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| Thread: What if... |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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alcibiades
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posted December 15, 2008 09:23 PM |
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Quote:
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Werewolfs should be in Stronghold as a Hellhound/Human hybrid.
Yeah, cause that would be totally according to general knowledge/popular culture.
Although I must say, I like the idea.
It would actually make sense in terms of the in-game structure, like the Centaur = Human + Hellhorse hybrid.
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Lexxan
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Unimpressed by your logic
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posted December 15, 2008 09:30 PM |
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Why would anyone breed Humans with Hellhound?
I'd suggest we combine both Popular and Ashan Lore, and say that a Wherewolf is a person that was bitten by a Hellhound at Full Moon or something like that.
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Geny
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted December 15, 2008 09:32 PM |
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@alc
That's why I said I like the idea, but it has nothing to do with popular lore.
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Lexxan
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Unimpressed by your logic
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posted December 15, 2008 09:37 PM |
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[Geny is ignoring me yet again]
that's why I suggested that Wherewolves are contaminated by bite of Hellhounds or something...
Heck, this thread isn't about Wherewolves lol
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Geny
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted December 15, 2008 09:40 PM |
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Why? I never said I wanted it to be like popular lore, I was just replying to xerox. I personally prefer the Stronghold idea, because it's original and goes well with the game lore.
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alcibiades
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posted December 15, 2008 09:49 PM |
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MattII
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posted December 15, 2008 09:52 PM |
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Well since we're counting Werewolves as honourary undead we'll have to do the same for Phoenix's (or is it Phoeni?) as well right, I mean they do come back from the dead.
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Geny
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted December 15, 2008 09:54 PM |
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alcibiades
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posted December 15, 2008 09:57 PM |
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Well since we're counting Werewolves as honourary undead we'll have to do the same for Phoenix's (or is it Phoeni?) as well right, I mean they do come back from the dead.
No, because Phoenii come back to life - they self-resurrect, so to speak - whereas undead come back to ... well, un-life. And Werewolves were never dead in the first place.
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MattII
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posted December 15, 2008 10:11 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 22:27, 15 Dec 2008.
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Quote:
Quote:
Well since we're counting Werewolves as honourary undead we'll have to do the same for Phoenix's (or is it Phoeni?) as well right, I mean they do come back from the dead.
No, because Phoenii come back to life - they self-resurrect, so to speak - whereas undead come back to ... well, un-life. And Werewolves were never dead in the first place.
This logically suggests that draculan vampires aren't undead either, since they have a separate, non-necromancic existence.
Also, werewolves 'are' undead, they are linked to vampires in several different cultures (Ancient Greek, German, Poland, France, and a whole bevy of Eastern European countries).
I'd also disagree with werewolves being demonspawn of any sort, the fact that they regenerate, and can only really be harmed by silver are problematic to deal with. I figure Wargs as a Horse/Hell Hound hybrid are more plausible.
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baklava
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Mostly harmless
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posted December 15, 2008 10:56 PM |
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Edited by baklava at 22:56, 15 Dec 2008.
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Quote:
Why would anyone breed Humans with Hellhound?
*thinks for a sec*
Hentai?
Theoretically, Dracula never died, so if you're counting it like that, Alc, he's not undead either.
And werewolves in a lot of mythological cases did die and only then arose as werewolves.
Basically, what Matt said
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Vlaad
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ghost of the past
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posted December 16, 2008 07:49 AM |
bonus applied by alcibiades on 17 Dec 2008. |
Edited by Vlaad at 01:47, 11 Apr 2009.
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Really? I have never seen werewolves linked to the undead, aside from an entry in the 19th century Serbian dictionary, which lists werewolf and vampire as the same thing (a reference not so obscure as it seems, since vampire might be a word of Serbian origin).
However, vampires and werewolves do have something in common – they are both widespread stereotypes in popular culture. I understand it’s those stereotypes we’re talking about, not the original myths and beliefs.
As for Stoker’s Dracula, I think he did die but managed to cheat death using black magic (or whatever). As for other vampires, I believe they are dead as well (technically speaking, they bled to death… although the process is vague and sometimes more akin to a contagious disease, which is closer to the folklore).
