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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 07, 2009 02:24 PM |
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It's possible. But I doubt it.
As for Hamas and democracy - the problem isn't that the Palestinians elected Hamas. The problem is what Hamas is doing.
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Eccentric Opinion
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted January 07, 2009 02:33 PM |
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Quote:
How would Israel feel if some of its territory was 'captured' by Hamas? It would start to attack and repeal them back, right? And call it "defense".
I'm not taking sides, I'm just trying to understand why they're so pissed. And I think, everyone thinks they do it for 'defense', maybe even Hamas.
Quote:
Here's my opinion on what needs to happen. First, Israel has to remove Hamas from power. That is absolutely essential. Then Israel has to acknowledge the wrongs that it has done, and apologize for them. Third, it has to leave a small force in Gaza to keep the peace for a while. In the meantime, it should encourage more investment, especially in those areas. When people have job opportunities, they don't blow themselves up.
Question: Why did Palestina elect Hamas in the first place? This is the core reason they got a Hamas goverment. As far as i know, the side that is suffering is the Palestines.
Watched a bit of Nils and Ronny yesterday, its a Norwegian show of 2 people who had a succes quite some time back by making a Television show of 1 camera with tapes and 1 fenalår while traveling around in Ireland was it?
Lately they where in Gaza, and tagged up with the "Grandma watches you"-organisation and watched and talked about this entire mess with the Isreals in charge of the GWY.
One side enjoys traveling, the other sets up fanatical brainwashed soliders to stop that. And they wonder why its total war?
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted January 07, 2009 03:09 PM |
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Quote:
I find it kind of funny. Palestinians voted for Hamas to lead them. We're basicly going against the whole princicples of democracy by stating we need to get rid of Hamas  "You are free to elect as your leader whoever you wish, but not the ones who's ideaology collides with ours." Sounds like dictatorship from the world to me...
granted it's a difficult situation, but one needs to keep in mind in the eyes of palestinians, Hamas would be like a resistance movement.
According to the belief of Hamas, the Israelis are murderers, and should be killed immediately. The goal of the Hamas organization is to destroy Israel. Please read their platform.
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted January 07, 2009 03:17 PM |
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Quote:
According to the belief of Hamas, the Israelis are murderers, and should be killed immediately.
That makes it even more funny and ironic Hamas thinks it, and Israel does it.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted January 07, 2009 03:33 PM |
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Uh-oh...
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted January 07, 2009 05:36 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 17:38, 07 Jan 2009.
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Quote:
I really don't understand what you're trying to say.
Any 'killer' can apologize if it profits him in some way. It's not hard, he doesn't have to mean what he says. Saying that it will change something is just as naive as believing that killer.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted January 07, 2009 10:48 PM |
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@Death
How do I know that what was said about the school was true? 3 reasons:
1. I am naive I know, but I tend to believe such reports unless I find a flaw in them.
2. We have no reason to just randomly shoot civilians. If you don't believe me that we don't want to do it because of humanitarian reason then believe me that we don't want to do it because of political reasons - international pressure is the last thing we need right now.
3. There are eye witnesses, Palestinian eye witnesses.
@Bak
I agree with most of the things you've said. Including the one about a Palestinian country. We gave up some of the land under our control for solid peace before, I can't see a reason why can't we do the same with Gaza. It will just take a lot of time.
@Moonlith
True removing from power an elected government sounds wrong. However, this operation had no such goal. The goal was to protect Israeli citizens and severely cripple HAMAS' military power, not to overthrow the government (even though it would be good). Personally, I think that the greatest achievement and exit point we could get out of this whole thing is if the truce is coordinated by Egypt and Abu Mazen (FATAH). That will completely humiliate HAMAS from a political point of view which may be even more important then hurting it physically (in the long run).
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 07, 2009 10:50 PM |
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TheDeath:
Of course it would benefit Israel. That's the point. If I could cut a finger off to keep my arm from being chopped off, I'd do it. It's a similar situation here.
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Eccentric Opinion
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted January 07, 2009 11:05 PM |
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Quote:
3. There are eye witnesses, Palestinian eye witnesses.
Doesn't rule out, since they could be terrified (because they were 'bombed') etc...
although I would like to agree with you, then again it's like a rape victim too afraid to report it.
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Of course it would benefit Israel. That's the point. If I could cut a finger off to keep my arm from being chopped off, I'd do it. It's a similar situation here.
No let me put it differently. THINKING that such a thing benefits is naive, because those are just empty words. Do you fall for politician speeches too?
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antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
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posted January 07, 2009 11:45 PM |
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i came to a conclusion that this is a hyprocritcle discussion.
all the countrys that ask for ceasefire do not really mean it. the only reason israel started war this time is - Money.
World economy is at button of the pit. one of the things that lift it,is war.
Russia sells more then ever weapons now.
So is USA.
Europe is benefiting also.
Israel is benefiting because it is being invested in financialy speaking.
Hamas on the other hand,has an excuse to do even more things,but hey all in the name of buck?
personally,im against the war,but what is there to do? how world is like that,that money makes war,and war makes money. Guns don't kill people,people kill people,for money?
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types in obscure english
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted January 08, 2009 12:50 AM |
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And another has awoken 
As I said, I guarantee this will escalate, and Iran will be involved.
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enamelity
Known Hero
You Misunderestimated Me
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posted January 08, 2009 01:12 AM |
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Stories from my life concerning this discussion:
Yesterday my uncle (in Be'er Sheva, Israel) saw a missile hit the entrance to a hospital.
A while ago my brother talked to an Arab (in America) who wanted a Muslim democracy instituted in Israel (without killing any Israelis). My brother pointed out that that couldn't work because of there are many more Israelis than Arabs in the country.
