes of same town
and for that i never seen anyone choose razzak over nur,havez or jhora
i guess the best starting skill for him would be leadership which you can get very hard with wizard but in his case would be very usefull and it would bring him to upper tier wizard heroes
barbarian : if someone can ban the initiative booster from haggash she would be pretty good but not that overpowering
demon : grawl would be better with leadership ,luck ,attack or defence (any would be fine)
dwarf: ingvar without hit point bonus would be fine again
erling could use some better skills early ,maybe attack or something
there are a bunch of heroes that none would choose over the more powerfull so if there is possibility to even the differences or to make some new possibilites for different tactics i agree with that
larry fanoga
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Zenithale
Promising
Famous Hero
Zen Mind
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posted September 03, 2008 01:56 PM |
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted September 03, 2008 02:11 PM |
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No offense, but that mod is just... wtf
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Zenithale
Promising
Famous Hero
Zen Mind
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posted September 03, 2008 03:08 PM |
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Quote:
No offense, but that mod is just... wtf
Can you detail your opinion?
There are minors changes +1/-1 stat just to add diversity and Role Play. Heroes with a poor specility gain 1 or 2 point(s) and warmichinists lose just 1 (because too easy creeping).
Heroes start with few more tier 3, like this war machines and magic skills become less indispensables.
About spells:
Svea gains Chain lightning to compensate for her pitiful speciality, but with only Knowledge 2 and a mage guild level 4 who can become useless.
Raven gains frost ring, Jezebeth gains Blade barrier and Dirael gains Summon hive, maybe too good, true. But on fan made map in ToH with a lot of "spell banks" I don't see a real problem.
I wish you explain your "strange" reaction. Thanks in advance.
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TWITCH|YouTube | NewArenas2023 MOD
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted September 03, 2008 03:37 PM |
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For starters, giving stats or taking stats is just plain wrong. Reason, for instance academy needs every point of knowledge it can get, instead you removed some. Another, you gave Razzak defense + leadership, worse start than this can't be. Jhora has advanced sorcery + her special it's just the best start for academy. She already is top hero, you just made her stronger. Yrbeth starting with advanced sorcery is bad again. Magic factions starting with advanced sorcery/logistics are too powerful. Lethos starts with -1 power, just as academy needs knowledge, dungeon needs spellpower. Don't mess with stats. Svea is a strong hero, not useless. Starting with destruction is very nice for dwarves' creeping, not need to mod her. Not to say, a level 4 spell... Same for Dirael. Wasping 3 favourite enemies is more than enough. She has easy access to fire warriors, too. Etc, etc
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted September 03, 2008 03:41 PM |
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This is somewhat subjective and I don't think Yrbeth starting with Sorcery is a bad idea, since her specialty is below average.Quote:
Svea is a strong hero, not useless.
Wow, are you kidding?
More useless than Svea's specialty I can't even find
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted September 03, 2008 03:48 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 15:49, 03 Sep 2008.
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you know samiekl, if these changes came from Nival, what would be your opinion about it? Still call it crappy? You think the game is balanced now, seriously? (i'm talking about Zenithale's mod)
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted September 03, 2008 04:46 PM |
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Quote:
you know samiekl, if these changes came from Nival, what would be your opinion about it? Still call it crappy? You think the game is balanced now, seriously? (
The things i wanted to modify came from Nival, right? I do think that some heroes are crappy compared to others (not unplayable though). Example, i can be as fast as Yrwanna with Yrbeth, it's only that Yrbeth doesn't give me options, while Yrwanna does. It's all about starting skills, not necessarily specials. If i were to pick heroes, do you think i'd pick Yrwanna for boosting furies? No, for starting with intelligence and enlightenment, things that all warlocks should have. I can't say the same thing for dark magic. Got it?
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