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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted May 03, 2010 12:54 AM |
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judging jokers heroism perks...
Learn From Mistakes
Seems pretty strong imo...but is a REALLY nice, creative perk, I think 
Creativity: 10
Realism: 6
Fame Attracts
Well, it does  not as creative as the basic perk, imo, and even more overpowered. With this perks, Heroism can maybe be a number ONE choice for early phases of the scenario. also I don't see why dungeon can't choose this?
Creativity: 7
Realism: 5
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted May 03, 2010 01:54 AM |
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Who judges Joker's perks? Anybody?
____________
"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted May 03, 2010 02:15 AM |
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Any participant may do, if I got joker right...he declaimed that noone judged his combat perks, allready, so I did those, and now these...
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 03, 2010 06:43 AM |
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 03, 2010 04:52 PM |
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Learn From Mistakes
not fond of it, 1st, you rarely plan to lose units, it might be useful to weak players, but they wouldn't choose heroism because they would fight with bigger armies than the AI. good players would just not lose units. for inferno, it might be easily abused to have a few levels advantage, especially in the 2 firsts weeks I guess
Fame Attracts
makes me think of summoning from H4, nice one. but it should be taken in consideration than +1 bear is much better than +1 mauler or +1 wind dancer is far better than +1 zombi.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 04, 2010 07:22 AM |
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Hm, Fauch and Jirki, is it so difficult to see the two perks you tried to rate in combination?
The basic perk will give xp for lost troops - a lot of xp for real troops, normal xp for gated and summoned ones. Now, abusing this with Inferno isn't that easy, since you have to lose the gated troops - they must be killed, not just go back, after the fight is done - to get xp; a Familiar or Vermin is worth 13 xp, by the way.
Sure, losing a real Familiar, will give you 130 xp, which is certainly a lot - but you definitely don't want to lose any, like Fauch said, so this is a bit of a pain. In any case, since the Skill is called Heroism, it's a perk that fits quite well into the theme: the sugar coating of a massive xp gain might make you bolder in your neutral fights, going into really tough battles, knowing that if you really lose troops so that it hurts, you'll get something in exchange for it.
Keep in mind, thatn you will definitely want to get the Heroism skill early anyway.
The advanced perk is to be seen with the basic perk in mind; it's clear, that you can't go on a losing troops rage indefinitely. You may lose a couple of Gargoyles, as long as you have enough to cover the Gremlins, you may lose a couple of Demons, Peasants, Goblins, sprites/dancers, or Defenders (but never Stalkers or even Blood Furies, and Necropolis usually doesn't lose anything either - raised/resurrected and Eternal Servitude comebacks don't count), but not too much, or you cripple your creeping force.
The advanced perk makes sure, you get a few cheap new recruits after any battle you won with inferior forces. If you don't intend to lose any troops anyway - a commendable thing -, you basically have to take two perks to get the troop influx; if you lose a couple usually (and get xp), you can make up for the losses (if they are not too big), so with Inferno, you might make an extra few hundred xp in each battle without really losing something.
I took Dungeon out, since their low level troops are way way too strong: an additional 4 Stalkers or 2 Blood Furies for a victorious fight seems a bit over the top.
Anyway, it is just possible, that the xp value for the lost cretures is set too high - double value, triple value and quintuple value might do the trick better, sure, and it may well be, that an extra Elf per inferior battle won may be a bit much.
However, it's like with the enlightenment skill. A skill like Heroism must be picked as early as possible, but it has to be worth the while as well. Take Inferno, since for Inferno there would be an extra incentive to take Heroism, but even if the hero started with Basic Heroism, you'd still be required to pick the first 4 levels in Heroism to make the most of it, with use of skill declining with each battle against neutrals fought. Is that really worth forgoing Basic Attack and Battle Frenzy which will boost damage output of the Vermin by 50% (a perk that so clearly suggests itself like Battle Frenzy might easily be called overpowered, by the way).
Overpowered or not, the exact xp gain and troops influx, that would be up to testing - but those two perk would offer a reward for more aggressive, reckless playing style; I wasn't too fond of the skill initially, but after creating those perks and seeing some of yours and a couple of possibilities for other basic and advanced perks, I'd say that the Heroism skill would clearly beat the Enlightenment skill - if I could pick, I'd remove Enlightenment and replace it with Heroism.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted May 04, 2010 01:28 PM |
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Well I doubt that the Heroism skill can give Enlightenment a run for it's money... You may have a bit higher level (let's say 2 which I already believe is pretty generous in late game) an enemy with enlightenment will still have stronger stats than you. While 2 skill points certainly aren't to be underestimated they may or may not pay off. +10 Stat points to your main attributes at level 20 however do pay off handsomely.