When my mom was a child, there was little or no Jew-Muslim violence. There was racism, and many Muslims came from surrounding countries to do low-pay jobs in Israel (like stereotyped Mexicans).
In the most recent Israel-Palestinian war, before airstrikes, the Israeli military calls up people living in the areas to be bombed and tells them to leave the area before the airstrike. Many deaths result from Palestinians refusing to leave (don't know if this has already been said, didn't read the whole thread).
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted January 08, 2009 01:15 AM |
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Quote:
Many deaths result from Palestinians refusing to leave (don't know if this has already been said, didn't read the whole thread).
Yeah yeah, they should abandon their homes, Israel knows better. We all know Israel would so easily give up their homes too.
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enamelity
Known Hero
You Misunderestimated Me
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posted January 08, 2009 01:19 AM |
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I'd still rather give up my home than die. Or get really injured.
And I know that either option is very bad for the people living there, but its not like Hamas isn't launching stuff into Israel also.
And Hamas certainly isn't calling people beforehand.
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted January 08, 2009 01:31 AM |
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I pretend that Israel doesn't exist. Whatever they do, I don't want it to involve U.S. money, and I think other countries should adopt the same stance. We're broke as it is and we need some politicians that stop spending tax payers money as though it's a limitless credit card. And as far as being on the 'right' side, it's well documented that both sides are a bunch of (pink rainbow) holes. So the right side is to be on neither side. It's just a giant mess.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted January 08, 2009 02:52 PM |
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UN: Israel kills driver on aid mission to Gaza
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In Geneva, the international Red Cross said it found four small children alive next to their mothers' bodies in the rubble of a Gaza home hit by Israeli shelling. The neutral aid group says a total of 15 dead were recovered from two houses in the Zeitoun neighborhood of Gaza City on Wednesday.
A Red Cross spokesman says rescuers had been refused permission by Israeli forces to reach the site for four days. It said the delay in allowing rescue services access was "unacceptable."
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Of the Palestinians killed since Dec. 27, some 350 were civilians, among them 130 children, according to Palestinian medical officials. Eleven Israelis have been killed, including three civilians, since the offensive began.
I don't know about you, but to me 3 seems like, a hundred times less than 300+.
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For Israel to accept a proposed cease-fire deal, "there has to be a total and complete cessation of all hostile fire from Gaza into Israel, and ... we have to see an arms embargo on Hamas that will receive international support," said government spokesman Mark Regev.
For its part, Hamas said it would not accept a truce deal unless it includes an end to the Israeli blockade of Gaza -- something Israel says it is not willing to do. Israel and Egypt have maintained a stiff economic embargo on Gaza since the Hamas takeover.
Typical, like the US not allowing others to have nukes, but only them... hypocrites. I know that they think they're more peaceful, everyone thinks that he has the right to "defend" his own people.
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Moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted January 09, 2009 02:39 PM |
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Quote:
I'd still rather give up my home than die. Or get really injured.
And I know that either option is very bad for the people living there, but its not like Hamas isn't launching stuff into Israel also.
And Hamas certainly isn't calling people beforehand.
So therefor it's okay that Israel kills over thousands of civilians and a few Hamas members to retaliate against needle pricks ?
Mind you, I'm not saying Hamas is an angel here. I think both sides are utter morons. But that's just me.
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted January 09, 2009 03:24 PM |
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Quote:
In the most recent Israel-Palestinian war, before airstrikes, the Israeli military calls up people living in the areas to be bombed and tells them to leave the area before the airstrike. Many deaths result from Palestinians refusing to leave (don't know if this has already been said, didn't read the whole thread).
Question: What happen in the area after the bomings, do the Isreal claim it or?
Edit: both sides are far into grey instead of black/white, but at the moment i think hamash is the lesser evil.
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted January 09, 2009 03:34 PM |
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The bombing, shelling and shooting will stop one day. The electricity and water will be restored. And the windows of the Mousa family's flat, every one of them blown out by Israeli air force strikes on the Palestinian president's palace next door, will be replaced.
But the trauma of the four Mousa children, aged three to nine years old, will not so easily be erased. For nearly two weeks now they have endured a constant barrage of shells from navy ships they can see through the plastic now covering the windows of their seafront flat in Gaza city, as well as the air force strikes on buildings nearby.
"The children scream and cry when there's shelling. It goes on all night," said their father, Raed, 35. "Every night, all night. The building shakes. We moved into the kitchen and sleep there. It's the safest place in the house. But my children are very scared, their faces turn yellow. The sound of the guns is very loud. We try to keep them busy playing and with their toys."
Their mother, Ahlan, is pregnant. "I look at them at night when they are sleeping and they are dreaming bad dreams. Safud [aged four] jumps from her bed screaming and crying," she said. "All the time they are shelling. It's terrifying. I don't know what to tell the children. I say the sound is loud but it is still far away. But I can see they are afraid and that makes me afraid."
That trauma may last a lifetime, with devastating consequences for Palestinian society, according to psychologists who have studied the impact of two decades of bloody conflict in the Gaza strip on children who have grown up under army watchtowers, dodging bullets, seeing classmates shot as they sat at the next desk, watching tanks and bulldozers destroy thousands of homes.
Thabet, Gaza's leading child psychiatrist, says the impact of trauma on older children combines with other experiences to push them to extremes. "Children see their parents killed in front of them. What do you expect?"
Guardian.uk
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted January 09, 2009 05:12 PM |
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Where comes hate from?
Israelis hate Germans for 60 years now, how many years will the Palistinians hate the Israelis?
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This thread is pages long: 
