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rubycus
Known Hero
-student of the mind-
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posted September 12, 2008 09:46 AM |
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Quote:
Hmm... maybe you could tie their H5 rune racial with the forging stuff...
Like if normal custom made weapons only have limited effects Dwarves can forge runes into the weapons/armours/etc?
Sword of Dragon's Breath could become Runic Sword of Dragon's Breath 
How do you guys work that out? When the runes acctually are a written language??
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted September 12, 2008 11:55 AM |
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Huh? You just forge cool runewriting onto the artifact to give it more enchantments 
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted September 14, 2008 07:28 AM |
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Edited by william at 07:29, 14 Sep 2008.
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Quote:
Hmm... maybe, but I'd rather see:
3 normal materials can be forged into one Unusual Core.
3 unusual materials can be forged into one Rare Core.
Let's make a new rule here: Enchantments can't be more powerful than the core used in the Artifact. That means that you must have a Relic Core to use Relic Enchantments in it.
With the forge system above, you'd be able to get those cores that you need for your more powerful enchantments by sacrifing your weaker materials!
Well I like the ideas that you posted.  How about making the enchantments power somewhere in between a rare core and an unusual core regardless of the power of the core that is used in the artifact?
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted September 14, 2008 07:37 AM |
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Runes...are a written language...
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted September 24, 2008 08:07 PM |
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I'm not sure if I've explained this well enough, anyway...
In my system, the Core decides how powerful the enchantment will become once forged into an artifact. the Cores doesn't have enchantments.
An example.
I use the rare Shadowsteel as a Core, I choose shield as the form.
Shadowsteel uses 250% of an enchantments power
I choose a Blazing Ruby as an enchantment, its base bonus is a 20% fire resistance.
20 * 2.5 = 50.
The artifact is forged with a 50% resistance to fire.
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rubycus
Known Hero
-student of the mind-
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posted September 27, 2008 11:42 AM |
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But what powers are there in a written language?
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A prudent question is one-half of wisdom.
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted September 27, 2008 12:32 PM |
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Edited by Adrius at 12:34, 27 Sep 2008.
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Oh come on... there are many games that have runes with magical properties.
I know it's a written language, but that doesn't mean that dwarves can't make it magical.
Ever heard of magic scrolls?
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rubycus
Known Hero
-student of the mind-
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posted September 27, 2008 04:40 PM |
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all right, all right... ... ...a magic scroll is just a furmula ...
anyway, it is kind of cool seeing items like swords and shields with "secret" mysterious wriing on them..
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A prudent question is one-half of wisdom.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 27, 2008 08:55 PM |
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This sort of reminds me of the Wands from H4, which gives me an idea, what if you were able to create runes of a spell that would give you a certain number of free casts of that spell?
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted October 01, 2008 10:16 AM |
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Yes, Daystar is right, the Runes are letters of ancient German. But that has become a general name for arcane writing for spells. Anyway, they could have been done in a much more interesting way at H5, for example, putting ancient runes in scrolls and put them on the map as artifacts, or bury the most ancient and strong scroll as a grail, etc.
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rubycus
Known Hero
-student of the mind-
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posted October 01, 2008 11:53 AM |
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Quote:
Yes, Daystar is right.
Ehem...
...
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A prudent question is one-half of wisdom.
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broadstrong
Promising
Known Hero
Level 20 Vassal of Light
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posted October 29, 2008 03:00 PM |
bonus applied by GenieLord on 29 Oct 2008. |
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An interesting post on artifacts for H6, since there is hardly discussion in this thread for weeks, I, the artifact merchant-cum-craftsman, shall revive it (with some hopefully good ideas).
Adrius has proposed such a good basic system of artifact creation (in page 1, the one with QP), that some of my ideas are based on his system (and also other ideas throughout the thread).
Now I shall begin my discussion(not very long, I hope...P).
(1) Factions
I agree that every faction's hero should have a artifact-forging skill (artificer or some other name applicable to the faction). However, each faction should have different leans/ bonuses.