Anyhow, no need to take the canon so seriously in the first place. It’s funny when fans argue about the differences between Nosferatu and Dracula, when the former was actually an unauthorized adaptation of the latter (which was a rip off itself).
Back on topic, I was rereading the Development Diary (remember that?) but couldn't find a good translation of the following paragraph (needless to say, Babelfish didn't help much ): Due to the fact that much was already made, for example, a number of creation or the mechanics of battle, many changes in game were not introduced, but in the subsequent games a series of changes will occur. For example, the faction Of Necromancers is rather cult, by which it arose on the basis of ancient knowledge, whereas subsequently in a series those can appear, who served as the basis of this cult, and this will thoroughly change the faction. (It's page 4, if anyone is willing to give it a try.)
I think he meant stuff like the concept art which was reminiscent of Ancient Egypt:
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baklava
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posted December 16, 2008 09:08 AM |
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Well I always thought that a 19th century dictionary is more of a proof of folklore than horror movies...
Besides, they are mentioned as undead in various other books about Slavic mythology. The one closest to me right now (on my shelf) is Svetlana Tolstoy's and Ljubinko Radenkovic's "Slavic Mythology - the encyclopedic dictionary".
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As for Stoker’s Dracula, I think he did die but managed to cheat death using black magic (or whatever).
Never explained in the book  Only in Coppola's movie, which says that he renounced God and became a vampire while he was still alive.
But there can be no canons in fantasy, I guess. I'm just kind of a lore freak, so I don't like people calling games and movies canon while they don't know anything about original myths. How they implement them in games doesn't matter.
[/offtopic]
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you got the blues."
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MattII
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posted December 16, 2008 09:09 AM |
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Really? I have never seen werewolves linked to the undead, aside from an entry in the 19th century Serbian dictionary, which lists werewolf and vampire as the same thing (a reference not so obscure as it seems, since vampire might be a word of Serbian origin).
Well Wikipedia seems to disagree with you, and while it may not be the most accurate source in the world, it's good enough for these sorts of discussions.
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However, vampires and werewolves do have something in common – they are both widespread stereotypes in popular culture. I understand it’s those stereotypes we’re talking about, not the original myths and beliefs.
Yep.
Quote:
As for Stoker’s Dracula, I think he did die but managed to cheat death using black magic (or whatever). As for other vampires, I believe they are dead as well (technically speaking, they bled to death… although the process is vague and sometimes more akin to a contagious disease, which is closer to the folklore).
Given that Dracula is purported by Stoker to have given some of 'his' blood to a victim, it seems unlikely that Vampires bleed to death, giving support to the 'contagion' theory rather than the 'undead' one.
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Anyhow, no need to take the canon so seriously in the first place. It’s funny when fans argue about the differences between Nosferatu and Dracula, when the former was actually an unauthorized adaptation of the latter (which was a rip off itself).
Indeed, both are loosely based on John Polidori's 1819 work, 'The Vampyre'. Of course, Dracula and Nosferatu are quite different, Dracula is charming, while Nosferatu is repugnant, Dracula can stand daylight while Nosferatu can't (indeed this is more-or-less the modern source of this part of the vampire mythos), and Dracula can turn others into vampires, an abilty not demonstrated by Nosferatu.
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alcibiades
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posted December 16, 2008 07:21 PM |
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Quote:
Back on topic, I was rereading the Development Diary (remember that?) but couldn't find a good translation of the following paragraph (needless to say, Babelfish didn't help much ): Due to the fact that much was already made, for example, a number of creation or the mechanics of battle, many changes in game were not introduced, but in the subsequent games a series of changes will occur. For example, the faction Of Necromancers is rather cult, by which it arose on the basis of ancient knowledge, whereas subsequently in a series those can appear, who served as the basis of this cult, and this will thoroughly change the faction. (It's page 4, if anyone is willing to give it a try.)
Am I overreading this, or do they actually talk about Heroes 6 here?
