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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Tribute to Strategists
Thread: Tribute to Strategists [ This thread is 12 pages long: 1 (2) 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ]
Rainalcar
Rainalcar


Promising
Famous Hero
Heroji su zakon
posted December 03, 2008 08:42 AM

Quote:
Thats not what i meant. Much of it is very usefull even in online games.


You know that I'm joking , ccc Anders . Thx for your compliments, means a lot.
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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted December 03, 2008 10:55 AM

Quote:
Dosent go for ammo cart and tent if no damage is to be healed from the tent.


"Elaborate?"

I just dont recall ever seeing it. So I tested it. I attacked with a major army against a hero with a single unit and a tent and an ammocart. Blinded it and waited with all troops. The ai didnt retreat.

Quote:
"AI will never wait if it can attack."

Not true. But in most cases.


"When will it wait?"

I havent figured it out, but a couple of times I have placed a single fodder unit within reach to get the ai forward but it has waited. Even though it was the fastest unit on the battlefield it didnt attack it either but just moved forward after the wait. Very strange. I dont recall exactly what units it was but maybe royal griffs and wyvern monarcs.


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Xarfax111
Xarfax111


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
posted December 03, 2008 12:31 PM
Edited by Xarfax111 at 05:22, 04 Dec 2008.

Thanks to angelito to give another QP to someone that simply collects some threads and post their info unproven. Thanks!

I started to count the faults at fault No. 40 and i wasnt really near page 62. Still some very interesting thingsin it, BUT too many incorrect facts does make it unreadable.

One of the biggest mistakes which really show that there is actually not enough work in this 62 pages is a secondary skill probability table that gives non-necromancy heroes the ability to gain necromancy?!?!?!

Another example:

Quote:
HERO'S UNIT SPECIALTY
Unit specialties work for both unapgraded and upgraded units.
Unit receives +1 speed immediately. The unit also receives an increase to Attack and Defense according to the following:
(Hero level - Unit Level + 1) * 0,05 / Unit Level (rounded down)


This is just wrong. Not "so" wrong like others write, but still wrong.

Beside the faults i found, there are many things im not sure about, if they are correct. Like the probabilities for creatures at tavern heroes and stuff.

It would be necessary to tell the sources for those infos. Like many posts are edited post that were originally posted by me, as those contain some old faults by me in it. Its necessary to know the other sources, not to test everything stated to be true or a new heroes fairy tale.

Xarfax111
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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted December 03, 2008 02:13 PM
Edited by angelito at 14:13, 03 Dec 2008.

Quote:
Thanks to angelito to give another QP to someone that simply collects some threads and post their info unproven. Thanks!
I just handed out 1 of the many I took away from you. Hope you don't mind
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Rainalcar
Rainalcar


Promising
Famous Hero
Heroji su zakon
posted December 03, 2008 02:40 PM

Lol, I highly doubt that your knowledge of the game mechanics, as high as it may be, can match with mine. Maybe more now, when you read all the 60 pages . Meant part as a joke, and part as truth , don't take it personally.

Lol, no work? I can swallow all that you wrote but this. You don't have a clue of what you are talking about... But thanks for the "very interesting things" remark .

At first I didn't understand what you mean with Necromancy. The tables are from the game files, and all they show is secondary skill advancement probabilities - not acquirements. But you are right that I should add a note that non Necromancy heroes may not acquire the skill on normal level ups. Thank you for the tip, added.

As for unit specialty, all I can think of is to add "base" before "... Attack and Defense...". But since this is implied just underneath, I sincerely hope you had something else in mind. But I agree that I can come up with a better solution, percent formula is clumsy. What do you say to A/D(new) = A/D(base)*(1 + 0,05*H/U) ? Of course, hero A/D is seperate. Thank you for the tip, added.

I can not tell you the sources, for I mostly do not know/recall them. Many facts are 9 years old, I can't remember myself from that time, let alone who said what to me. But there is a large amount that I discovered.

Would you kindly state all the other 38 mistakes? I will not be embarrassed... Or the fairy tales that you want to know more of?
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Rainalcar
Rainalcar


Promising
Famous Hero
Heroji su zakon
posted December 03, 2008 03:22 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Dosent go for ammo cart and tent if no damage is to be healed from the tent.


"Elaborate?"

I just dont recall ever seeing it. So I tested it. I attacked with a major army against a hero with a single unit and a tent and an ammocart. Blinded it and waited with all troops. The ai didnt retreat.

Quote:
"AI will never wait if it can attack."

Not true. But in most cases.


"When will it wait?"

I havent figured it out, but a couple of times I have placed a single fodder unit within reach to get the ai forward but it has waited. Even though it was the fastest unit on the battlefield it didnt attack it either but just moved forward after the wait. Very strange. I dont recall exactly what units it was but maybe royal griffs and wyvern monarcs.