Oh and I'm not sure why you'd say that picking Enlightenment as early as possible is the key since you get both the Stat and Experience bonus for levels and experience gained in previous fights.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 04, 2010 01:42 PM |
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Not sure why I said to pick Enlightenment early either
Anyway, what I mean is, that I'd switch Heroism for Enlightenment - Enlightenment is such a broken skill - the thing is, it's an unnecessary skill. The basic idea - sacrifing 3 skill lvels in order to advance faster would be sound with a linear and theoretically endless level gaining process, like it is sound to invest into economy to earn ore money, once the investment has been repaid.
The ingame solution ain't bad, but is overpowered - giving an additional TWO primary skill points per level would be enough, and of course there could have been better perks.
So I'd take Enlightenment out and replace it with Heroism - maybe a slightly modified version, but still.
But that's academic anyway.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 04, 2010 06:12 PM |
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well, I don't really see learning from mistakes working very well.
the other perk is good.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted May 07, 2010 05:54 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 19:02, 08 May 2010.
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Soul Drinker
The service of your troops does not with Death even when they die the last of their life force serves to fuele the fires of destruction the hero unleashes.
Depending on the Heroes mastery he'll be able to draw more power from the fallen. The power of damaging spells is increased proportionate to the overall armystrength you lose. For every percentage of your armies health (all units health added up)lost you're heros spelldamage will increase. For 10% overall health loss you're damage will increase by 1%/2%/3 percent depending on your mastery level. In the calculations your units combined starting hp = 100%. Everything you lose from there will increase the damage, everything you ressurect or raise will count as live units and therefore reduce the bonus accordingly.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 07, 2010 07:23 PM |
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That reminds me...
Alci, we're still a rating short - if you camn't spare the time, maybe this is Mytical's hour?
Can you sort it out, please, so that we can put round 28 to rest before 29 ratings start?
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted May 08, 2010 03:01 PM |
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Excuse me? Who are you to judge or even suggest whether Alci is to stop judging? Alci is doing a brilliant job and I doubt Mytical could even hope to compare to it (no offense). I don't care if I have to wait Alci consistantly delivers very good evaluations ad that's all I need.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted May 08, 2010 03:52 PM |
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No actually he's right, like I mentioned some time ago, I have been pretty busy and considered stepping down from rating. But here are my ratings from last round.
VokialBG
Glorious Assault
I like your reasoning behind this perk, and I think the -1 morale penalty is fine. The last park makes less sense to me, in that you can ALWAYS reach the enemy lines with your hero - but I suppose this is opposed to him casting a defensive (for instance Light Magic) spell? I think it would be more fair if it triggered only on Hero direct attack, and not on (offensive) spells - and futhermore, +1 Initiative is too much, the +1 moral bonus would be just fine as I see it (to a cummulative +1/-1 morale which is pretty good).
Creativity: 9
Realism: 8
Last Duty Of The Soldier
Nice name, short for "Last Duty" could also have worked fine. I'm not quite clear on the mechanisms here - exactly which stats will be boosted, and by how much? Does this affect Attack and Defence only (fine) or also speed and hit points (problematic). Having a huge stack of stack of Conscripts being boosted in Attack and Defence from, say, Angels could work, but giving them also a +65 HP bonus is not going to work. In fact, the whole mechanism seems fairly complecated on me, I didn't quite grasp the last part either.
Creativity: 8
Realism: 5 (for lack of clarity)
Fauch
Goliath's Slayers
Ouch ... that's pretty massive. I think 50 % trigger chance is too much, but of course it only applies to level 1 units ... so maybe? Not sure ... seems like something to abuse, but then again, it doesn't take that much to squash a level 1 stack (in most cases) ... so maybe it's ok? The theme of the perk is nice with the skill, but I think maybe this is too narrow to be a really suitable basic perk.
Creativity: 7
Realism: 7
Martyr
Actually, I don't find it particularly imba, in fact I would probably up it a bit in the way that I would say you choose a Martyr stack and a Defended stack (must be adjacent for effect to work) and then attacks directed against Defended stack is always transfered to Martyr. I think this is an ability that can give some nice tactical options in early creeping.