Adrius' discussion on forging could be a bonus for dwarven factions. Other faction-specific (or even hero-specific) bonuses could include (but not limited to) the following:-
(a) cheaper/more powerful "core" elements (swords, helmets and such)
(b) higher chances of retrieving certain enchantments in some situations (such as after victorious battle, more on that later)
(c) increased power after forging certain types of artifacts
(d) artifacts can last longer, with more "uses" (similar to the magic wand re-charging)
(e) better bargaining/trade terms with artifact merchants
Hence, different factions would take different strategies in geting their materials for their artifacts. Some would go for resources, some would go to fight more enemies, etc.
(2) Gathering "Core" Materials
"Normal" core materials can be bought from the town's blacksmith (with restrictions, such as non-native heroes barred from buying certain items). These are generally simple swords, shields or such (somewhst similar to H4's "treasure" artifacts) that can either be simply equipped (for small effects) or kept in the inventory for the future, forging into more powerful minor or major artifacts.
"Better" core materials (doubleblades, better breastplates, etc) can either be retrieved from quests (which need a certain difficulty or danger level), defeating certain types of tough enemies (higher-tiered creatures, and the chances should be a low percentage, like 15%), or from adventure map artifact merchants (those in towns won't do, and of course the prices will be expensive). These are the ones that can be forged into the major and relic artifacts.
The identification limits can also apply, so, for example, a level 2 hero cannot possiby examine a "Doubleblade of Ashan" (+4 attack, +2 defence) unless he reaches level 10 or something.
Cerain special items can also act as "cores", such as a magic orb (allowing wearer to deal increased magical damage) or angel wings (allow limited flying movement), but they would become more powerful when attached as "enchantments" to the "core" materials.
(3) Gathering Enchantments
Enchantments can be gathered from many places, such as:-
(a) treasure chests/flotsams/shipwrecked personnel
(b) battle sites, resetting gives a different enchantment
(c) completing quests
(d) defeating tough enemies (of course, % of getting item after battle should be low, like 20% for the common enchantments and 5% for the rare enchantments. Examples may include magic ring from magi, basilisk skin from basilisks, entangling tentacles from treants, and so on.
(e) merchants / sites in adventure map (for a price, ofc)
Enchantments should also come in different classes, the better ones being more difficult to get.
What is most interesting about enchantments is that they can come in three varieties: good, neutral and evil.
For example, a "good" hero defeats an army of magi, instead of the "ring of magic" (small increase to power of all direct-damage spells), he can choose to use some resources, gold or his mana to get "ring of righteousness" (greater increase to light magic spells and grant troops better attack against evil units). In the same argument, an "evil" hero can choose to do so, but get "ring of darkness" (increases power of dark magic spells and gives troops better attack against good units) instead.
(4) Forging and Other Matters
The combining of the enchantments into the core would be carried out in a town's blacksmith (for a cost, but heroes should have ways to reduce the cost), or in an adventure map blacksmith (more expensive).
Each enchantment should have a "alignment rating" (to determine good/evil/neutral) and a "weight rating" (relics would be heavier and take up more slots in core elements). The core element should also have a "forging threshold", which cannot be exceeded unless there are some penalties to he forged artifact, such as reduced defence or number of "uses". This should discourage the chance of a "normal" core element with several top-end enchantments, early in the game.
Also, the alignments of the enchantments would be taken into account, if the alignment of the eventual artifact is opposite to that of the hero, there should also be some penalties (such as reduced effects or decreased morale of troops)
The cost of dismantling should incur some losses, so that players are forced to think about the forging. Of course, the forged artifacts can also be sold to the blacksmith when there is urgent need of money (and can be retrieved back later on).
With these in place, I hope that there can be more varied types of artifacts available (there are just not enough artifacts in H5, imo) and it also opens up another aspect of strategy in the Heroes game.
Feel free to give your comments.
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The queer part of the Carcity/Broadstrong/Zamfir[
/b] threeway, equipped with sailing, summon allies, spatial travel and supermover.
Many current projects on hand.
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted October 29, 2008 08:04 PM |
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Edited by Adrius at 20:09, 29 Oct 2008.
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Quote:
the artifact merchant-cum-craftsman
I'm such a sick person...
Anyway.
Good ideas, but I didn't like the alignment thingy with penalties, it limits your choices rather than gives you more.