Ah, so you mean AI can't retreat with Ammo Cart, or if it has a Tent that can't heal anyone for everyone is at full health? I didn't know that.

Very strange about wait. I certainly have not seen it since I restarted playing.
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Sub_Zero
Sub_Zero


Adventuring Hero
posted December 03, 2008 04:07 PM

it is true, i have seen it many times in my games, have even once seen a stack move past my single fodder stack without attacking my other stacks where 2 rounds away, very strange. i have no idea when they wait though, don't seem to be a clear pattern

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Rainalcar
Rainalcar


Promising
Famous Hero
Heroji su zakon
posted December 03, 2008 05:14 PM

I simply don't recall. If you see it again, make a screen, will you?
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Sub_Zero
Sub_Zero


Adventuring Hero
posted December 03, 2008 06:14 PM

will try to remember to do so, it don't happen often though

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Xarfax111
Xarfax111


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
posted December 04, 2008 03:15 AM

Quote:
I just handed out 1 of the many I took away from you. Hope you don't mind


..lol..that IS actually funny
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Xarfax111
Xarfax111


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
posted December 04, 2008 03:34 AM

Quote:
Lol, I highly doubt that your knowledge of the game mechanics, as high as it may be, can match with mine.


..mmh, you seem to care, not me. Im just pointing out that there are many faults in your "knowledge of the game machanics".

Quote:
Maybe more now, when you read all the 60 pages . Meant part as a joke, and part as truth , don't take it personally.


.lol..no i dont .

Quote:
Lol, no work? I can swallow all that you wrote but this. You don't have a clue of what you are talking about... But thanks for the "very interesting things" remark .



ok, you right, there IS actually lots of work in it, and good work. But things need to be tested by you before you publish it. But still very good collection indeed.

Quote:
At first I didn't understand what you mean with Necromancy. The tables are from the game files, and all they show is secondary skill advancement probabilities - not acquirements. But you are right that I should add a note that non Necromancy heroes may not acquire the skill on normal level ups. Thank you for the tip, added.


Those skill tables are faulty, cause they are taken from the txt files of the game. In programming progress those files left unedited, thats why they are faulty. There are actually no game routines left for others heros to gain necromancy -period.

You still can influence the probabilities by editing those txt files, but they ARE ONLY A PART of the real probabilities that are behind a hero. I hope some peeps will finally get that one day.


Quote:
As for unit specialty, ......the tip, added.


There is still a fault in it. Please have a look in the collectors cut (dont miss point b!).

Quote:
I can not tell you the sources, for I mostly do not know/recall them. Many facts are 9 years old,


Some old facts are already proven to be wrong.

Quote:
Would you kindly state all the other 38 mistakes? I will not be embarrassed


Definately no. Only cause i dont have enough time. Its christmas season and im a business man. But im sure angelito and the others will find them too.
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SAG
SAG


Promising
Supreme Hero
WCL owner
posted December 04, 2008 05:55 AM

Quote:

When will it wait?


AI will most probably wait instead of attacking if it can damage own troops by firebreath of dragons...and I guess if AI is very scared of retaliation. Example: you have 200 Horned demons in 1 stack, fighting vs Firebirds, they will wait or stay in defence...maybe in some other cases too

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Sub_Zero
Sub_Zero


Adventuring Hero
posted December 04, 2008 09:11 AM

what i meant was that a1 wait in stead of attacking single fodder stacks, or even move past the single fodder stack that i moved forward without attacking (only seen this once)

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Rainalcar
Rainalcar


Promising
Famous Hero
Heroji su zakon
posted December 04, 2008 03:50 PM

Quote:
Quote:
At first I didn't understand what you mean with Necromancy. The tables are from the game files, and all they show is secondary skill advancement probabilities - not acquirements. But you are right that I should add a note that non Necromancy heroes may not acquire the skill on normal level ups. Thank you for the tip, added.


Those skill tables are faulty, cause they are taken from the txt files of the game. In programming progress those files left unedited, thats why they are faulty. There are actually no game routines left for others heros to gain necromancy -period.

You still can influence the probabilities by editing those txt files, but they ARE ONLY A PART of the real probabilities that are behind a hero. I hope some peeps will finally get that one day.


I agree, they are just a part of the equation, but they are a correct part. Together with other peculiarites like magic schools, Wisdom, and, as you pointed out, Necromancy, always taking in account random seed determination from game start, they form a full picture. There are no real probabilities that you can place in a table because of magic schools and Wisdom counters. All you can do is to post the table as it is, and other conditions with it. All together, info is totally correct.


Quote:
Quote:
As for unit specialty, ......the tip, added.


There is still a fault in it. Please have a look in the collectors cut (dont miss point b!).


Ok, I will, in a few days, I don't have the game now. Then I'll include all of the above and upload again.