Creativity: 8
Realism: 8
Jiriki9
Valor
This is a nice anti-Necro perk, but for this very reason, it doesn't seem very suitable as a basic perk (because it can't be taken out of the skill tree for factions that have no need for it - i.e. Necromancer (and Demon Lord)). Imo. it would make an excellent advanced perk.
Creativity: 8
Realism: 7
Desperate Courage
Ok, the general idea of this is decent, but there are some balancing issues. For instance, if you consider a late-game battle where you face a slightly stronger opponent, and all your stacks are >1000 Power rating, then this will give you a massively unfair advantage. First of all +25 % Initiative is pretty game breaking (one of the best Relics give you +20 %!), and you would seem to need a different triggering criterion.
Creativity: 8 (general idea)
Realism: 2
Blizzardboi
Wanderlust
Nice. Does this also remove (or reduce) movement penalty from adventure map? (Which would make it a free pathfinding - not so fair perhaps.)
Creativity: 8
Realism: 9
Cosmopolitan
The general idea is good. Maybe I would soften it a bit (i.e. say allied factions are considered native, and hostile factions are considered allied) - but apart from that, it seems useful without being über powerful. Seems like a natural synergy with Leadership.
Creativity: 9
Realism: 9
Azagal
Death Company
That's very creative. I like the idea of having difference between levels count in. Also the description and theme is very nice.
Creativity: 10
Realism: 10
Herculean Strength
I think the idea behind this is excellent, but obviously this gives a good bonus when attacking level 7s (+4 level) while a lousy bonus when attacking level 1 and 2s (+1 level). Given that damage is already laughable when attacking low-levels that seems a bit skewed ... on the other hand you could argue that attacking low-levels is waste of time anyway, so maybe that doesn't matter.
Creativity: 8
Realism: 9
____________
What will happen now?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 08, 2010 03:59 PM |
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Oftentimes reading the thread you want to post in helps avoiding embarrassing, ignorant posts
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 08, 2010 06:41 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 18:44, 08 May 2010.
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Quote:
Martyr
Actually, I don't find it particularly imba, in fact I would probably up it a bit in the way that I would say you choose a Martyr stack and a Defended stack (must be adjacent for effect to work) and then attacks directed against Defended stack is always transfered to Martyr. I think this is an ability that can give some nice tactical options in early creeping.
Creativity: 8
Realism: 8
it's not a bad idea. I thought about martyr from H4, but it didn't require the 2 stacks to be adjacent. I don't even know why it was as low as level 2 in H4 because it was a very powerful spell.
azagal : I think sould drinker sucks. seriously, if you lose all your army, you only gain a bonus of 30%. it seems to not be worth it. unless you are a necromancer and can keep the bonus even after casting raise dead?
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted May 08, 2010 06:52 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 19:01, 08 May 2010.
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Absolutely nothing embarresing about my post. Ignorant of the fact that Alci mentioned is somewhere perhaps but certainly not embarresing lol. If there's a guy to pull off something like that it's you for sure .
Well if it would be more it would be imbalanced if you'd think about it. Empowered spells give you +50% SP and cost twice the mana if my perk were to give you 20% at arround 50% of your army strength that would already give you +50% with the perk at expert for the normal mana cost. And that is just retarded if you ask me. Besides it's a basic perk so the bonus is ok since it's suppose to supplement, not dominate. Hmm and yeah ressurecting/raising things would reduce the bonus since the sould would obviously return to the host.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted May 08, 2010 08:14 PM |
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Let it rest, guys. Think happy thoughts.
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What will happen now?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 08, 2010 08:30 PM |
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Nope.
There is one thing even more embarrassing than brawling around in happy ignorance of the facts and offend people, and that's not simply saying sorry, afterwards but either trying to cover it with insolence - or being too ignorant or insensible to see the necessity for it - which is so very typical for immature brats.
Being a bit responsible for this thread now as well, I apologize to Mytical for Azagal for dismissing you as a judge here.
I'm sure, you'd be a very good judge.
So, Mytical, are you interested to rate perks? I'd be prepared to stand back and let you do it. Or would you be interested to co-rate the perks with me? We could discuss the entries among us via PM and find a combined rating?
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted May 08, 2010 08:42 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 20:43, 08 May 2010.
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He's not apologizing for the immature brat. Mytical is capable of criticsm and I'm sure he'll agree with what I said. Eventhough you may be right Jolly the wording isn't exactly optimal. But... *starts thinking happy thoughts*... have a nice evening.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted May 09, 2010 10:23 AM |
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This thread is pages long: 