Sorry for going off-topic btw. ... but ... 
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Vlaad
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posted December 16, 2008 07:47 PM |
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Edited by Vlaad at 19:56, 16 Dec 2008.
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@ baklavaQuote:
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As for Stoker’s Dracula, I think he did die but managed to cheat death using black magic (or whatever).
Never explained in the book
You're right, of course. I was referring to this part, although I admit it doesn't say much:
He must, indeed, have been that Voivode Dracula who won his name against the Turk, over the great river on the very frontier of Turkeyland. If it be so, then was he no common man, for in that time, and for centuries after, he was spoken of as the cleverest and the most cunning, as well as the bravest of the sons of the ‘land beyond the forest.’ That mighty brain and that iron resolution went with him to his grave, and are even now arrayed against us. The Draculas were, says Arminius, a great and noble race, though now and again were scions who were held by their coevals to have had dealings with the Evil One. They learned his secrets in the Scholomance, amongst the mountains over Lake Hermanstadt, where the devil claims the tenth scholar as his due. In the records are such words as ‘stregoica’ witch, ‘ordog’ and ‘pokol’ Satan and hell, and in one manuscript this very Dracula is spoken of as ‘wampyr,’ which we all understand too well...
@ MattII
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Really? I have never seen werewolves linked to the undead, aside from an entry in the 19th century Serbian dictionary, which lists werewolf and vampire as the same thing (a reference not so obscure as it seems, since vampire might be a word of Serbian origin).
Well Wikipedia seems to disagree with you, and while it may not be the most accurate source in the world, it's good enough for these sorts of discussions.
You're right too (although the linked section states that this differs from conventional werewolfery, where the creature is a living being rather than an undead apparition).
Where would you personally place werewolves - Necropolis, neutrals...?
@ alci
Quote:
Quote:
Back on topic, I was rereading the Development Diary (remember that?) but couldn't find a good translation of the following paragraph (needless to say, Babelfish didn't help much ): Due to the fact that much was already made, for example, a number of creation or the mechanics of battle, many changes in game were not introduced, but in the subsequent games a series of changes will occur. For example, the faction Of Necromancers is rather cult, by which it arose on the basis of ancient knowledge, whereas subsequently in a series those can appear, who served as the basis of this cult, and this will thoroughly change the faction. (It's page 4, if anyone is willing to give it a try.)
Am I overreading this, or do they actually talk about Heroes 6 here?
Sorry for going off-topic btw. ... but ...
It's NOT off topic - THAT was the whole point of this thread. On the other hand, my Russian is not that good...
Where's Geny when you need him? 
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted December 16, 2008 08:29 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 08:36, 20 Dec 2008.
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You're right too (although the linked section states that this differs from conventional werewolfery, where the creature is a living being rather than an undead apparition).
Where would you personally place werewolves - Necropolis, neutrals...?
Neutrals probably, although Baklavas solution is also quite enticing.
OT: Gah, why won't the damned Hyperlink work?
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Geny
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posted December 16, 2008 08:45 PM |
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Have no fear, HC's translator is here!
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However, further there are more changes - Might and Magic World Team, the team that's responsible for all the elements of the Might and Magic universe, appears and unites the world of our game with the world Of DM that's being developed at the same time. Thanks to that team mid-way into development we began changing the structure of the factions, their ideology, and of course their artistic presentation. Since much has already been done, for example the unit line-up and the battle mechanics, many changes didn't make it into the game, but might do so in the next installments of the game. For example, The Necromancers' faction appears in our game as a cult, based on ancient knowledge, in future installments there might appear those who served as basis to that cult, radically changing the faction itself.
I'm a little tired, so ask if I wasn't clear somewhere.
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alcibiades
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posted December 16, 2008 08:48 PM |
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Still seems like a strong reference to a Heroes 6. 
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Vlaad
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posted December 16, 2008 08:55 PM |
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Yup.
Thanks, Geny!  I've also asked Zamfir to scan a page of Art of HoMM featuring Necropolis concept art (for us mortals who don't own the Complete Edition)... Might be interesting.
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