What if I'm a necromancer who happens to have light magic? Cool! I'll go forge some stuff that supports it, cuz that's what artificing is: Being able to create stuff that benefits your current situation.
Oh bummer, I can't, cuz I'm a necro and I can't get that enchantment... I'm stuck with this prejudicious dark thingy... 
I also don't really see the point with the weight rating, is it to prevent having multiple über-enchantments on one artifact? Cuz as I've mentioned many times in this thread, if you have many super-items, you've earned them.
Same thing with the forging threshold, you won't have any über-cores/enchantments in early game, and if you did have one, you would want to save them until you have better stuff.
Example: By some sick reason I happen to find a Shadowsteel bar at day 1. Yey! But wait... I only have this little ruby thingy that grants me 1+ attack... bummer... I wouldn't want to spend my Shadowsteel on that would I?
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted October 29, 2008 08:10 PM |
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Very good ideas. QP applied.
Edit:
Sorry, Rubycus, I forgot to mention that you were right as well. 
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted October 30, 2008 09:50 AM |
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Quote:
I'm such a sick person...
knowledge of the self is the start of all wisdom
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted October 30, 2008 07:21 PM |
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I'm kinda against creating too many complicated rules for artificing... It's better to keep it simple yet versatile.
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broadstrong
Promising
Known Hero
Level 20 Vassal of Light
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posted October 31, 2008 04:12 PM |
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@GenieLord,
Thanks for the QP awarding.
@Adrius,
I understand your concern of an overly-complicated artifact forging system, but complicated does not really mean "put people off".
Diablo and Sacred 1 (Gold Ed) had much more complex artifact (or raher, equipment) forging systams. In fact, Sacred's smithing system is one important aspect of the game because it affects how the hero performs against different types of enemies.
I take the Heroes skill system as an example.
The skill system for H3 is simple and easy to grasp, then what happens? It ended up that most of the sklls are either a must-get (Earth magic and wisdom, for example), mostly useless (navigation, eagle eye, mysticism) or highly situational (pathfinding, resistance). H4's system solved some of the woes. H5's skill system is very good also (allowing hero to choose perks according to possible enemy types), although I would like to see some more faction-specific perks or the "one-time bonus" perks becoming more useful.
An artifact forging system can be grasped with enough practice and better explantions in help files and guides (or even a short tutorial, which is easily scriptable). If well designed, it can also add another new aspect of gameplay.
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The queer part of the Carcity/Broadstrong/Zamfir[
/b] threeway, equipped with sailing, summon allies, spatial travel and supermover.
Many current projects on hand.
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted October 31, 2008 08:55 PM |
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Edited by Adrius at 20:57, 31 Oct 2008.
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Don't get me wrong, many of your ideas were very nice, especially the ideas on how to get materials.
But I also found many of them to be quite unnecessary, which I explained in my earlier post. Among the unnecessary ones were the alignment thingy, instead of one material changing appearance depending on which faction you use, you could instead make them two different materials.
Now, having too many materials wouldn't be good either, you should be able to base your tactic on eventually finding that rare material you need, it shouldn't just be pure luck.
However, certain factions could have a higher % of finding certain materials. It would be somewhat like your alignment system, but a Necromancer should still be able to find a "holy orb of goodness", though he would have a smaller chance of doing so.
If we do put all materials into certain categories, like Light, Darkness, Fire, Ice etc, we could also have specific areas on the map where there's a high chance of getting that kind of material.
For example, a Treant Grove could have a 70% chance of giving an Earth Material
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valens4681
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 31, 2008 09:27 PM |
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It would it be cool that the elves use tatoos on their bodies to cast spells since they are not too much a materialist faction... and the dark elves could use puppets in some sort of vudooo to launch curses, due to their alignment to dark magic. The point is, that every faction has a different kind of conjure spells... not the same spellbook
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valens4681
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 31, 2008 09:34 PM |
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Sorry for the off-line comentary... some of your ideas are very awesome.
Some tips for the materials obtain:
* The terrain type
* A common skill for all heroes
* A common but not the same building in each city
* Could it be... a new primary skill 
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This thread is pages long: 