Quote:
Quote:
I can not tell you the sources, for I mostly do not know/recall them. Many facts are 9 years old,


Some old facts are already proven to be wrong.


I would say that a large majority of the stuff has been thuraly tested. But I can't tell for all.

Quote:
Quote:
Would you kindly state all the other 38 mistakes? I will not be embarrassed


Definately no. Only cause i dont have enough time. Its christmas season and im a business man. But im sure angelito and the others will find them too.


Zum Teufel You read it all, did you not? You already know which stuff goes under wrong. Copy paste it xarfax, don't be a stranger. Copy paste even what your unsure of.
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Rainalcar
Rainalcar


Promising
Famous Hero
Heroji su zakon
posted December 04, 2008 03:51 PM

Quote:
Quote:

When will it wait?


AI will most probably wait instead of attacking if it can damage own troops by firebreath of dragons...and I guess if AI is very scared of retaliation. Example: you have 200 Horned demons in 1 stack, fighting vs Firebirds, they will wait or stay in defence...maybe in some other cases too


Yes, thats ok. I will include that too. But I'm interested in AI not attacking a fodder stack.
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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted December 04, 2008 08:11 PM

"Zum Teufel  You read it all, did you not? You already know which stuff goes under wrong. Copy paste it xarfax, don't be a stranger. Copy paste even what your unsure of. "

The problem here is that Xarfax as so often before has exaggerated and is not able to come up with these 40 erroes. Its a classic. The question is rather if he can mention a few. I doubt it. But I take my hat of to the entertainment value of his posts.

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Xarfax111
Xarfax111


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
posted December 05, 2008 03:49 AM

[quoteThe problem here is that Xarfax as so often before has exaggerated and is not able to come up with these 40 erroes. Its a classic. The question is rather if he can mention a few. I doubt it. But I take my hat of to the entertainment value of his posts.



Oh thanks maretti for your great appreciation. Its like always, if i say thats there is something wrong im the madman. Especially when i dont have the time nor im willing to correct all the faults all the time. At least: Why the hell should I?? Peeps like you see me in a very bad way anyway.

Here is my last correction so be happy:

Creature Specialty:

Heroes with creature speciality get actually 3 Bonuses in one .

a) The indicated creatures gain a bonus of +1 to their Speed rating, regardless of the hero’s level. This gives additional movement in the fights and on the map.

b) As soon as the Hero level (= HL) reaches the Creature level (=CL), the indicated creatures also gain a bonus of +1 Attack and +1 Defence ratings.

c) In addition, they gain the 5% percentage bonus based on the creature’s basic attack and defence stats. Unfortunately they tried to balance this ability by dividing the percentage by the Creature Level. This wasn’t really necessary as the varying creature growth would’ve balanced it anyway. Now it takes too many Levels to get this speciality work on high level creatures:

Formular: Percentage that will be raised = (HL-CL) x 5% / CL

Example:

Level 21 Galthran with Skeletons (Level 1)

Formular: (21-1) x 5% /1 = 20 x 5% = 100%

Skeletons Basic Attack = 5
Skeletons Speciality = 5 x 100% = 5
Skeletons Total Attack = 10

Skeletons Basic Defence = 4
Skeletons Speciality = 4 x 100% = 4
Skeletons Total Defence = 8

Example:

Level 25 Alkin with Gorgons (Level 5)

Formulary: (25-5) x 5% / 5 = 20 x 5 % / 5 = 100% / 5 = 20%

Gorgons Basic Attack = 10
Gorgons Speciality = 10 x 20% = 2
Gorgons Total Attack = 12

Gorgons Basic Defence = 14
Gorgons Speciality = 14 x 20% = 2,8
Gorgons Total Defence approx.: = 17

Thats actually how it works.


So i will definately stop correcting other peeps. And as noone else does, those faults will leave uncommented as correct in this Library. BUT NOW I STOPPED CARING.


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Rainalcar
Rainalcar


Promising
Famous Hero
Heroji su zakon
posted December 05, 2008 07:00 AM

You see, copy paste is easy
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Rainalcar
Rainalcar


Promising
Famous Hero
Heroji su zakon
posted December 05, 2008 08:27 AM

And I totally forgot one thing, my sincere apologies to the person in question: many,many thanks to NikitA in helping me conclude this manual. You and your help were priceless mate .
We still have a game to finish, do we not? Stand in the line LOL
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Fank0
Fank0


Known Hero
There are no limits
posted December 06, 2008 02:25 AM

Well, everyone who thinks there is an error in some of the info posted should point it out, as the goal presumably is to create an accurate game manual, right ?

So, Xarfax, when you have time, will you please mark the faults you have found so we can discuss whether they are correct or not ?

We all want a complete and accurate Heroes 3 Guide i believe. So let us just throw in some more effort, ok ?

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